Salvation in the OT before Christ, without the Spirit?

[PROPHECYKID]

Not everyone who believes in supersessionism becomes an antisemite, just as not everyone who smokes gets lung cancer. But supersessionism is the root cause of Christian antisemitism as surely as cigarettes cause lung cancer.

And Paul was not supersessionist. "The gifts and callings are irrevocable." "Theirs is the adoption to sonship; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises." PRESENT TENSE.

No its not. How is believing that every man is equal at the foot of the cross lead me to hate Jews?

 

[Open Heart]

No its not. How is believing that every man is equal at the foot of the cross lead me to hate Jews?

1. Supersessionism is a LOT more than believing every man is equal at the foot of the cross--we are all sinners in need of grace. I believe that we are all equal at the foot of the cross and yet I don't hold to Supersessionism.

I am also not saying that everyone who holds to Supersessionism hates Jews. Does everyone who smokes have lung cancer? No. And yet smoking causes lung cancer. In the same way, Supersessionism causes antisemitism.

Supersessionism is the idea that physical Israel is no longer Israel; that the Church is now Israel.

• God is done with them.
• The Jews are now cursed as a people.
• They no longer have any promises -- all their promises are now promises of the Church.

2. In General Theology I have a thread going that addresses exactly the question of the link between Supersessionism and antisemitism. Here is the link to the OP. Supersessionism and Antisemitism

 

[PROPHECYKID]

1. Supersessionism is a LOT more than believing every man is equal at the foot of the cross. I believe that we are all equal at the foot of the cross and yet I don't hold to Supersessionism.

2. In General Theology I have a thread going that addresses exactly the question of the link between Supersessionism and antisemitism. Here is the link to the OP. Supersessionism and Antisemitism

Well just the term Supersessionism was new to me but based on the link to the thread I definitely do not believed that the Jews are abandoned or cursed. I just believe that before the responsibility of evangelizing the world was given to Israel was given solely to Israel and because of their failure to accept him as a nation, he had to take away that privilege and now it is the responsibility of anyone who claims to be in Christ to evangelize the world. That's pretty much what I believe. I don't know what label that would fall under.

 

[Open Heart]

Well just the term Supersessionism was new to me but based on the link to the thread I definitely do not believed that the Jews are abandoned or cursed. I just believe that before the responsibility of evangelizing the world was given to Israel was given solely to Israel and because of their failure to accept him as a nation, he had to take away that privilege and now it is the responsibility of anyone who claims to be in Christ to evangelize the world. That's pretty much what I believe. I don't know what label that would fall under.

Well, it doesn't sound like you are a supersessionist.

I believe that the verse about being cut off from the root refers to not being the oracles of God since they do not spread the Gospel (although they are still a light unto the Gentiles in other ways).

But that same chapter of Scripture (Romans 11) supports them being loved, still having their calling and gifts from God, and even being saved (though they don't believe) based on God's love for the Patriarchs.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I think that this is not even on topic and I don't know why these things are even thrown into the mix. They are not edifying for anyone and that is not even the topic, so who is dragging this up?

It seems like this is an argument waiting to happen. Why some promote Jews as being better than anyone else or who act like even those who support Suppersesionist theology hate Jews is just putting bad feelings out there for someone to bite off a piece.

 

[sparow]

Hello brothers and sisters,


In light of my views that the Lord must change the heart/give us faith, do the initial work in salvation, how can I reconcile Salvation in the OT prior to Christ and the Holy Spirit indwelling the believer.

OT heroes were looking forward to the foreshadowing of the messiah to come, and had faith in God. Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:16

Since the Holy Spirit, was not poured out till after Christ accomplished his work on the cross. and since man needs the Lord to open the eyes and ears of the individual in order that they can believe, How were OT believers saved?

Is the opening of the heart/eyes/ears not the work of the Spirit? Was the spirit indwelling the believer in the OT?

God works differently or has a different role in the NT but is still the same God as the OT and the object is still the kingdom of God; these scriptures suggest the old covenant could produce eternal life: Luke 10:25-28, Matthew 19:16-19.