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Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by LilyLamb, Jul 2, 2002.

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  1. LilyLamb

    LilyLamb The Lord is My Shepherd


    Sorry, I couldn't find the thread - maybe it was deleted??  Could you please address the question of "what must I do/believe to be saved?  An official teaching of the Church would be appreciated ....

    I know that Catholics cannot participate in "all" seven sacraments .... but what part do they play in the act of salvation??  There are those who think that the Catholic church teaches that baptism "saves" ... but I don't see where the church teaches that ...

    For those of you who are reading this that are NOT Catholic, please refrain from posting a view that is not of the Catholic church and turning this into a debate (strong hint going out to those who drop in sarcastic one-liners and run).

    Thank you ...
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  2. pax

    pax Veteran

    Here's the official church teaching found in the catechism.

    I will try to summarize.  The Catholic Church teaches that if you die in a state of grace (no mortal or venial sin) you go straight to heaven.  If you die with venial sin, you go to Purgatory, if you die in mortal sin, you go to hell.  The Catechism goes into more detail, but I think what I just mentioned are the basics.

  3. KC Catholic

    KC Catholic Everybody's gone surfin'...Surfin' U.S.A

    And remember, we are saved by that grace alone. You can't work your way to heaven.

    Of course that good works are a natural outflow of the faith in that grace the Christ saves us by.

  4. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

    KC that's what I believe. But I thought it was "faith AND works". Please clarify. :)
  5. Hoonbaba

    Hoonbaba Catholic Preterist

    Hi PrinceJeff,

    Grace, faith and works are different words =)

    I guess I'll give my explanation:

    faith and works is the result of God's grace =)

    Those who are truly in Christ not only believe in God (faith), but they live for God (works).  The 'fruit' of the Christian is the works they do (John 15:5, John 15:8).  No fruit means, they'll be cut off (John 15:2)

    Hope that helps =)

  6. Hoonbaba

    Hoonbaba Catholic Preterist

    Hi LilyLamb

    I'm not Catholic, but I'm considering becoming Catholic =P Anyway, here's my thoughts on salvation:

    1) Believe the essentials: Christ's death, resurrection on 3rd day, died for our sins, etc (John 3:16, 1 Cor 15:14, 1 Cor 15:3, Heb 9:15)

    2) Remain in Christ (John 15:1-17)

    3) Get baptized

    Why?  I'll give several reasons:

    1) Jesus himself was baptized (Matt 3:16)

    2) Believers are identified in Christ's death and resurrection, through baptism (Rom 6:3-6).

    3) 1 Pet 3:21 talks about 'baptism which saves', which makes it clear that baptism does save.

    4) John 3:5 makes it clear that, 'no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit'. 

    5) In Matt 28:19, Jesus says to his disciples, 'go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit'. 

    A friend of mine (who is also not a Catholic) once sent me an email about the significance of baptism.  I think it'll be useful:


    Can one read the book of Acts without noticing the primary importance of
    baptism to the gospel message in every case?  In every case that the
    gospel is preached the required response is BAPTISM INTO CHRIST:

    Acts 2:37-38,41
    Men and bretheren, what shall we do?  Peter said to them, "Repent, and
    each of you BE BAPTIZED in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness
    of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.  So
    then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there
    were added about three thousand souls.

    Acts 8:12-13
    But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom
    of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being BAPTIZED, men and
    women alike.  Even Simon himself believed; and after being BAPTIZED...


    Acts 8:35-38
    Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture HE
    PREACHED JESUS TO HIM.  As they went along the road they came to some
    water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water!  WHAT PREVENTS ME FROM BEING
    BAPTIZED?"  And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you
    may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son
    of God."  And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down
    into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he BAPTIZED him.

    PAUL is baptized immediately:
    Acts 9:18
    And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he
    regained his sight, and he got up and was BAPTIZED;

    Acts 10:47-48
    "Surely no one can refuse THE WATER FOR THESE TO BE BAPTIZED who have
    received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"  And HE ORDERED THEM
    TO BE BAPTIZED in the name of Jesus Christ.

    Acts 16:15 (Lydia of Thyatira)
    And when she and her household had been BAPTIZED,

    Acts 16:33
    And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds,
    and IMMEDIATELY HE WAS BAPTIZED, he and all his household.

    Acts 18:8
    Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his
    household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard WERE BELIEVING

    READ ALL OF ACTS 18:24-19:7 (the men had John's Baptism but not Christ's
    yet, so they immediately got baptized into Christ)

    Acts 22:16
    'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins,
    calling on His name.'

    However, one might be quick to ask:  Well if someone believes in the essentials (Christ's death, resurrection, etc), and decides to follow Christ, are they saved if they don't get baptized?

    I think VOW may've answered this earlier.  There are 3 possible answers to that:

    1)  If a new believer didn't have the opportunity for baptism, then he'll go to heaven (just like the thief who died next to Jesus).  God seems to always have his exceptions.  The Church teaches this as Baptism of Desire.

    2)  A similar circumstance is if a new believer was martyred for Christ and wasn't baptized, the Church calls this Baptism of Blood

    3)  But if a believer REFUSES to get baptized, I think it says a lot about the believer's heart-that he doesn't want to identify himself with Christ (Rom 3:3-6), which really makes me wonder:  Is he/she a believer at all?

    Hope that helps! =)

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