Salvation loss. Is it possible?

[ladodgers6]

Amen, I sure agree but many disagree when I say that we need to lead a repentant life in order not to perish.

Thanks for agreeing with me, that's refreshing. The Reformed Faith does teach repentance. But placing it in its proper category is key. If you confuse Justification with Sanctification, or Faith and Repentance then it becomes dangerous. Our good deeds or repentance flows from True Faith in Christ. They are distinct but not separated. They are like two links in a chain. Repentance will flow from true Faith. Repentance is the fruit of a living Faith as Luther puts it. We repent because we believe in Christ who came to save sinners. We believe in who He is, and believe what He has done for us! This is where stand before God. He is our Justification, Our Sanctification, and Our Redemption. Our evangelical works are tainted with sin. But being hidden in Christ we can perform them as if flawless. Because of our union with Christ. Am I denying a repentant Christian life? Once we lose focus of Christ and boast about our evangelical obedience we lose Christ! He is the object of our Salvation.

30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”

Mark 1:15 shows - Jesus said, "Repent and believe the good news". Both of the words "repent" and "believe" are Present Active Imperatives meaning that Jesus commands us to continue in repentance and belief.

Yes I agree that repent and believe is the proper response to the Gospel. But what you left out is what should I being believing in, and why should I repent? And you are mixing up the command with the Gospel. The good news is in Mark 1:15.......“The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”

Who is the Kingdom of God? Christ Jesus. Why has the kingdom come near to save the ungodly from their sins. So we believe in God who saves sinners. And we repent because we are made alive in Christ by God! This is the good news, which is why I provided Ezekiel 36, where God says, "27And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

I am just sharing with you, that even our faith & repentance is a gift from God. He gives us new hearts and removes the heart of stone to believe and follow him.

Then in Luke 13:3 Jesus said "Unless you repent, you too will all perish". "Repent" is Present Active Subjunctive meaning that we must continue in repentance otherwise we will perish.

Many say that ongoing repentance is works but the fact is, it is not works but a command from Jesus as these verses show.

I believe I have answered this. But I will provide one of my favorite passages from Paul here.

Galatians 2:
Justified by Faith

15We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16yet we know that a person is not justifiedb by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

17But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

 

[Dan61861]

I only know of one Gospel and that is the one announced by Jesus in Mark 1:15: "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!" Note that the words "repent" and "believe" are both Present Imperatives means that a believer must continue in repentance and belief.

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”

Jesus came, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God. The Gospel is of the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God is at hand. The time is fulfilled, it is time for man to repent and believe. We are commanded to repent and believe the Gospel.

• The Gospel

1. Jesus has come and died for our sins according to the scriptures.
2. He was buried.
3. He rose from the dead on the third day, according to the scriptures.
4. It was witnessed by many.

Believing the Gospel brings us into the Kingdom of God.

1. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
2. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
3. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
4. Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
5. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Jesus preached the Gospel. (Baptism represents Christ’s death, burial and resurrection.) When we are baptized, we die, we are buried and we are resurrected with Him.

1. Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
2. (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
3. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
4. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
5. After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

We repent of unbelief

1. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
2. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
3. Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
4. And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

We believe.

• Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

We confess our sins. We are sinners in need of a Savior. We are wretched, God alone is good.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[ChristianIssues]

Repentance will flow from true Faith.[/quote]

I sure agree and believe that failure to repent will result in salvation loss just as Luke 13:3 says.

Once we lose focus of Christ and boast about our evangelical obedience we lose Christ!

I believe that also.

Yes I agree that repent and believe is the proper response to the Gospel. But what you left out is what should I being believing in, and why should I repent?

We need to repent of sin. That is the context of Luke 13:1-9.

I am just sharing with you, that even our faith & repentance is a gift from God. He gives us new hearts and removes the heart of stone to believe and follow him.

I agree once again.

I may have missed something in what you have said as I believe we can lose our salvation, as Luke 12:42-46 says, but you disagree.

 

[Dan61861]

It's true that Jesus didn't lose any but Judas walked away as we are told in John 17.

Judas was not saved, he would not become saved, he could never become saved.

The Holy Spirit by the mouth of David spake concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. For He was numbered with us, and had obtain PART of this ministry.

For it is written in the book of Psalms, let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick. Let another take.

This had to be fulfilled.

Judas never believed.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Dan61861]

This particular Parable is about the Scribes and the Pharisee, and the way as unfaithful stewards they took care of Gods Kingdom.
They beat the menservants and maidservants of God, (The Jewish People)
They shall have their part with the unbelievers.

Be Blessed

Very well said.

The oracles of God were given to Israel. They were supposed to share it with the world. Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations. Instead, they used it to control the people.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[ChristianIssues]

Hello Dan,
I started this OP as a discussion on the parable in Luke 12:42-46 in which, I believe, the servant can either be rewarded when Jesus returns or condemned depending on his actions. What do you think of this parable?

Regarding repenting, I believe it is repenting of sin. In Acts 2:30 the people are told to repent for the forgiveness of sins. Also, in Luk 13:3 the context is sin and Jesus told the people to repent or perish. These two verses tell me that repenting is repenting from sin.

 

[ChristianIssues]

Judas was not saved, he would not become saved, he could never become saved.

The Holy Spirit by the mouth of David spake concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. For He was numbered with us, and had obtain PART of this ministry.

For it is written in the book of Psalms, let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick. Let another take.

This had to be fulfilled.

Judas never believed.

In Christ
Daniel

The argument is that Jesus lost none that were given to Him (John 6:39) but that is clearly wrong as later on in John 17:12 Jesus said, "While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled".

I can't believe Jesus chose an unsaved man as one of His disciples.

 

[Dan61861]

Hello Dan,
I started this OP as a discussion on the parable in Luke 12:42-46 in which, I believe, the servant can either be rewarded when Jesus returns or condemned depending on his actions. What do you think of this parable?

Regarding repenting, I believe it is repenting of sin. In Acts 2:30 the people are told to repent for the forgiveness of sins. Also, in Luk 13:3 the context is sin and Jesus told the people to repent or perish. These two verses tell me that repenting is repenting from sin.

The parable is to the Pharisee and Scribes. Israel was given the oracles of God. They were to share it with the world. Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations. Instead, they used it to control the people.

As far as Acts, the people were told to repent...stop their unbelief in God and Believe. When we Believe the Gospel...Christ and Him crucified our sins are than forgiven.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Dan61861]

The argument is that Jesus lost none that were given to Him (John 6:39) but that is clearly wrong as later on in John 17:12 Jesus said, "While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled".

I can't believe Jesus chose an unsaved man as one of His disciples.

Instead of reading it as a whole, you create a contradiction?
None were Lost that were given to Him. The eleven were given to Him.
The one that is lost, was never given to Him.

God uses the unsaved/lost all the time to fulfill His will.

In Christ
Daniel

BTW...no one was saved until Christ died, was buried and rose from the dead.

 

[Dan61861]

Think of it this way, if you were to sit and confess every sin you have committed in your life to have each one forgiven. You would never get up off of your knees. Then their are the ones that you just can't remember...

 

[ChristianIssues]

The parable is to the Pharisee and Scribes. Israel was given the oracles of God.

If you could find me just one commentary that agrees I would consider it. Every commentary I have says that the parable is talking about Jesus, the Master, being away. I believe it is telling us that He will return to either reward the faithful or condemn the unfaithful.

...............

Regarding repent, there is no doubt in my mind that it is talking about turning from sin -

Luke_17:4 says, "If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, 'I repent,' forgive him."
Clearly repent is associated with sin in this verse.

Rev_2:21 says, "I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling."
Clearly, repent is about sin in this verse.

Another clear verse -
Rev_2:22: "So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways."

Lastly, Luke 13:3 commands repentance and the context is sin - see vs.2, 4.

 

[Dan61861]

You fail to distinguish between works of the Law, works of the flesh which are those things done in our own strength which are condemned and do not save, and works of obedience to God which are never condemned and testify that a believer is saved. Works done out of obedience to the scriptures and leading of the Spirit are never condemned. Works demonstrate that we are saved and are the outward evidence of inward faith. That is why Js 2:24 states that we are JUSTIFIED by WORKS and not by faith alone and that faith without works is DEAD (Js 2:17). Faith and works are two sides of the same coin.

I agree, faith without works is dead. What works is James talking about?

 

[ChristianIssues]

None were Lost that were given to Him. The eleven were given to Him.
The one that is lost, was never given to Him.

Are you saying that Judas was not an Apostle?

 

[Dan61861]

If you could find me just one commentary that agrees I would consider it. Every commentary I have says that the parable is talking about Jesus, the Master, being away. I believe it is telling us that He will return to either reward the faithful or condemn the unfaithful.

...............

Jesus is the master that went away. He is the Tree of Life. God gave Israel the oracles of God, they beat and killed the prophets God sent to them. Christ is now telling them to belief in Him or they will be counted with the unbeliever.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[stuart lawrence]

The argument is that Jesus lost none that were given to Him (John 6:39) but that is clearly wrong as later on in John 17:12 Jesus said, "While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled".

I can't believe Jesus chose an unsaved man as one of His disciples.

Jesus would not choose an unsaved man to fulfill OT prophecy?

 

[Dan61861]

Are you saying that Judas was not an Apostle?

Not at all. He was there to fulfill what the Holy Spirit revealed in the Psalms. The eleven belonged to Jesus. Anyone who truly believes Belongs to Jesus. He has purchased us with His blood. Judas never belonged to Jesus.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Dan61861]

Are you saying that Judas was not an Apostle?

May I ask you.

Non Denom is very non descriptive. Can you give us a little more detail on your belief and history?

 

[Dan61861]

If God states He will finish what He has started in us.

Why would you not believe Him?

In Christ
Daniel

If He doesn't finish what He started...isn't He lying?

 

[Dan61861]

If Christ states that salvation is impossible with man, but nothing is impossible with God.

Why would men think salvation is in their hands?

In Christ
Daniel

 

[ChristianIssues]

Jesus is the master that went away. He is the Tree of Life. God gave Israel the oracles of God, they beat and killed the prophets God sent to them. Christ is now telling them to belief in Him or they will be counted with the unbeliever.

In Christ
Daniel

We seem to be reading different Bibles. In what verse does Jesus tell them to believe in Him?

Judas never belonged to Jesus.

So Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to Judas even though he wasn't saved? (Matt. 10:20 when Jesus sent out the twelve)

Non Denom is very non descriptive. Can you give us a little more detail on your belief and history?

I'm a standard Protestant I guess, non Charismatic. I go to a Salvation Army church in the evening and a Baptist church in the morning.

One thing I forgot to say is that in Luke 11:32, the Ninevites repented at Jonah's teaching ... does repent mean "believing in Jesus" in this verse?

Have to go to bed now.