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SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Ron Gurley, Mar 6, 2018.

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  1. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    Those who think they're saved wouldn't have any ground to stand on in their belief unless they thought they were believers also. I am also talking about mental assent to the doctrines of the faith vs. actually believing with the heart. With the heart man believes unto righteousness. So many are ten inches away from salvation. And few are actually, truly saved (Matthew 7:13-14, 1 Peter 3:20, Luke 18:8)
     
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    Those who think they're saved wouldn't have any ground to stand on in their belief unless they thought they were believers also. I am also talking about mental assent to the doctrines of the faith vs. actually believing with the heart. With the heart man believes unto righteousness. So many are ten inches away from salvation. And few are actually, truly saved (Matthew 7:13-14, 1 Peter 3:20, Luke 18:8)
     
  3. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    Those who think they're saved wouldn't have any ground to stand on in their belief unless they thought they were believers also. I am also talking about mental assent to the doctrines of the faith vs. actually believing with the heart. With the heart man believes unto righteousness. So many are ten inches away from salvation. And few are actually, truly saved (Matthew 7:13-14, 1 Peter 3:20, Luke 18:8)
     
  4. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    It works better when you quote all of James 2 and you find that James is saying that all are equally in need of Jesus Christ and ALL should be treated equally.

    James uses a rich man and a poor man... defined by attire...

    Since Jesus used cloaks as examples of carnal state... we know the poor man in James 2 isn’t as “righteous”... in appearance as the”rich man”...

    Yet... James 2 says he is as important as the rich man.

    All else is woeful sin against the ROYAL Covenant.... (Love others as I have Loved you).., “while we were yet sinners”...

    And then... compare that with Romans 2:1-3... “you who judge have done the same”...

    But wait... there’s more... James 1 and 2 speaks of caring for fellow man and James even discusses how we can build up or destroy others with our words... later on.

    You have just taken a verse out of context...

    James and Paul agree... Faith without... (Love) is DEAD.

    Me thinks @justbyfaith might not be about Faith alone. True faith alone yields mercy and a contempt for judgment of men by Carnal means...

    The conversation with the woman at the Well is a great example...

    Jesus called out her transgression and then went on to reveal Himself to her as the Messiah... and obviously saved her by her acceptance of Him... then she went on to ... wait for it... talk about Jesus to many... note... talk about Jesus... not twist the discussion to condemn others and carnally Judge them!

    When I became a man is from 1 Corinthians 13... how in the goodness did you manage to diminish the focus on Love of 1 Corinthians 13, by assosiating it with flesh!?!

    The Son of God looked to the heart... not the flesh! Only God knows the heart! Jesus came to save...

    Churtianity ain’t Christ following!
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  5. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    How nice of you to ignore what happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany and miss my post meaning.

    Love and Compassion seems to be lacking in you!
     
  6. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    How nice of you to ignore what happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany and miss my post meaning.

    Love and Compassion seems to be lacking in you!

    You seem to have a single eye.
     
  7. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    How nice of you to ignore what happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany and miss my post meaning.

    Love and Compassion seems to be lacking in you!

    You seem to have a single eye.
     
  8. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    How nice of you to ignore what happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany and miss my post meaning.

    Love and Compassion seems to be lacking in you!

    You seem to have a single eye.
     
  9. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    How nice of you to ignore what happened to the Jews in Nazi Germany and miss my post meaning.

    Love and Compassion seems to be lacking in you!

    You seem to have a single eye.
     
  10. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm telling you the truth. The Hexagram didn't even originate with the Hebrews. Research this and you will see that I'm telling you the truth.
     
  11. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Would you please explain what abiding in Christ means? This is key to understanding Scripture.

    Oh, I see. So, we're commanded to be saved. iow, salvation is up to us. Really?

    Consider husband and wife. A relationship that in God's plan is permanent. While married, there can be fellowship or no fellowship between them, as everyone knows.

    The same principle is true in the Christian's life. Though the believer is the Bride of Christ, there may be fellowship or not.

    Since the believer is commanded to abide in Christ, it simply cannot be referring to salvation.

    This doesn't make any sense, and there is no Scripture to support it.

    No, to be sealed means to be guaranteed our inheritance for the day of redemption.

    Eph 1:14 - who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

    with:

    Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

    That's what it means to be sealed with the Holy Spirit.
     
  12. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Many people think they're going to heaven because of their lifestyle only. The moral types, who think God will accept their morality. And many of these moral types will have nothing to do with the biblical teaching on grace and man's inability to save themselves.

    \
    I always find these kind of comments interesting. Please explain the difference and how one can know whether they have "believed with the heart" vs just having "mental assent" to doctrines.

    Do you really believe that your beliefs occur in the organ that pumps blood throughout your body?

    So then, most of evangelical Christianity aren't saved??
     
  13. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    Exactly. which means you can still die.

    Never perishing is the result of actually haven been given eternal life.

    Which is why we have the hope of eternal life, now.

    Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior; Titus 1:1-3


    and again


    that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
    Titus 3:7


    and again


    22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. Romans 6:22


    • The end result of a life that bears fruit that is holy, is everlasting life.

    • Which Jesus promised to those who love Him.

    Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12



    and again


    5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? James 2:5


    Those who will inherit the kingdom of God are those who love Him: that is to say, those who keep His commandments. Those who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God.


    “If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15



    He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4





    JLB
     
  14. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    Hyper grace people think they can live in immorality and even take the mark of the beast and still be saved.


    Those Christians who take the mark of the beast will perish in the lake of fire.


    9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12


    Do you believe a born again Christian can reject Jesus Christ and take the mark of the beast and worship him and still be saved?




    JLB
     
  15. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
    1 Peter 1:6-9


    Sorry, but the salvation of your soul does not mean fellowship with the brethren.


    • receiving the end of your faiththe salvation of your souls.

    You are disregarding the words of scripture.



    Do you believe a born again Christian can abandon his faith and turn to another jesus and another gospel, such as the antichrist, and take his mark and worship him, and still be saved.

    Is that what you teach people?




    JLB
     
  16. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    No - you really need to look at those scriptures again without the blinders.

    1 John 3:6
    New American Standard: “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

    English Standard Version: “No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.”

    Youngs Literal Translation: “every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.”

    Notice that it says that the Holy Spirit "abides in him" who has been born of God and therefore he cannot sin being so born of God and eternally sealed by that same Spirit.

    The will of God is that we believe on Him Whom He has sent. Once they believe, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit who remains in them eternally, never leaving nor forsaking them.

    Having God in them eternally - the new creature can never sin.

    The old man - not so much.

    If you are saying that such a new creation as above does not exist in the case of one who has never believed - everyone agrees with that.

    If you are saying that God ceases to live in the one who is born of God - you are wrong. He abides in us forever.

    Which is it? Please clarify.

    If you are simply arguing the former position - I don't know why since everyone agrees on that.

    Nor would I understand why you would make such a point here in this thread since it is about "irrevocability" as per the title.

    Of course, as FreeGrace2 has stated so forcefully - many here simply don't believe that you believe in the eternal security of the believer.

    Clarification Please.:scratch:
     
  17. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    I said that. Wasn't my post read?

    Which Jesus spoke about in John 10:28a. Or do you disagree?

    No. I believe what Jesus said in John 5:24 and 6:47. Those who believe (now) have eternal life. Why should anyone not believe that?

    OK, I'll 'splain' it again.

    When either salvation or eternal life is mentioned as a "hope", we KNOW it is in reference to the FUTURE TENSE of salvation, which means eternity itself, where the believer will be saved from the presence of sin.

    Same thing here. The "hope of eternal life" is speaking about eternity itself, which we don't have yet. But we do have the gift of eternal life NOW, as Jesus clearly stated in John 5:24 and 6:47.

    This doesn't necessarily demand eternity itself, but when one is born again (fruit to holiness) and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
     
  18. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Your problem isn't "hyper-grace", whatever that means to you. Your problem is simply grace itself. You've made it clear that God's grace is too forgiving; that those children of His that don't live right MUST be sent to hell, in spite of the FACT that Jesus paid for ALL of their sins. Never mind that. They MUST be punished with hell.

    All you can do is assume that Christians will take the mark of the beast. You have no evidence that any will. But then again, your whole theology is full of assumptions.

    Here's what I believe: WHEN a person believes in Jesus Christ for salvation, they are given the gift of eternal life, and for THAT REASON, shall never perish.

    But go ahead and connect the dots.
     
  19. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    I said this:
    "OK, let's take a look:
    3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
    4 We write this to make our joy complete.
    5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
    6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth.
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

    So, just count the times John wrote the red bolded word. 4 times. So, where is the word "salvation" in 1 John 1?"
    How does any of this relate to fellowship and 1 John 1? I'm not seeing it.

    Because I never said that.
    [/QUOTE]
    • receiving the end of your faiththe salvation of your souls.
    [/QUOTE]
    Look up the Greek word for "end". That should clear up your confusion.

    No, I'm trying to show you how much you've been doing that.

    I believe ALL that Jesus said. Those who believe now HAVE eternal life, from John 5:24 and 6:47. And that those He gives eternal life shall never perish, from John 10:28a.

    That's what I believe because Jesus said so. Why don't you believe that?

    I teach what Jesus SAID. Why don't you?
     
  20. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    In what post have I judged anyone carnally? I don't think I have pointed the finger at anyone.
     
  21. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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  22. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith justified sinner

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    Not that it doesn't also support my position, but you quoted 1 John 3:9 when I was referencing 1 John 3:6. 1 John 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Then 1 John 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

    I believe that true salvation IS irrevocable. But I am posting not only in this thread but in the soteriology section. So I am hoping to add clarity with the doctrine of salvation. What is salvation? It is defined in Matthew 1:21. A person is not only saved from hell, but from the sins that would put them in hell. And this is in the practical sense. The faulty prayer goes like this: I confess to you Lord that I have sinned, but really I didn't because my new nature didn't take part in it. This is a gnostic belief that John was combatting in that epistle!

    I DO believe in the eternal security of the believer; but many of you don't understand what a believer truly is. I believe in OHAH--Once Holy Always Holy. Those who are not made holy will not be saved--Hebrews 12:14.
     
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