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Same Ol' Same Ol'?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by ThatTrueLight, Mar 17, 2015.

  1. mxyzpt1k

    mxyzpt1k Newbie

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    (First Officially Occurrence of Title Division in the Gospel relative to Crucifixion)
    Title: "Head of the Priesthood" given to Aaron
    Title: "Head of the Tribes" given to Judah

    NUMBERS 3:6 Bring the tribe of Levi near, and present them before Aaron the priest, that they may minister unto him.
    MARK 15:18 And began to salute him, Hail, King of the Jews!
    MARK 15:19 And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing [their] knees worshipped him.
    ROMANS 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
    ROMANS 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
    ROMANS 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.
    ACTS 5:37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, [even] as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
    ACTS 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
    ACTS 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
    ..................
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    God never allowed "Judah" to rule over the nations before in the Gospel. Because "Judah" is not a "Priesthood Tribe", it has strong ties to the "Other Universe" like "Manasseh", but unlike Manasseh which has "Lost its Identity, in order to become a Priesthood Tribe". "Judah, as not Lost its Identity", for what this represents hyperdimensionally. Before this division, the "Head of the Tribes, was always the Head of the Priesthood". In the bible Chronology of Pertinent Tribe relations, these carried the "Dual Titles" in order: "Dan, Manasseh, Levite, Ephraim, Aaron (with Peter's Catching of the Fish, or his Baptism), Aaron (when Thompson put his finger in Christ's Body after the Crucifixion), FINALLY with Joseph he holds the "Dual Title" that is why the Antichrist is allowed to confirm the covenant.

    The "Dual Title" cannot be held by Judah, Its not Prieshood Tribe. ... ... The "Dual Title" is also not held by Aaron. These Tribes represent Nations the Antichrist will come to overthrow. (Deu. 34:1-3 is the Closest we come in the Gospel of God naming this directly as Separatist Inheritors* for a new earth of their own, now there's a whole bunch of language used, Naphtali is substitued for Aaron because it must repent to receive anything, in the least recieve judah)

    Manasseh = Gomorrah, taken out of "Sodom and Gomorrah in Rev." (Half Tribe)
    Ephraim = Key of David in Rev. , (I KINGS 11:32 - Hebrews in Mosaic Covenant)
    Judah = Zion (PSALMS 48:11 - The Harlot in Rev.)
    Aaron = Morning Star in rev.(Acts 13:8 - 9 called to repent in the presence of Star Wormwood)

    (Also in Man's Footprint, Benjamin and Joseph, until Benjamin is taken and the 3 Days of Darkness beings, along with the separatist inheritors outside of Judah ... Joseph is also in Man's Footprint, or has developed there since David ... SEVEN ONLY or Seven Candlesticks Only ... 4 of which have genetic relationships, but have been divided accordingly ... Manasseh and Judah having multiple genetic lines tied to them, more so the Aaron which has one genetic group and a congregation) (Benjamin the "Root of David" and Joseph the "Lion of Judah", Joseph is not a Priesthood Tribe at the moment, just Benjamin is, but Joseph will be considered a Priesthood Tribe when the Antichrist reigns over Judah for 150 Days ... this change does not take place until the Antichrist's 12,000 Days of Joseph are expired and the 3 Days of Darkness begins)

    When the Dead Bodies are Thrown out in Revelation. God is revisiting the Judgment program with Aaron, to call Aaron to Repent accordingly. Now when the bodies of the saints are taken up in revelation, God will begin to judge what remains of Judah for 150 days. ... ... The Hebrews are simply gone before the 150 days, thus Judaism is also gone. (When Ephraim ruled as the Head of the Priesthood and the Tribes, God has national Isreal or Jerusalem in view from David's reinstatment of them in Jerusalem to Christ's conviction of them ... since that time, God has had the Nations of the Earth in view under the witnessing of Aaron the Priest, the next tribe to have the Title of "Head of the Priesthood")

    When the 3 Days of Darkness begins, and Benjamin is removed from "Man's Foot Print" ... God at this same time, resolves Judah, and puts an end to the Nations. So that only 1 Nations under Zion, will remain, so far, or as the gospel intends that is the USA.

    (1 Samuel 15:16-17, Saul is told that he is the "Head of the Tribes", this division is impossible because Christ did not serve as a Levite to Baptize Aaron in order to divide the titles at the Crucifixion, although Christ came as a representative of Ephraim to remove it from the Priesthood and place it into Judah, thus reaffirming the "Mosaic Covenant with the Jewish People ... ... Joseph entered into "Man's Foot Print" largely associated with Benjamin (the consolidation of the heavenly tribes not present in "Man's Foot Print), because of this ... Saul was told that information to identified with this change, but Saul feed this as an excuse to war with David because of his sin) (EDIT: In short, God did not desire the sons of man to have authority over the nations directly since the division of the "Titles", but all the SAME, God at some point intends the Antichrist to reign over Judah, that is over zion)
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  2. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Part of the descendants of Jacob are blind concerning the identity of Christ as their Messiah. They are the branches broken off of faithful Israel, because they have rejected Christ. They can be grafted back in by accepting Christ.

    The election are those known before the foundation of the world by the Father, who would accept Christ as their Messiah. They like the Apostle Paul, are the cultivated Olive tree of faithful Israel, just like those who did not bow the knee to Baal during the time of Elijah.

    This process will continue until Christ returns and the last gentile is grafted into the Olive tree of faithful Israel.

    If you do not like a direct answer to the question, then just pretend again that the space above this sentence is blank.
     
  3. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    What you fail to see is that the condition of repentance on their part is future from the fulness of the Gentiles - because "GOD HATH given them a spirit OF SLUMBER" - in other words HE HAS GIVEN them that, that THEY should NOT see, AND ears THAT [purpose or intent] THEY should NOT hear; UNTO THIS DAY, Rom. 11:8.

    In this, Rom. 11:25 is relating Rom. 11:23's condition is future from the fulness of the Gentiles.

    At some point after that HE will remove said spirit of slumber.

    What you fail to see is that that is a distinction as to Israel AS A NATION.

    It does NOT apply to INDIVIDUAL Jews. The believing remnant were, for example, individuals as outcasts of that nation AS A COLLECTIVE.

    This is what throws you and yours off on all the various passages - failure to see that Rom. 11:23's condition is not only NATIONAL but AN IMPOSSIBILITY UNTIL sometime AFTER the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, THUS, this business about "ALL Israel," Paul follows with there...

    Thus, our present age of a GENTILE salvation.

    This is what was concluded in Acts 15 AFTER their Gal. 2:7-9 meeting with the Apostle OF THE GENTILES.

    They "added NOTHING unto" his understanding. IN CONTRAST, "they percieved" or understood this GENTILE change.

    In that same chapter, he relates having to remind Peter in front of even Barnabus, who should have known better, that Jews were now "sinners of the Gentiles" in God's eyes.

    In other words, the NATIONAL distinction having been TEMPORARILY set aside until "after this" GENTILE distinction, a Jew had to basically do what Paul had had to - "count but dung" that "righteousness which is of the Law," and instead, simply trust in "the faith of Christ."

    What's this about "the faith of Christ"?

    It is the issue of HIS faithFULLNESS - "Who loved me, and gave HIMSELF FOR me," Gal. 2:20.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  4. KrAZeD

    KrAZeD Newbie

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    well said and outlined their sir.
     
  5. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    Danoh wrote:
    until "after this" GENTILE distinction,

    That's just it. There aren't any more distinctions. You've read Rom 11:25 but not v30. And 30 is not informing how you/Danoh see v 25, 26.

    It is not as though the two ages are equal. This is the age of maturity; the Judaism was the age of childhood. Gal 3-4. This is why the present is called the fulness of times or of the ages (Corinthians, Hebrews, Ephesians). It was known this would come about in pre-Christian Judaism (what we now call the prophetic scriptures), but they got it all tangled with the existing temple as such, as did the disciples in Mt24:1.
     
  6. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    ie, people need to realize the existing misconception built-in to the disciples question, and then see if the misconception was corrected there.
     
  7. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    No, that is you reading the Mystery "hid in God" UNTIL Paul into what was Prophesied.

    Fact is Paul is not only noting a distinction , but noting two of them!

    How an individual Jew could avail himself of this Gentile salvation in this Mystery age.

    AND how "ALL Israel" will one day be able to avail itself ONCE MORE of what GOD promised HIMSELF as to Jacob; as to his MULTIPLIED seed via Jacob's singular Seed, Acts 3:19-26.

    BOTH promises - this one "which now is" and that "to come" are based on that singular Seed.

    You are just confusing the so called "great commission" which was based on that "which God HATH spoken by the mouth of ALL His holy prophets SINCE the world began," Acts 3:21, with this Gentile commission "which FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD HATH BEEN HID IN GOD TO THE INTENT - REPEAT - TO THE INTENT - THAT NOW, etc. Eph. 3:9, 10.

    Its why Peter found himself confused in Acts 10.

    ISRAEL was not yet redeemed FIRST - as IS prophesied WILL happen per "MY Covenant unto THEM" and yet, here he was, a sound, Law keeping Messianic Jew - in fact, the head of THAT NATION'S TWELVE APOSTLES, being sent to "keep company with one of another nation" BEFORE ISRAEL was redeemed BACK unto God.

    Only later did they learn, his mouth [word] would be used of God to bridge things between that now on hold and that new - the Mystery - its OWN, DISTINCT Apostle - OF THE GENTILES - being the one whom the Lord would reveal "this Mystery" TO and THROUGH.

    But, again, you and yours won't even receive this word with all readiness of mind, let alone, search the Scriptures daily whether those things were so, Acts 17:11.

    No thanks, until you and yours prove otherwise, I think I'll stick with the "Things That Differ."

    Enjoy your Sunday, Interplanner.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  8. ThatTrueLight

    ThatTrueLight John 1:9

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    LOL.. until doesn't actually mean until. Jerusalem isn't really Jerusalem. The Deliverer coming from Sion to turn ungodliness from Jacob is just a nice expression.

    Isn't this the I actually do believe the bible section of the forum? :)
     
  9. ThatTrueLight

    ThatTrueLight John 1:9

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    Anyway, the topic is really asking if the church of God is the same OLD thing as Israel was in the OT?

    OR is it NEW?
     
  10. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    Personally, I don't care for the label "the church" as a reference only to "the Body of Christ."

    Scripture's Own distinction is between Israel as a "church" congregation, or assembly of people set apart unto God, and the Body as a "church" assembly of people set apart unto God.

    This is "the household of faith."

    This is "the whole family of God in EARTH and HEAVEN."

    That is what will one day lead to "the DISPENSATION OF the fullness of TIMES" - that kingdom FULNESS when "cometh the end, when" the Son "shall have delivered up the kingdom TO GOD, even the Father; WHEN..."

    "WHEN He SHALL HAVE put down ALL rule and ALL authority AND power. FOR HE MUST reign" - "all power in heaven and earth is given unto Me; go ye THEREFORE" - TIL HE HATH put ALL enemies under HIS Feet... FOR HE HATH put ALL THINGS" - ALL Authority - under His Feet" that "ALL THINGS" - ALL reign - "SHALL BE subdued unto Him."

    I Cor. 15 and Col. 1 shedding light on the actual sense of Matt. 28's "all power... is given unto to me..." at the same time that Rom. 9-11; Acts 15; Gal. 2, reveal Israel's commission as to THE EARTH was put on hold.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, like all other manmade doctrines, is built upon a false narrative through the human manipulation of God's Word.

    These problems are easy to see and point out to those who have eyes to see.

    However, they are rejected by those which have let the "system" intertwine itself into their flesh so deep that their pride cannot allow it's removal.
    It is like a fishhook to some people.
    Attempting to remove the hook is painful and they do not know how to cut off the barb.
    Some would try to hurt you if you tried to help them remove the hook.


    1. There is no such thing as "our present age of GENTILE salvation".

    Salvation is now equally available to Jews and Gentiles alike.
    God is not now a respecter of persons.


    2. There has never been any such thing as "National Salvation".

    Many of those who were saved from the Egyptian army during the Exodus, were killed by God during Korah's rebellion.

    Salvation has always been on an individual basis, through faith.

    David was condemned to hell by the Law.
    He was saved by Grace when he begged for mercy.
    No animal sacrifice could cover his sin.

    3. If the Jews have been collectively blinded at the present time, then none of them would now be coming to salvation.

    Since Jewish Christians have participated in Bible study within my home, we know some of them are being grafted back into the olive tree through faith in Christ.

    This is the "so" manner of their salvation in Romans 11:26, which is perverted to "then" by most Dispensationalists.

    4. There is no need for a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.

    The Jews need Jesus, who is the true temple of God, instead of a building made of stone with renewed animal sacrifices.


    5. There is only one Gospel.

    It is the same to the Jews and the Gentiles.

    6. All Christians are Abraham's Seed, adopted through faith in the One Seed.


    Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

    Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    .
     
  12. ThatTrueLight

    ThatTrueLight John 1:9

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    And until doesn't mean until, Jerusalem isn't Jerusalem, and the Deliverer coming from Sion to turn ungodliness from Jacob is a nice expression.

    Israel in the news has nothing to do with anything and everything is fine 'cause the church is now Spiritual Israel.
     
  13. ThatTrueLight

    ThatTrueLight John 1:9

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    And of course there's nothing NEW here, same OLD thing as in the OT.

    And this is already the kingdom of God..
     
  14. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    As fellow believers of Jewish descent WHO ARE ALSO MID-ACTS have noted to me in the past - "these Replacement theology people actually conclude we are saying Jews are not being saved during this Gentile salvation!"

    What did you do in your home, BAB2, go over to the insistence of some that only those who practice or take on the Jewish identity are right with God?

    Are you really that spiritually naive that you can not see this Gentile salvation?

    Don't tell me you are keeping Sabbath and all the rest of their ON HOLD identity...

    No wonder you so easily buy into the rants of one or another Adventist or a Messianic "because he is a Jew."

    You constantly harp on "so and so is a Jew, so he knows" - as if that is some sort of an advantage in this age of their NATIONAL, albeit TEMPORARY disfavor before God as no better off then the Gentiles.

    Yours is the mark of dissimulation throughout.

    Yours is the mark of one heck of a double minded confusion.
     
  15. ThatTrueLight

    ThatTrueLight John 1:9

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    I can agree with this completely and also see (clearly) a huge difference between Israel under the OT Law of Moses as compared to the body of Christ in the NEW.

    Isn't that why it is called NEW?

    Or is it the same OLD thing?
     
  16. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    You're completely wrong in this assertion Danoh! I will admit that there are those who say the church replaced Israel, but they are saying it in ignorance or errant teaching.

    Romans 11 is telling us that Israel and the church are grafted together and are the "Israel of God". The idea of "replacement theology is equally error.

    Why would Paul assert this in Ephesians 2:11-13:
    11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands—
    12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
    13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.


    I'll leave you with that because it's pretty much makes the point! Paul further said at Ephesians 2:19-22:
    19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,
    20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
    21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,
    22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.


    This is why your Mid-Acts perspective is loaded error! It ignores that which scripture clearly declares! It's down right heretical at some points...and you're going completely contrary to scripture Danoh...it's that simple!

    The is ONE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, and it offers salvation to everyone the same way. You either come to Christ as our GREAT HIGH PREIST...or don't come at all.

    Romans 10:11-13:
    11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
    12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
    13 for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”


    Would you (or anyone else for that matter), please show where the difference is? Even though scripture CONSISTENTLY says there is NO difference.

    Gentiles get saved the same way Jews get saved...THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST!
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2015
  17. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    More than one Gospel???

    Lost rewards for those who do not "Rightly Divide" ???

    Earthly people and heavenly people???



    Who are Jews And Gentiles Today ? - Pastor Ron Knight

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b3wqsAKoUo


    .
     
  18. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    The replacement error is found in Gal 3:17: it was when Judaism thought the Law voided or took the place of the Promise.
     
  19. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    Actually it's in Acts 15 Inter. It was the reason for the Jerusalem Council...Acts 15:1:
    Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

    The instance in Galatians is the fact that after the Jerusalem Council, the Judaizers would follow Paul everywhere perverting the gospel with works.

    You notice after that in Acts 16 Paul goes to Galatia and also receives the Macedonian vision.
     
  20. Bible2

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    That's right.

    But note that Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 nonetheless show that there will be a 3rd Jewish temple in the earthly Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple will coexist with the church like the 2nd temple did (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), and like the temple building in heaven does (Revelation 11:19). The 3rd temple could be built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount by the ultra-Orthodox Jews, after they (or great earthquakes) clear the site by destroying the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque. Shortly after they build the temple, the Antichrist could attack and defeat them, and a false Messiah leading them (Daniel 11:22).

    Then the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:23a), permitting them to keep the temple, and to continue to (mistakenly) perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of it, for at least 7 more years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims, so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. The ultra-Orthodox Jews could grudgingly agree to this, if the only other option is for them to lose the temple entirely. They could then build a high wall between the temple and the mosque, in order to keep the temple from being "defiled".

    But then, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

    At the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the world's armies will pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). And at the 2nd coming, there will be tremendous earth changes in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all of Jerusalem's structures, including the 3rd temple and the Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall), being broken down so that not one stone will be left on another (Luke 19:44, Matthew 24:2). Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4). He will also build a 4th temple there (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). It will serve a similar function for the church during the future millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6) as the 2nd temple served for the church in the 1st century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), and as the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) serves for those in heaven (Revelation 7:15).
     
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