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Salvation of the Orthodox Christians

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Wryetui, Apr 10, 2015.

  1. Wryetui

    Wryetui IC XC NIKA

    +254
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    Hello there everyone. I have a curiosity on how our catholic brothers and their church see us, so, according to the Roman-Catholic Church, do Orthodox Christians take part in the salvation of Christ, or we are considered heretics and we go to hell, according to you, for not being under the Pope? Of course nobody can know for sure who is saved and who is not, wherever their belief, but as the catholic church has statements for everything, I am just asking, for curiosity, their opinion on us ;)

    I am not trying to start a fight of theological arguments or other things, so pelase, be nice to me guys, I am just curious :D
     
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  2. GoingByzantine

    GoingByzantine Seeking the Narrow Road Supporter

    +1,063
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    The Catholic Church does not view you as heretics, but it hopes that you will rejoin our church communion.
     
  3. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    I've had individual Catholics tell me that I was a heretic for becoming Orthodox after having previously been Catholic, but I think that's probably those individuals' views, not that of their church. As I understand it, they allow Orthodox Christians to commune in their churches, but is is the Orthodox canons and bishops that usually do not allow us to. Particularly since the 1960s, the RCC has become a lot more conciliatory towards both of our communions (EO and OO). In 1965, Ecumenical Patriarch Athenagoras and Pope Paul VI lifted the anathemas that had led to the East-West Schism of 1054. In 1988, the RCC and the Coptic Orthodox Church signed some kind of Christological agreement. Not much has happened since then with either, but the relations are much warmer currently than they used to be.
     
  4. yogosans14

    yogosans14 Newbie

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    From what I have read they don't view Orthodox as hereitcs but they view protestants as heretics.
     
  5. eastcoast_bsc

    eastcoast_bsc Veteran

    +8,301
    Christian



    I believe that Pope Francis would unequivocally say that our Orthodox brothers and sisters are saved.
     
  6. Tallguy88

    Tallguy88 We shall see the King when he comes! Supporter

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    Moat (nearly all) Protestants are not heretics. A heretic is a Catholic who knowingly and willfully adopts heretical beliefs. Someone who has never been Catholic cannot be a heretic. The most that can be said is that Protestants hold to material heresy. That is, they hold beliefs which have been dogmatically defined as heretical. However, since most were born into the beliefs, or never had a chance to learn the truth of the matter, they cannot be said to be heretics, and are not culpable for being wrong on those issues.

    Protestants are considered our fellow Christians, our separated brethern.
     
  7. Rhamiel

    Rhamiel Member of the Round Table

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    the Orthodox would not be seen as heretical
    it would be that the Eastern Orthodox are in a state of schism from the Church

    schism, is still a serious sin
    ignorance, culture, familial ties, and other factors may lessen the culpability, or guilt, of such sins
    so only God can judge an individual
    but objectively, the Eastern Orthodox Church is in a state of Schism
     
  8. Rhamiel

    Rhamiel Member of the Round Table

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    well there is Formal Heresy, in which a person who has proper knowledge of the truth leaves the Catholic Church and joins a heretical sect

    then there is Material Heresy, which means that the nature of the sect that a person is part of is heretical

    so to be a Formal Heretic you have to be an Catholic who has the truth and leaves the Catholic Church
    but Material Heresy, you only have to be part of the sect


    for example, when we read books on the Gnostics, we just call them heretics, we do not really ask "well was this particular Gnostic a Catholic before he became a Gnostic? was he properly catechized?"
    no
    we just call him a heretic
    it seems in recent years, we only refer to Formal Heretics as Heretics
    but you can see a literary history of referring to Material Heretics as Heretics as well
     
  9. Sword of the Lord

    Sword of the Lord In need of a physician.

    +7,302
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    Schismatics, not heretics.

    I , my friend, would be the heretic. ^_^ ... Maybe, I don't know. I've nearly converted to Catholicism a few times. I've had this pull for a few years, but I can never seem to leave the LCMS. I feel at home and safe. I often wonder where that puts me according to the RCC: "So you like us, have almost joined us, but continue to stay outside the Church? You..."... and then I can never connect the dots following that question.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2015
  10. Simon_Templar

    Simon_Templar Not all who wander are lost

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    From the Catholic view point, the Orthodox Church is not heretical, but rather schizmatic.

    Heresy deals with the doctrines and dogmas that you believe. Catholics and Orthodox believe almost all the same things and most of the differences are within the bounds of freedom that the Church allows. In other words they are valid differences of opinion. (in most cases).

    Schizm deals with breaching the unity of the Church. The Orthodox and the Catholic Churches are not in communion because the Orthodox Churches do not acknowledge the authority of the Papacy.

    However, the Catholic Church believes that the Orthodox Church has valid sacraments etc.
     
  11. football5680

    football5680 Well-Known Member

    +1,493
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    Personally the only Orthodox Christians I would consider heretics would be people who were once Catholic and then left for the Orthodox Church. Theologically we hold most of our beliefs in common.

    The Orthodox Church is a schismatic Church, but I think this will be held against the leaders in the East who initiated the schism and not necessarily the common Christians who are not culpable for this tragedy.
     
  12. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 Reader

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    What about people who left the Catholic Church, became Orthodox, then came back as Eastern Catholics??? ;):p:p

     
  13. football5680

    football5680 Well-Known Member

    +1,493
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    They are in full communion with the Church so they are fine. :)
     
  14. Wryetui

    Wryetui IC XC NIKA

    +254
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    Well, then you think about us the same things we orthodox consider about you :p As being the schismatics who broke from the true church of Christ... I see the schism be far from over...
     
  15. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 Reader

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    Glad to know I have a 21-year-old's seal of approval! :p:p:p


     
  16. Sword of the Lord

    Sword of the Lord In need of a physician.

    +7,302
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    Why poke fun at his age? He is right. The ECC is in full communion with Rome. His age has nothing to do with anything. This only comes off as you telling him that he's not worthy to respond to you because he's young. I've seen a side to you lately that I've never noticed before and it's not good. But hey, I'm just 24 so whatever.
     
  17. AXO

    AXO Latin and Hispano-Mozarabic Rite, Roman Catholic

    261
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    I am greatly astonished by the replies given here. The Orthodox follow the heresy of the Greeks, at least materially, and are schismatics, as Rhamiel has explained.
    This assertion is simply aberrant.
     
  18. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

    +5,501
    Catholic
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    Lol. His Holiness is not about to declare anyone "saved", barring martyrs and Saints that have passed. Pope Francis is very much a Catholic, not some Southern USA book-club evangelical who believes that salvation can be determined before death.
     
  19. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 Reader

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    Initially I'm kidding because the first post WAS ME in the description!! If you'd have paid attention, you'd know that, Mike. My wife and I were Roman, then Orthodox, then E.C. I asked him if our situation met with the approval, just being silly. I wasn't angry at him or trying to be mean about his age. If you took the time to know people on here, you'd realize that.

    While I DO think some posters are wise beyond their years, in the end your 24 years versus my 40, well, I have 16 years on ya. If it hurts you that people have lived longer than you and perhaps have a little more wisdom and experience, then so be it.

    As far as seeing aside to me you hadn't noticed, I'm not sure what on EARTH you're talking about. But after reading your300 "I hate Obama" and obsessive death to Iran posts and how you live and breathe Republican Party this and that plus posts talking about Hillary Clinton like she's anti-Christ, not to mention constant anger in every comment, I guess I'd say right back at ya at this point??! :eek::eek::confused:

     
  20. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 Reader

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    ^_^

     
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