Salvation: Theosis, Assurance of Salvation, Once Saved Always Saved, Predestination?

All4Christ

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What is your perspective of salvation as a Traditional Christian? Most of us believe baptism and faith to be essential. A confession of faith is important as well. Yet, even among Traditional Christians, there are many perspectives on how we are saved. I'm interested in comparing and contrasting our beliefs on the subject.

Among Orthodox Christians, we often say that we have been saved, we are being saved, and God willing, should we not fall away from the faith, we will be saved when we finish the good race. We believe an essential part of salvation is the transformation of our life to unify with God and become more like Him. This is somewhat similar to how I viewed sanctification before I became Orthodox. I didn't believe in Once Saved Always Saved, so it was somewhat similar in that we could be "saved", yet not be "saved" when we leave this world if we do not follow Christ to the end.

Could you explain your tradition's view on salvation, including concepts like theosis (if you believe in that), sanctification, justification, assurance of salvation, or predestination? We all have similarities, and certainly we have differences. Many differences may be due to differences in terminology, so I'm curious to understand your perspectives.

Please remember the Statement of Purpose. This is meant to be a topical discussion on Traditional Christianity, not an attack on other traditions' beliefs.
 

Church2u2

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I believe that once we have salvation we can still be tempted by the things of the flesh and if we fall weak to temptations we can backslide away from the Lord and end up with a mindset that disobedience is okay.I think that's called a "reprobated" mind?? So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I believe we can lose our salvation.
 
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thecolorsblend

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We can have a confident assurance of salvation. But this notion of Eternal Security relies on the proposition that we can assent to the faith on Monday and then do whatever sinful thing we want on Tuesday with impunity. Does one's personal conduct matter to one's salvation? I have to say that it does.
 
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Paul Yohannan

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The Orthodox monastic tradition (not neccessarily applicable to laity) describes Salvation as being something that whereas in the early days was attained with ease by several monks, would in later days be attained by great difficulty only by a few (see The Arena of St. Ignatius Brinachaninov, which is a formiddable and unnerving work but one rather potently true).
 
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mark kennedy

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What is your perspective of salvation as a Traditional Christian? Most of us believe baptism and faith to be essential. A confession of faith is important as well. Yet, even among Traditional Christians, there are many perspectives on how we are saved. I'm interested in comparing and contrasting our beliefs on the subject.

Among Orthodox Christians, we often say that we have been saved, we are being saved, and God willing, should we not fall away from the faith, we will be saved when we finish the good race. We believe an essential part of salvation is the transformation of our life to unify with God and become more like Him. This is somewhat similar to how I viewed sanctification before I became Orthodox. I didn't believe in Once Saved Always Saved, so it was somewhat similar in that we could be "saved", yet not be "saved" when we leave this world if we do not follow Christ to the end.

Could you explain your tradition's view on salvation, including concepts like theosis (if you believe in that), sanctification, justification, assurance of salvation, or predestination? We all have similarities, and certainly we have differences. Many differences may be due to differences in terminology, so I'm curious to understand your perspectives.

Please remember the Statement of Purpose. This is meant to be a topical discussion on Traditional Christianity, not an attack on other traditions' beliefs.
Jesus made it clear, we must be born again. What happens is you hear the gospel, believe and receive the Holy Spirit of promise. This is justification by grace through faith and it begins the sanctification process not complete until the resurrection. Predestination isn't about who gets saved, it's about how. God purposed before the foundation of the world that all who would be saved would be conformed to the image of Christ, perfectly righteous and holy. It's described as seed, as long as the devil doesn't steal it away from unbelief, it doesn't wither from the heat of the sun because of a shallow hard heart. As long as the cares of this life and the deceitfulness of riches doesn't chock it out, it will mature and bear fruit. That is the most important tradition in the church, the simplicity of the gospel.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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KawaiiChristianGal

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I believe only God knows the heart of each and every individual but He does leave us clues in how to tell the sheep from the goats, He said you shall know them by their fruits and the love they have for one another. As for Salvation well to me it starts by repenting and admitting one is in need of a Saviour, calling upon the Lord Jesus Christ, and well every believe SHOULD get baptized in both water and fire, and then again we should try and live life to the best of our abilities by not remaining in sinful lifestyles. Salvation to me isn't a one time and done sort of thing, it's a continual process.
 
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What is your perspective of salvation as a Traditional Christian? Most of us believe baptism and faith to be essential. A confession of faith is important as well. Yet, even among Traditional Christians, there are many perspectives on how we are saved. I'm interested in comparing and contrasting our beliefs on the subject.

Among Orthodox Christians, we often say that we have been saved, we are being saved, and God willing, should we not fall away from the faith, we will be saved when we finish the good race. We believe an essential part of salvation is the transformation of our life to unify with God and become more like Him. This is somewhat similar to how I viewed sanctification before I became Orthodox. I didn't believe in Once Saved Always Saved, so it was somewhat similar in that we could be "saved", yet not be "saved" when we leave this world if we do not follow Christ to the end.

Could you explain your tradition's view on salvation, including concepts like theosis (if you believe in that), sanctification, justification, assurance of salvation, or predestination? We all have similarities, and certainly we have differences. Many differences may be due to differences in terminology, so I'm curious to understand your perspectives.

Please remember the Statement of Purpose. This is meant to be a topical discussion on Traditional Christianity, not an attack on other traditions' beliefs.

I believe what the Bible has to say about salvation.
  1. "...repent and believe the gospel." Mark 1:15
  2. "...whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16
  3. Romans 10:9-10: 9) If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10) For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by openly declaring your faith that you are saved.
Faith is essential (Ephesians 2:8) and God gives everyone a measure of faith (Romans 12:3). Baptism, by immersion, is an act of obedience (Matthew 28:19) whereby we publicly identify with Jesus Christ (Romans 6:3-5) but it is not a requirement of salvation. Salvation is by faith, not by faith and something that we do (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:28-30). The only 'work' of salvation is to believe in Jesus (John 6:29).
 
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seeking.IAM

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I believe that God is God, and therefore God may save whom God will. I believe there are no absolute pre-requisites for salvation (e.g. baptism). The example for this is Luke 23:39-43, when Jesus said to the criminal on the cross: "Truly I tell you today you will be with me in Paradise." Baptism wasn't a factor.

I do not believe OSAS. I believe when a person turns their back on God, God may turn His back on them.
“Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven." Matthew 10: 32-33
Sometimes I think salvation is over-emphasized as if Christians have their emphasis on the wrong syllable. By that I mean, that I see salvation as not being the goal, but as being the prize for having attained the goal. For me, the goal is being a faithful and obedient disciple, and living my life in The Way, including loving the Lord my God with all my heart and with all my soul and with all my mind and loving my neighbor as myself. Sort of like do you play football for the love of the game or for the participation trophy at the end?




 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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What is your perspective of salvation as a Traditional Christian? Most of us believe baptism and faith to be essential. A confession of faith is important as well. Yet, even among Traditional Christians, there are many perspectives on how we are saved. I'm interested in comparing and contrasting our beliefs on the subject.

Among Orthodox Christians, we often say that we have been saved, we are being saved, and God willing, should we not fall away from the faith, we will be saved when we finish the good race. We believe an essential part of salvation is the transformation of our life to unify with God and become more like Him. This is somewhat similar to how I viewed sanctification before I became Orthodox. I didn't believe in Once Saved Always Saved, so it was somewhat similar in that we could be "saved", yet not be "saved" when we leave this world if we do not follow Christ to the end.

Could you explain your tradition's view on salvation, including concepts like theosis (if you believe in that), sanctification, justification, assurance of salvation, or predestination? We all have similarities, and certainly we have differences. Many differences may be due to differences in terminology, so I'm curious to understand your perspectives.

Please remember the Statement of Purpose. This is meant to be a topical discussion on Traditional Christianity, not an attack on other traditions' beliefs.

Baptism is necessary, but not absolutely necessary; faith is. In Ephesians 2:8-9 we read: "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast."

We are predestined for salvation since creation. We are all God's children, and He is our Father, and He desires our devotion, obedience and love; yet like the Prodigal Son, free will and the stain of original sin cause us to rebel. It i by our willfulness that we can only turn against God. It is by the leading of the Holy Spirit that we overcome this willfulness and are lead to faith. Martin Luther explains this in his explanation of the third article of the Apostles Creed:
The Third Article.

Of Sanctification.

I believe in the Holy Ghost; one holy (Christian) catholic Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.

What does this mean?--Answer.

I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Ghost has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith; even as He calls, gathers, enlightens, and sanctifies the whole Christian Church on earth, and keeps it with Jesus Christ in the one true faith; in which Christian Church He forgives daily and richly all sins to me and all believers, and at the last day will raise up me and all the dead, and will give to me and to all believers in Christ everlasting life. This is most certainly true.
 
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~Anastasia~

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We believe that baptism is necessary - but that does not limit God. We recognize the baptism of desire (if one desires to be Christ's but has not had the opportunity to be baptized) and the baptism of blood (those who died as martyrs for the sake of Christ, if not already baptized, are essentially baptized in their own blood).

What it comes down to, yes, we believe that as the Scriptures say, "baptism now saves you" and so is regenerative - but that does not limit the salvation of God.

He is not looking for excuses to condemn us. Rather, He uses every means possible to save us, if we but allow Him to do so.
 
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~Anastasia~

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You actually caught something that was very important to me, and a radical shift from how I grew up understanding God, as opposed to how I finally came to really know Him. And probably the biggest factor involved in my becoming Orthodox from a Protestant (evangelical) upbringing.

I do believe it is VERY true, and at the center of the heart of God. Thank you.

And glory to God!
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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We believe that baptism is necessary - but that does not limit God. We recognize the baptism of desire (if one desires to be Christ's but has not had the opportunity to be baptized) and the baptism of blood (those who died as martyrs for the sake of Christ, if not already baptized, are essentially baptized in their own blood).

What it comes down to, yes, we believe that as the Scriptures say, "baptism now saves you" and so is regenerative - but that does not limit the salvation of God.

He is not looking for excuses to condemn us. Rather, He uses every means possible to save us, if we but allow Him to do so.


Amen indeed!!!
 
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ladodgers6

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What is your perspective of salvation as a Traditional Christian? Most of us believe baptism and faith to be essential. A confession of faith is important as well. Yet, even among Traditional Christians, there are many perspectives on how we are saved. I'm interested in comparing and contrasting our beliefs on the subject.

Among Orthodox Christians, we often say that we have been saved, we are being saved, and God willing, should we not fall away from the faith, we will be saved when we finish the good race. We believe an essential part of salvation is the transformation of our life to unify with God and become more like Him. This is somewhat similar to how I viewed sanctification before I became Orthodox. I didn't believe in Once Saved Always Saved, so it was somewhat similar in that we could be "saved", yet not be "saved" when we leave this world if we do not follow Christ to the end.

Could you explain your tradition's view on salvation, including concepts like theosis (if you believe in that), sanctification, justification, assurance of salvation, or predestination? We all have similarities, and certainly we have differences. Many differences may be due to differences in terminology, so I'm curious to understand your perspectives.

Please remember the Statement of Purpose. This is meant to be a topical discussion on Traditional Christianity, not an attack on other traditions' beliefs.

I appreciate this approach, that each religion can gather to discuss theology without hate, but with love. I am a convinced Calvinist for many years now. Prior to that I was a Mormon, Seventhday, JW, Pentecostal, Arminian, and Roman Catholic. This was when I was very young and living with my Mother. It was like she was searching for something. Anyway I became a convinced Calvinist (not a Hyper-Calvinist) when a Calvinist friend of mine challenge why I believe what I believe. And I could not answer his question directly, because in my experience in those days. Christians were not studying or asking question in respect to knowing God's word, but receiving what was told to us as truth. He shared Calvinism with me, and after hearing it. I replied that's not in the Bible. It sounded unfair to me. So one day I set out to prove Calvinism false through God's word. And to my amazement everything that Calvinism taught I found in the Bible. So I kept studying it day and night, consumed to seek the truth, I finally found the doctrines of Grace, and finally heard the Gospel of Christ that Paul preached. And I have been a convinced Calvinist ever since.

I recently came across "THEOSIS" from a friend my met on this forum. Which I never heard that term before; "THEOSIS". And I have been studying it lastly to get a good understanding of it. As I have been studying it, I have come to some conclusions, that it sounds very close to Sanctification, and perseverance of the Saints and Union with Christ. But before I post my findings I want to do more homework.

The Traditional view also believes that transformation is a essential part of salvation. We also believe in the Redemption of sinners, and Christ propitiating the righteous judgement and wrath of God against all law-breakers and wickedness. This sanction of punishment was rendered when the first Adam breached the Covenant of Works, that demanded Perfect Obedience, but instead disobeyed God, and bought sin, death, and condemnation on us all, because all have sinned. And Christ speaks a lot of the wicked being judged for their sins and being cast into the lake of fire. The EOC does not believe in God's judgement against sin. But that we just die. There is no hell or punishment for sin. So that's a major difference between Traditional vs EOC is the doctrine of Original Sin. And the punishment for sin. As far as I know, the traditional view, makes much of our Fallen condition before a Holy God. And the consequences or punishment for sin.

Justification & Sanctification in the Traditional view, teach that they are distinct from one another, but not inseparable. Meaning that when a sinner is Justified in Christ through Faith, the good works/obedience/piety flow from it. Once the sinner is in Christ, in the living vine, that produce good fruit. Justification is one of my favorite topics because it is good works for sinners.

So one of the most essential doctrines in the Traditional View is the Distinction Between Law & Gospel In Relation to Justification By Faith Alone. How a sinner justified before a Holy God?

Understanding the difference between justification and sanctification can be as important as understanding the difference between salvation and damnation. Rightly dividing between the two is of crucial importance. When you understand what they are, you can then draw a line in the sand and say, "This is what saves. This is not what saves."

Justification is the work of God where the righteousness of Jesus is reckoned to the sinner, so the sinner is declared by God as being righteous under the Law (Rom. 4:3; 5:1,9; Gal. 2:16; 3:11). This righteousness is not earned or retained by any effort of the saved. Justification is an instantaneous occurrence with the result being eternal life. It is based completely and solely upon Jesus' sacrifice on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24) and is received by faith alone (Eph. 2:8-9). No works are necessary whatsoever to obtain justification. Otherwise, it is not a gift (Rom. 6:23). Therefore, we are justified by faith (Romans 5:1).

Sanctification is the process of being set apart for God's work and being conformed to the image of Christ. This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it is still God working in the believer to produce more of a godly character and life in the person who has already been justified (Phil. 2:13). Sanctification is not instantaneous because it is not the work of God alone. The justified person is actively involved in submitting to God's will, resisting sin, seeking holiness, and working to be more godly (Gal. 5:22-23). Significantly, sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a perfect life, we are still justified.

Where justification is a legal declaration that is instantaneous, sanctification is a process. Where justification comes from outside of us, from God, sanctification comes from God within us by the work of the Holy Spirit in accordance with the Bible. In other words, we contribute to sanctification through our efforts. In contrast, we do not contribute to our justification through our efforts.

Now, there is one more point of clarification. To sanctify also means to set apart for holy use. Therefore, we can have verses that talk about us being sanctified already because God has set us apart for holy use.

  • John 10:36, "do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?"
  • Rom. 15:16, "to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, that my offering of the Gentiles might become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit."
  • 1 Cor. 1:2, "to the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours."
  • 1 Cor. 6:11, "And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God."
  • 1 Tim. 4:4-5, "For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, if it is received with gratitude; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer."
  • Heb. 2:11, "For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren."
All that we need is given to us in Christ. So there is one sense in which we are not yet completely formed into the image of Christ (sanctification of being made like Jesus), yet in another sense, we are because we are seen as "in Christ" and set apart for holy use where all our spiritual needs and purposes are met through Jesus.

Does this mean those justified by grace can sin as much as they want?
Romans 6:1-2 says, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer in it?"

1 Thess. 4:7 says, "God has called us not for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification."

The Scriptures teach us that we are to live holy lives and avoid sin (Col. 1:5-11). Just because we are saved and eternally justified before God (John 10:28), that is no excuse to continue in the sin from which we were saved. Of course, we all sin (Rom. 3:23); but the war between the saved and sin is continuous (Rom. 7:14-20), and it won't be until the return of Jesus that we will be delivered from this body of death (Rom. 7:24). To seek sin continually and use God's grace to excuse it later is to trample the blood of Christ underfoot (Heb. 10:29) and to reveal the person's true sinful, unsaved nature (1 John 2:4; 2:19). Other verses worth checking out are: Heb. 12:14; 1 Pet. 1:14-16; and 1 Pet. 2:21-22.

What the cults do with justification and sanctification
The cults consistently blur the meanings of the two terms and misapply the truths taught in God's word. The result is a theology of works' righteousness--of earning their salvation, which only leads to damnation. This is because by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified (Gal. 2:16). Man cannot contribute to his salvation (Gal. 5:1-8). Man is sinful, and even his best deeds are stained and filthy before God (Isaiah 64:6). Therefore, making a person right before God can only be God's work (Gal. 2:20).

Typically, in cult theologies, a person is not justified (declared righteous in God's eyes) until the final day of judgment when his works are weighed, and a reward is given; or he is found worthy of his place with God. Thus, a person with this errant theology can not claim 1 John 5:13 as his own which says, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God."

Contextually, "These things" refer to loving God, being obedient to Him, belief in Christ, and eternal life in Jesus. Therefore, 1 John 5:13 can be considered a test. If you are believing and doing the right things, then you will know if you have eternal life. Can a cultist know he has eternal life? No, he cannot; but a Christian can.

People in cults don't understand the difference between justification and sanctification. Therefore, they must depend upon a cooperative effort with God to have their sins forgiven, which is, essentially, combining the filthy works of man (Isaiah 64:6) with the holy work of God. They don't mix. They can't. Hence, salvation is by grace through faith alone. To believe anything else is to miss salvation.

Assurance in the Traditional View, is the same or a synonym for Faith/Trust/Believe. Because our assurance only lies in Christ and what He accomplished according to the Gospel. In the Heidelberg Catechism,

21)What is true Faith?

True Faith is not only a knowledge and conviction that everything God reveals in his Word is true; it is also a deep rooted assurance, created in me by the Holy Spirit through the Holy Gospel, that, out of sheer grace earned for us by Christ, not only others, but I too, have had my sins forgiven, have been made forever right with God, and have been granted Salvation.

Predestination I will address in my next post, because I went way over board with this post, sorry Ladies & Gentlemen.
 
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~Anastasia~

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I appreciate your post here, ladodgers. :) And welcome to TT!

I'm afraid I don't have time to address it right now, but just briefly I will say that it appears you may have misunderstood some of the teachings of the Orthodox Church. I'll try to get back to it tomorrow, if someone else doesn't get to it first. :)

But I appreciate your post on your own viewpoint. And again, welcome to TT!

I appreciate this approach, that each religion can gather to discuss theology without hate, but with love. I am a convinced Calvinist for many years now. Prior to that I was a Mormon, Seventhday, JW, Pentecostal, Arminian, and Roman Catholic. This was when I was very young and living with my Mother. It was like she was searching for something. Anyway I became a convinced Calvinist (not a Hyper-Calvinist) when a Calvinist friend of mine challenge why I believe what I believe. And I could not answer his question directly, because in my experience in those days. Christians were not studying or asking question in respect to knowing God's word, but receiving what was told to us as truth. He shared Calvinism with me, and after hearing it. I replied that's not in the Bible. It sounded unfair to me. So one day I set out to prove Calvinism false through God's word. And to my amazement everything that Calvinism taught I found in the Bible. So I kept studying it day and night, consumed to seek the truth, I finally found the doctrines of Grace, and finally heard the Gospel of Christ that Paul preached. And I have been a convinced Calvinist ever since.

I recently came across "THEOSIS" from a friend my met on this forum. Which I never heard that term before; "THEOSIS". And I have been studying it lastly to get a good understanding of it. As I have been studying it, I have come to some conclusions, that it sounds very close to Sanctification, and perseverance of the Saints and Union with Christ. But before I post my findings I want to do more homework.

The Traditional view also believes that transformation is a essential part of salvation. We also believe in the Redemption of sinners, and Christ propitiating the righteous judgement and wrath of God against all law-breakers and wickedness. This sanction of punishment was rendered when the first Adam breached the Covenant of Works, that demanded Perfect Obedience, but instead disobeyed God, and bought sin, death, and condemnation on us all, because all have sinned. And Christ speaks a lot of the wicked being judged for their sins and being cast into the lake of fire. The EOC does not believe in God's judgement against sin. But that we just die. There is no hell or punishment for sin. So that's a major difference between Traditional vs EOC is the doctrine of Original Sin. And the punishment for sin. As far as I know, the traditional view, makes much of our Fallen condition before a Holy God. And the consequences or punishment for sin.

Justification & Sanctification in the Traditional view, teach that they are distinct from one another, but not inseparable. Meaning that when a sinner is Justified in Christ through Faith, the good works/obedience/piety flow from it. Once the sinner is in Christ, in the living vine, that produce good fruit. Justification is one of my favorite topics because it is good works for sinners.

So one of the most essential doctrines in the Traditional View is the Distinction Between Law & Gospel In Relation to Justification By Faith Alone. How a sinner justified before a Holy God?

Understanding the difference between justification and sanctification can be as important as understanding the difference between salvation and damnation. Rightly dividing between the two is of crucial importance. When you understand what they are, you can then draw a line in the sand and say, "This is what saves. This is not what saves."

Justification is the work of God where the righteousness of Jesus is reckoned to the sinner, so the sinner is declared by God as being righteous under the Law (Rom. 4:3; 5:1,9; Gal. 2:16; 3:11). This righteousness is not earned or retained by any effort of the saved. Justification is an instantaneous occurrence with the result being eternal life. It is based completely and solely upon Jesus' sacrifice on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24) and is received by faith alone (Eph. 2:8-9). No works are necessary whatsoever to obtain justification. Otherwise, it is not a gift (Rom. 6:23). Therefore, we are justified by faith (Romans 5:1).

Sanctification is the process of being set apart for God's work and being conformed to the image of Christ. This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it is still God working in the believer to produce more of a godly character and life in the person who has already been justified (Phil. 2:13). Sanctification is not instantaneous because it is not the work of God alone. The justified person is actively involved in submitting to God's will, resisting sin, seeking holiness, and working to be more godly (Gal. 5:22-23). Significantly, sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a perfect life, we are still justified.

Where justification is a legal declaration that is instantaneous, sanctification is a process. Where justification comes from outside of us, from God, sanctification comes from God within us by the work of the Holy Spirit in accordance with the Bible. In other words, we contribute to sanctification through our efforts. In contrast, we do not contribute to our justification through our efforts.

Now, there is one more point of clarification. To sanctify also means to set apart for holy use. Therefore, we can have verses that talk about us being sanctified already because God has set us apart for holy use.

  • John 10:36, "do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?"
  • Rom. 15:16, "to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, that my offering of the Gentiles might become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit."
  • 1 Cor. 1:2, "to the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours."
  • 1 Cor. 6:11, "And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God."
  • 1 Tim. 4:4-5, "For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, if it is received with gratitude; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer."
  • Heb. 2:11, "For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren."
All that we need is given to us in Christ. So there is one sense in which we are not yet completely formed into the image of Christ (sanctification of being made like Jesus), yet in another sense, we are because we are seen as "in Christ" and set apart for holy use where all our spiritual needs and purposes are met through Jesus.

Does this mean those justified by grace can sin as much as they want?
Romans 6:1-2 says, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer in it?"

1 Thess. 4:7 says, "God has called us not for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification."

The Scriptures teach us that we are to live holy lives and avoid sin (Col. 1:5-11). Just because we are saved and eternally justified before God (John 10:28), that is no excuse to continue in the sin from which we were saved. Of course, we all sin (Rom. 3:23); but the war between the saved and sin is continuous (Rom. 7:14-20), and it won't be until the return of Jesus that we will be delivered from this body of death (Rom. 7:24). To seek sin continually and use God's grace to excuse it later is to trample the blood of Christ underfoot (Heb. 10:29) and to reveal the person's true sinful, unsaved nature (1 John 2:4; 2:19). Other verses worth checking out are: Heb. 12:14; 1 Pet. 1:14-16; and 1 Pet. 2:21-22.

What the cults do with justification and sanctification
The cults consistently blur the meanings of the two terms and misapply the truths taught in God's word. The result is a theology of works' righteousness--of earning their salvation, which only leads to damnation. This is because by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified (Gal. 2:16). Man cannot contribute to his salvation (Gal. 5:1-8). Man is sinful, and even his best deeds are stained and filthy before God (Isaiah 64:6). Therefore, making a person right before God can only be God's work (Gal. 2:20).

Typically, in cult theologies, a person is not justified (declared righteous in God's eyes) until the final day of judgment when his works are weighed, and a reward is given; or he is found worthy of his place with God. Thus, a person with this errant theology can not claim 1 John 5:13 as his own which says, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God."

Contextually, "These things" refer to loving God, being obedient to Him, belief in Christ, and eternal life in Jesus. Therefore, 1 John 5:13 can be considered a test. If you are believing and doing the right things, then you will know if you have eternal life. Can a cultist know he has eternal life? No, he cannot; but a Christian can.

People in cults don't understand the difference between justification and sanctification. Therefore, they must depend upon a cooperative effort with God to have their sins forgiven, which is, essentially, combining the filthy works of man (Isaiah 64:6) with the holy work of God. They don't mix. They can't. Hence, salvation is by grace through faith alone. To believe anything else is to miss salvation.

Assurance in the Traditional View, is the same or a synonym for Faith/Trust/Believe. Because our assurance only lies in Christ and what He accomplished according to the Gospel. In the Heidelberg Catechism,

21)What is true Faith?

True Faith is not only a knowledge and conviction that everything God reveals in his Word is true; it is also a deep rooted assurance, created in me by the Holy Spirit through the Holy Gospel, that, out of sheer grace earned for us by Christ, not only others, but I too, have had my sins forgiven, have been made forever right with God, and have been granted Salvation.

Predestination I will address in my next post, because I went way over board with this post, sorry Ladies & Gentlemen.
 
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All4Christ

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I appreciate this approach, that each religion can gather to discuss theology without hate, but with love. I am a convinced Calvinist for many years now. Prior to that I was a Mormon, Seventhday, JW, Pentecostal, Arminian, and Roman Catholic. This was when I was very young and living with my Mother. It was like she was searching for something. Anyway I became a convinced Calvinist (not a Hyper-Calvinist) when a Calvinist friend of mine challenge why I believe what I believe. And I could not answer his question directly, because in my experience in those days. Christians were not studying or asking question in respect to knowing God's word, but receiving what was told to us as truth. He shared Calvinism with me, and after hearing it. I replied that's not in the Bible. It sounded unfair to me. So one day I set out to prove Calvinism false through God's word. And to my amazement everything that Calvinism taught I found in the Bible. So I kept studying it day and night, consumed to seek the truth, I finally found the doctrines of Grace, and finally heard the Gospel of Christ that Paul preached. And I have been a convinced Calvinist ever since.

I recently came across "THEOSIS" from a friend my met on this forum. Which I never heard that term before; "THEOSIS". And I have been studying it lastly to get a good understanding of it. As I have been studying it, I have come to some conclusions, that it sounds very close to Sanctification, and perseverance of the Saints and Union with Christ. But before I post my findings I want to do more homework.

The Traditional view also believes that transformation is a essential part of salvation. We also believe in the Redemption of sinners, and Christ propitiating the righteous judgement and wrath of God against all law-breakers and wickedness. This sanction of punishment was rendered when the first Adam breached the Covenant of Works, that demanded Perfect Obedience, but instead disobeyed God, and bought sin, death, and condemnation on us all, because all have sinned. And Christ speaks a lot of the wicked being judged for their sins and being cast into the lake of fire. The EOC does not believe in God's judgement against sin. But that we just die. There is no hell or punishment for sin. So that's a major difference between Traditional vs EOC is the doctrine of Original Sin. And the punishment for sin. As far as I know, the traditional view, makes much of our Fallen condition before a Holy God. And the consequences or punishment for sin.

Justification & Sanctification in the Traditional view, teach that they are distinct from one another, but not inseparable. Meaning that when a sinner is Justified in Christ through Faith, the good works/obedience/piety flow from it. Once the sinner is in Christ, in the living vine, that produce good fruit. Justification is one of my favorite topics because it is good works for sinners.

So one of the most essential doctrines in the Traditional View is the Distinction Between Law & Gospel In Relation to Justification By Faith Alone. How a sinner justified before a Holy God?

Understanding the difference between justification and sanctification can be as important as understanding the difference between salvation and damnation. Rightly dividing between the two is of crucial importance. When you understand what they are, you can then draw a line in the sand and say, "This is what saves. This is not what saves."

Justification is the work of God where the righteousness of Jesus is reckoned to the sinner, so the sinner is declared by God as being righteous under the Law (Rom. 4:3; 5:1,9; Gal. 2:16; 3:11). This righteousness is not earned or retained by any effort of the saved. Justification is an instantaneous occurrence with the result being eternal life. It is based completely and solely upon Jesus' sacrifice on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24) and is received by faith alone (Eph. 2:8-9). No works are necessary whatsoever to obtain justification. Otherwise, it is not a gift (Rom. 6:23). Therefore, we are justified by faith (Romans 5:1).

Sanctification is the process of being set apart for God's work and being conformed to the image of Christ. This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it is still God working in the believer to produce more of a godly character and life in the person who has already been justified (Phil. 2:13). Sanctification is not instantaneous because it is not the work of God alone. The justified person is actively involved in submitting to God's will, resisting sin, seeking holiness, and working to be more godly (Gal. 5:22-23). Significantly, sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a perfect life, we are still justified.

Where justification is a legal declaration that is instantaneous, sanctification is a process. Where justification comes from outside of us, from God, sanctification comes from God within us by the work of the Holy Spirit in accordance with the Bible. In other words, we contribute to sanctification through our efforts. In contrast, we do not contribute to our justification through our efforts.

Now, there is one more point of clarification. To sanctify also means to set apart for holy use. Therefore, we can have verses that talk about us being sanctified already because God has set us apart for holy use.

  • John 10:36, "do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?"
  • Rom. 15:16, "to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, that my offering of the Gentiles might become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit."
  • 1 Cor. 1:2, "to the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours."
  • 1 Cor. 6:11, "And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God."
  • 1 Tim. 4:4-5, "For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, if it is received with gratitude; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer."
  • Heb. 2:11, "For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren."
All that we need is given to us in Christ. So there is one sense in which we are not yet completely formed into the image of Christ (sanctification of being made like Jesus), yet in another sense, we are because we are seen as "in Christ" and set apart for holy use where all our spiritual needs and purposes are met through Jesus.

Does this mean those justified by grace can sin as much as they want?
Romans 6:1-2 says, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer in it?"

1 Thess. 4:7 says, "God has called us not for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification."

The Scriptures teach us that we are to live holy lives and avoid sin (Col. 1:5-11). Just because we are saved and eternally justified before God (John 10:28), that is no excuse to continue in the sin from which we were saved. Of course, we all sin (Rom. 3:23); but the war between the saved and sin is continuous (Rom. 7:14-20), and it won't be until the return of Jesus that we will be delivered from this body of death (Rom. 7:24). To seek sin continually and use God's grace to excuse it later is to trample the blood of Christ underfoot (Heb. 10:29) and to reveal the person's true sinful, unsaved nature (1 John 2:4; 2:19). Other verses worth checking out are: Heb. 12:14; 1 Pet. 1:14-16; and 1 Pet. 2:21-22.

What the cults do with justification and sanctification
The cults consistently blur the meanings of the two terms and misapply the truths taught in God's word. The result is a theology of works' righteousness--of earning their salvation, which only leads to damnation. This is because by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified (Gal. 2:16). Man cannot contribute to his salvation (Gal. 5:1-8). Man is sinful, and even his best deeds are stained and filthy before God (Isaiah 64:6). Therefore, making a person right before God can only be God's work (Gal. 2:20).

Typically, in cult theologies, a person is not justified (declared righteous in God's eyes) until the final day of judgment when his works are weighed, and a reward is given; or he is found worthy of his place with God. Thus, a person with this errant theology can not claim 1 John 5:13 as his own which says, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God."

Contextually, "These things" refer to loving God, being obedient to Him, belief in Christ, and eternal life in Jesus. Therefore, 1 John 5:13 can be considered a test. If you are believing and doing the right things, then you will know if you have eternal life. Can a cultist know he has eternal life? No, he cannot; but a Christian can.

People in cults don't understand the difference between justification and sanctification. Therefore, they must depend upon a cooperative effort with God to have their sins forgiven, which is, essentially, combining the filthy works of man (Isaiah 64:6) with the holy work of God. They don't mix. They can't. Hence, salvation is by grace through faith alone. To believe anything else is to miss salvation.

Assurance in the Traditional View, is the same or a synonym for Faith/Trust/Believe. Because our assurance only lies in Christ and what He accomplished according to the Gospel. In the Heidelberg Catechism,

21)What is true Faith?

True Faith is not only a knowledge and conviction that everything God reveals in his Word is true; it is also a deep rooted assurance, created in me by the Holy Spirit through the Holy Gospel, that, out of sheer grace earned for us by Christ, not only others, but I too, have had my sins forgiven, have been made forever right with God, and have been granted Salvation.

Predestination I will address in my next post, because I went way over board with this post, sorry Ladies & Gentlemen.

Welcome to Traditional Theology! I am very short on time right now, but I wanted to quickly clarify that while we don't have the same understanding of Original Sin, we do believe there is judgment of sins, though it admittedly is different than many other Christians' beliefs. I'm hoping @~Anastasia~ or Anhelyna can explain our view more? Otherwise, I will explain when I get home :) Once again, I apologize for the brevity...we are on a family trip and everyone is waiting!

ETA: Apparently I missed Anastasia's response :)
 
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hedrick

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As I'm sure you know. my tradition takes a different perspective on things than the older traditions. We think Jesus' main purpose was to call people to join him in establishing the Kingdom. For those whose purposes are opposed to Jesus', that requires repentance. Jesus speaks of salvation in two senses: he speaks of people who are opposed to God's purposes and repent as being saved. He also speaks of people being saved in the final judgement.

But I always worry about seeing salvation as our main purpose, because it seems like it turns the Gospel selfish. Our main purpose is to be God’s agents. Salvation is accepting that purpose. I don’t think someone whose end goal is to become saved is likely to become saved. It’s those who love God and others who are saved. This sort of paradox about salvation is referred to by Jesus: “For those who want to save their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will save it.” (Luke 9:24)

As a Protestant I accept justification by faith. That says that we’re accepted by God (justified) because we accepted Jesus’ call to follow him (faith, though as an inclusivist I take a wide view of doing that). Setting that against works is silly. Since accepting Jesus’ call is a matter of the direction of our lives, saying that we can do that without showing a result is like saying we can have a direction of north while going south. But the concept of justification is important to me because it means that God will forgive us as long as we’re his, following Jesus’ comparison of God with a forgiving father. I think that’s the most assurance of salvation we’re going to get. As his followers, we can trust God to save us.
 
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ladodgers6

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Welcome to Traditional Theology! I am very short on time right now, but I wanted to quickly clarify that while we don't have the same understanding of Original Sin, we do believe there is judgment of sins, though it admittedly is different than many other Christians' beliefs. I'm hoping @~Anastasia~ or Anhelyna can explain our view more? Otherwise, I will explain when I get home :) Once again, I apologize for the brevity...we are on a family trip and everyone is waiting!

ETA: Apparently I missed Anastasia's response :)

Thanks for your comments, and I would appreciate more insight on your view of sin and punishment. Take your time and enjoy your family time. No apology needed. When you get time, add whatever you wish. The more information the better. I'm looking forward to it.
 
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