SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

[justbyfaith]

Exactly. which means you can still die.

Never perishing is the result of actually haven been given eternal life.

Which is why we have the hope of eternal life, now.

Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior; Titus 1:1-3


and again


that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:7


and again


22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. Romans 6:22

• The end result of a life that bears fruit that is holy, is everlasting life.

• Which Jesus promised to those who love Him.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12



and again


5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? James 2:5


Those who will inherit the kingdom of God are those who love Him: that is to say, those who keep His commandments. Those who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.


“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15



He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4





JLB

 

[justbyfaith]

Exactly. which means you can still die.

Never perishing is the result of actually haven been given eternal life.

Which is why we have the hope of eternal life, now.

Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior; Titus 1:1-3


and again


that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:7


and again


22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. Romans 6:22

• The end result of a life that bears fruit that is holy, is everlasting life.

• Which Jesus promised to those who love Him.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12



and again


5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? James 2:5


Those who will inherit the kingdom of God are those who love Him: that is to say, those who keep His commandments. Those who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.


“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15



He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4





JLB

 

[justbyfaith]

pre-peat of post #384.

 

[justbyfaith]

Actually, @JLB777,

One passes from death into everlasting life at the moment that they receive a living and saving faith--John 5:24 (look it up in your kjv)

 

[justbyfaith]

Would you please explain what abiding in Christ means? This is key to understanding Scripture.


Oh, I see. So, we're commanded to be saved. iow, salvation is up to us. Really?

Consider husband and wife. A relationship that in God's plan is permanent. While married, there can be fellowship or no fellowship between them, as everyone knows.

The same principle is true in the Christian's life. Though the believer is the Bride of Christ, there may be fellowship or not.

Since the believer is commanded to abide in Christ, it simply cannot be referring to salvation.


This doesn't make any sense, and there is no Scripture to support it.


No, to be sealed means to be guaranteed our inheritance for the day of redemption.

Eph 1:14 - who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

with:

Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

That's what it means to be sealed with the Holy Spirit.

 

[justbyfaith]

Abiding in Christ means you are a branch in the vine, drawing up real nourishment from the vine. It also means you don't sin (1 John 3:6). This is not dependent on us (although we must be willing if we are going to receive the free gift of God--His righteousness--Romans 5:15-19). For it is God who works within us both TO WILL and to do according to His good pleasure.

 

[justbyfaith]

It works better when you quote all of James 2 and you find that James is saying that all are equally in need of Jesus Christ and ALL should be treated equally.

James uses a rich man and a poor man... defined by attire...

Since Jesus used cloaks as examples of carnal state... we know the poor man in James 2 isn’t as “righteous”... in appearance as the”rich man”...

Yet... James 2 says he is as important as the rich man.

All else is woeful sin against the ROYAL Covenant.... (Love others as I have Loved you).., “while we were yet sinners”...

And then... compare that with Romans 2:1-3... “you who judge have done the same”...

But wait... there’s more... James 1 and 2 speaks of caring for fellow man and James even discusses how we can build up or destroy others with our words... later on.

You have just taken a verse out of context...

James and Paul agree... Faith without... (Love) is DEAD.

Me thinks @justbyfaith might not be about Faith alone. True faith alone yields mercy and a contempt for judgment of men by Carnal means...

The conversation with the woman at the Well is a great example...

Jesus called out her transgression and then went on to reveal Himself to her as the Messiah... and obviously saved her by her acceptance of Him... then she went on to ... wait for it... talk about Jesus to many... note... talk about Jesus... not twist the discussion to condemn others and carnally Judge them!

When I became a man is from 1 Corinthians 13... how in the goodness did you manage to diminish the focus on Love of 1 Corinthians 13, by assosiating it with flesh!?!

The Son of God looked to the heart... not the flesh! Only God knows the heart! Jesus came to save...

Churtianity ain’t Christ following!

I am definitely of the camp that one is saved by grace through faith alone--salvation itself will make a differen

 

[justbyfaith]

It works better when you quote all of James 2 and you find that James is saying that all are equally in need of Jesus Christ and ALL should be treated equally.

James uses a rich man and a poor man... defined by attire...

Since Jesus used cloaks as examples of carnal state... we know the poor man in James 2 isn’t as “righteous”... in appearance as the”rich man”...

Yet... James 2 says he is as important as the rich man.

All else is woeful sin against the ROYAL Covenant.... (Love others as I have Loved you).., “while we were yet sinners”...

And then... compare that with Romans 2:1-3... “you who judge have done the same”...

But wait... there’s more... James 1 and 2 speaks of caring for fellow man and James even discusses how we can build up or destroy others with our words... later on.

You have just taken a verse out of context...

James and Paul agree... Faith without... (Love) is DEAD.

Me thinks @justbyfaith might not be about Faith alone. True faith alone yields mercy and a contempt for judgment of men by Carnal means...

The conversation with the woman at the Well is a great example...

Jesus called out her transgression and then went on to reveal Himself to her as the Messiah... and obviously saved her by her acceptance of Him... then she went on to ... wait for it... talk about Jesus to many... note... talk about Jesus... not twist the discussion to condemn others and carnally Judge them!

When I became a man is from 1 Corinthians 13... how in the goodness did you manage to diminish the focus on Love of 1 Corinthians 13, by assosiating it with flesh!?!

The Son of God looked to the heart... not the flesh! Only God knows the heart! Jesus came to save...

Churtianity ain’t Christ following!

I am definitely of the camp that one is saved by grace through faith alone--salvation itself will make a differen

 

[justbyfaith]

It works better when you quote all of James 2 and you find that James is saying that all are equally in need of Jesus Christ and ALL should be treated equally.

James uses a rich man and a poor man... defined by attire...

Since Jesus used cloaks as examples of carnal state... we know the poor man in James 2 isn’t as “righteous”... in appearance as the”rich man”...

Yet... James 2 says he is as important as the rich man.

All else is woeful sin against the ROYAL Covenant.... (Love others as I have Loved you).., “while we were yet sinners”...

And then... compare that with Romans 2:1-3... “you who judge have done the same”...

But wait... there’s more... James 1 and 2 speaks of caring for fellow man and James even discusses how we can build up or destroy others with our words... later on.

You have just taken a verse out of context...

James and Paul agree... Faith without... (Love) is DEAD.

Me thinks @justbyfaith might not be about Faith alone. True faith alone yields mercy and a contempt for judgment of men by Carnal means...

The conversation with the woman at the Well is a great example...

Jesus called out her transgression and then went on to reveal Himself to her as the Messiah... and obviously saved her by her acceptance of Him... then she went on to ... wait for it... talk about Jesus to many... note... talk about Jesus... not twist the discussion to condemn others and carnally Judge them!

When I became a man is from 1 Corinthians 13... how in the goodness did you manage to diminish the focus on Love of 1 Corinthians 13, by assosiating it with flesh!?!

The Son of God looked to the heart... not the flesh! Only God knows the heart! Jesus came to save...

Churtianity ain’t Christ following!

I am definitely of the camp that one is saved by grace through faith alone--salvation itself will make a differen

 

[FreeGrace2]

I believe that true salvation IS irrevocable.

I don't think anyone has been arguing anything else.

But I am posting not only in this thread but in the soteriology section. So I am hoping to add clarity with the doctrine of salvation. What is salvation? It is defined in Matthew 1:21. A person is not only saved from hell, but from the sins that would put them in hell. And this is in the practical sense. The faulty prayer goes like this: I confess to you Lord that I have sinned, but really I didn't because my new nature didn't take part in it. This is a gnostic belief that John was combatting in that epistle![/QUOTE]
I really don't know what you're trying to say.

It seems you're saying that the new nature can sin, yet 1 Jn 3:9 says otherwise.

So please clarify.

I DO believe in the eternal security of the believer; but many of you don't understand what a believer truly is.

The Bible defines what a believer is. One who has full faith/trust in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross for his/her salvation. Such a one has been forgiven, justified, sanctified (made holy), and is a new creature (2 Cor 5:17).

What have I missed?

I believe in OHAH--Once Holy Always Holy. Those who are not made holy will not be saved--Hebrews 12:14.

Please explain what it means to be "made holy". Kinda sounds like 'sinless perfection' which the Bible does not teach.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Actually, @JLB777,

One passes from death into everlasting life at the moment that they receive a living and saving faith--John 5:24 (look it up in your kjv)

Amen!

 

[justbyfaith]

ce in the life of a believer. We are talking CAUSE and EFFECT here. The cause is grace through faith, the effect is salvation, which is a transformed heart and life. Continued from #389. Computer acting up.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Abiding in Christ means you are a branch in the vine, drawing up real nourishment from the vine.

Could you please forget the figures of speech and just use plain language. I am a person, not a branch in a vine.

It also means you don't sin (1 John 3:6).

By now, I've asked a number of times if your view includes 'sinless perfection' during this life. Well?? Sure sounds like it.

This is not dependent on us (although we must be willing if we are going to receive the free gift of God--His righteousness--Romans 5:15-19). For it is God who works within us both TO WILL and to do according to His good pleasure.

Please answer the question.

 

[justbyfaith]

ce in the life of a believer. We are talking CAUSE and EFFECT here. The cause is grace through faith, the effect is salvation, which is a transformed heart and life. Conti

I don't think anyone has been arguing anything else.

But I am posting not only in this thread but in the soteriology section. So I am hoping to add clarity with the doctrine of salvation. What is salvation? It is defined in Matthew 1:21. A person is not only saved from hell, but from the sins that would put them in hell. And this is in the practical sense. The faulty prayer goes like this: I confess to you Lord that I have sinned, but really I didn't because my new nature didn't take part in it. This is a gnostic belief that John was combatting in that epistle!

I really don't know what you're trying to say.

It seems you're saying that the new nature can sin, yet 1 Jn 3:9 says otherwise.

So please clarify.


The Bible defines what a believer is. One who has full faith/trust in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross for his/her salvation. Such a one has been forgiven, justified, sanctified (made holy), and is a new creature (2 Cor 5:17).

What have I missed?


Please explain what it means to be "made holy". Kinda sounds like 'sinless perfection' which the Bible does not teach.[/QUOTE]

 

[FreeGrace2]

ce in the life of a believer. We are talking CAUSE and EFFECT here. The cause is grace through faith, the effect is salvation, which is a transformed heart and life. Continued from #389. Computer acting up.

It isn't your computer. It's the website. Someone posted a question to the tech support people. I hope they fix it. It's real annoying.

 

[justbyfaith]

The one who does the will of God abides for ever (1 John 2:17). Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not (1 John 3:6). What do you think my answer is, which is from the Bible? The problem is that so many people read the Bible and say, "This must mean something else," so they pervert the literal interpretation and change the meaning of scripture in their minds.

 

[justbyfaith]

pre-peat of post #397.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, we put our complete trust in what Jesus did for us. But His blood for us was shed on the Cross, which has the power to cleanse us from ALL sin (1 John 1:7, Titus 2:14), even to sanctify us wholly (Hebrews 13:12, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:10, Hebrews 10:14, 1 John 3:9).

On another note, the new nature does not sin; but neither are we ever obligated to obey the old nature in what we do.

 

[Marvin Knox]

I DO believe in the eternal security of the believer; but many of you don't understand what a believer truly is. I believe in OHAH--Once Holy Always Holy. Those who are not made holy will not be saved--Hebrews 12:14.

Of course.

But our holiness stems from Christ working in us.
Christ's presence in us is based on a once for all sealing by His Spirit. That Spirit will never leave a true believer.

He performs the work of advocacy simply because we do sin.

When we sin we are not acting holy.

So obviously it isn't the state of literal holiness that makes us God's child.

It is the Holy living in the unholy that makes us God's child.

Again - if you are simply saying that people who are truly saved will produce holy works - everyone agrees with that.

If you are saying that a state of experiencial holiness is what makes us saved - some here obviously believe that with you.

They are preaching a doctrine of works salvation and you are right in there with them.

Now - if you are setting a certain criteria of experiencial holiness of your own making to say whether a person is saved or not - that too is sin of the first order.

Then, by your own reckoning, you would be classified as unsaved for so sinning or lacking holiness.

You either believe in eternal security or you don't. You either believe in salvation by grace or you don't.

 

[Marvin Knox]

I DO believe in the eternal security of the believer; but many of you don't understand what a believer truly is. I believe in OHAH--Once Holy Always Holy. Those who are not made holy will not be saved--Hebrews 12:14.

Of course.

But our holiness stems from Christ working in us.
Christ's presence in us is based on a once for all sealing by His Spirit. That Spirit will never leave a true believer.

He performs the work of advocacy simply because we do sin.

When we sin we are not acting holy.

So obviously it isn't the state of literal holiness that makes us God's child.

It is the Holy living in the unholy that makes us God's child.

Again - if you are simply saying that people who are truly saved will produce holy works - everyone agrees with that.

If you are saying that a state of experiencial holiness is what makes us saved - some here obviously believe that with you.

They are preaching a doctrine of works salvation and you are right in there with them.

Now - if you are setting a certain criteria of experiencial holiness of your own making to say whether a person is saved or not - that too is sin of the first order.

You either believe in salvation by grace or you believe in and preach a gospel of works salvation.

 

[Grip Docility]

I am definitely of the camp that one is saved by grace through faith alone--salvation itself will make a differen

It does... But God alone knows each heart and what is what.

That’s my stance.

I think I understand your stance... but I still see a difference focus on our parts...

Different members of the same Body..,

I’ll drink New Wine with you to that...

 

[Marvin Knox]

I'm getting tired of this website doing double posts and such.