Salvation in its fourfold aspects !

[Brightfame52]

The Salvation of God in Christ in its biblical testimony is fourfold. Its presented from an eternal aspect, legal historical, subjective and finally glorification.

All men who shall ever be saved in and by Christ are first and foremost saved by and in Gods Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus, wherein Grace was given them in Him before the World began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Who hath saved us according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

From Gods Eternal perspective which perspective is outside of time, the Elect of God, those Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4, have always been saved from Gods Wrath to come for sin, in His Eternal Decree they have always been appointed to Salvation and not Wrath as others 1 Thess 5:9

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Yes, some and maybe even most of mankind have been appointed to wrath, Paul terms them the vessels of wrath which are fitted for destruction See Rom 9:21-22, but those appointed to mercy and salvation from everlasting are the vessels of mercy Rom 9:23-24; Ps 103:17

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I also created a thread on what I believe are the four aspects of salvation.
But my four aspects of salvation are different than yours (except for Glorification).

The Four Aspects of Salvation.

 

[Brightfame52]

Secondly, All men who shall ever be saved in and by Christ are saved legally and historically in time when the actual payment for their Salvation was accomplished at the Cross of Christ, It was
then He paid the full price for their Salvation, Jn 19:30. However be mindful as far as Gods Eternal Purpose in Christ was concerned, Christ had been slain from the foundation Rev 13:8 and foreordained to redeem Gods Elect before the world began 1Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, So the Saving Redeeming Effects of the Cross and Blood of Christ was before and after His Death in time, which historically is dated for 33 ad. In time He was made a curse for us [Gods Elect] and redeemed us from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13; Gal 4:4-5

So even from everlasting the Cross in time was focal !

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I looked at some of the verses you mentioned and it does not mean that the saints were saved before they were even born. This would mean that God forgives sin and saves us even during the time period we were in darkness and in our sins and before we were regenerated or born again. But Jesus says ye must be born again. Jesus says: “I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3).

“For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:” (Ephesians 5:8).

This shows a definite change. We were not in the light before we came to Christ. Jesus is the light of the world (John 8:12); And we cannot have life without the Son. For he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). How can we have an assurance that we know the Lord Jesus? If we keep His commandments (See: 1 John 2:3). However, the person who says they know the Lord Jesus and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them (See: 1 John 2:4). What truth is not in them? Jesus. For Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6).

So I would not confuse God's foreknowledge with salvation.
I believe God paid the price for all sins at the cross, and He conquered sin and death with His death, burial, and resurrection, but His dying for the world's sins was done on a provisional basis. Jesus paid the price so as to offer an alternate way of escape for men to be saved if they meet the Lord's conditions in receiving His gift and in being faithful with that gift. For if Jesus saved the whole world than that would mean we do not need to have faith in Jesus to be saved and all of humanity is saved. Meaning, this suggests Universalism (i.e. that all men will be saved in the end). But the Scriptures clearly do not teach that. Unless of course you hold to John Calvin's Limited Atonement in that Christ only died for the sins of the Elect and not anyone else. But I don't get that impression at all when reading the Scriptures.

For 1 John 2:2 says:

“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” (1 John 2:2).​

In other words, 1 John 2:2 says here that Jesus is the atoning sacrifice (or propitiation) for our sins (believer's sins), but also for the sins of the WHOLE world.

2 Peter 2:1 says:

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.” (2 Peter 2:1).​

In other words, 2 Peter 2:1 says that there are false prophets and false teachers who are able to deny the Lord who BOUGHT THEM. So Jesus bought these false teachers but that does not mean they are saved because you cannot deny the Lord Jesus and be saved according to Scripture.

“But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 10:33).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, salvation from an eternal aspect is not really biblical in my view if you are suggesting that God exists in all points in time like in fictional wordly time travel movies, and books, etc.

Nowhere does Scripture suggest that time operates like this. While God certainly has the power to exist in the past, present, and future simultaneously, I just do not see that is how things are revealed when we read the Scriptures. I do not see any mention of how God is now existing in some past dimension while also existing in the present and the future. If this was the case, then God could not have technically rested on the seventh day from his creating everything in six days. Also, Jesus made one sacrifice forever according to Hebrews 10:12. This means Jesus is not existing in some past dimension right now reliving the events of the cross over and over and over and over again. God operates in real time or linear time. God is simply aware of the future with pinpoint precision. Yes, the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world. But this is God speaking from His foreknowledge and He is not declaring all His saints to be saved before many of them would live a life of sin before accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior.

 

[Brightfame52]

I looked at some of the verses you mentioned and it does not mean that the saints were saved before they were even born. This would mean that God forgives sin and saves us even during the time period we were in darkness and in our sins and before we were regenerated or born again. But Jesus says ye must be born again. Jesus says: “I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3).

“For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:” (Ephesians 5:8).

This shows a definite change. We were not in the light before we came to Christ. Jesus is the light of the world (John 8:12); And we cannot have life without the Son. For he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). How can we have an assurance that we know the Lord Jesus? If we keep His commandments (See: 1 John 2:3). However, the person who says they know the Lord Jesus and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them (See: 1 John 2:4). What truth is not in them? Jesus. For Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6).

So I would not confuse God's foreknowledge with salvation.
I believe God paid the price for all sins at the cross, and He conquered sin and death with His death, burial, and resurrection, but His dying for the world's sins was done on a provisional basis. Jesus paid the price so as to offer an alternate way of escape for men to be saved if they meet the Lord's conditions in receiving His gift and in being faithful with that gift. For if Jesus saved the whole world than that would mean we do not need to have faith in Jesus to be saved and all of humanity is saved. Meaning, this suggests Universalism (i.e. that all men will be saved in the end). But the Scriptures clearly do not teach that. Unless of course you hold to John Calvin's Limited Atonement in that Christ only died for the sins of the Elect and not anyone else. But I don't get that impression at all when reading the Scriptures.

For 1 John 2:2 says:

“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” (1 John 2:2).​

In other words, 1 John 2:2 says here that Jesus is the atoning sacrifice (or propitiation) for our sins (believer's sins), but also for the sins of the WHOLE world.

2 Peter 2:1 says:

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.” (2 Peter 2:1).​

In other words, 2 Peter 2:1 says that there are false prophets and false teachers who are able to deny the Lord who BOUGHT THEM. So Jesus bought these false teachers but that does not mean they are saved because you cannot deny the Lord Jesus and be saved according to Scripture.

“But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 10:33).

I can see you have no idea what Im posting. Try reading without bias

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I can see you have no idea what Im posting. Try reading without bias

I re-read it and I have still come to the same conclusion. By your words, you appear to suggest that there is salvation for the saints even before they are born. That is how I read your words plainly. If that is not what you are saying, then the burden of clarity on your words rests on you to explain what they mean and it is not up to me to figure out what you stated you believe. Unless of course you want your words to be wrapped up in a mystery or riddle or something (Whereby only you retain this special knowledge). But what benefit do you have in doing that?

Paul says this.

“Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:” (2 Corinthians 3:12).

“To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.” (Colossians 1:27-29).

 

[Brightfame52]

I re-read it and I have still come to the same conclusion. By your words, you appear to suggest that there is salvation for the saints even before they are born. That is how I read your words plainly. If that is not what you are saying, then the burden of clarity on your words rests on you to explain what they mean and it is not up to me to figure out what you stated you believe. Unless of course you want your words to be wrapped up in a mystery or riddle or something (Whereby only you retain this special knowledge). But what benefit do you have in doing that?

Paul says this.

“Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:” (2 Corinthians 3:12).

“To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.” (Colossians 1:27-29).

So far I have given Salvation in how many aspects ?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So far I have given Salvation in how many aspects ?

That really does not explain the first aspect of salvation that you put forth, though.
Please explain in more detail your first aspect of salvation. In my four aspects of salvation, I go into plenty of detail on what each of those aspects mean so as not to leave room for any confusion.

The Four Aspects of Salvation.

Anyways, if I misunderstood your first aspect of salvation by the way that you wrote it, then it is up to you to explain how I misunderstood it and for you to properly paint us a picture of what it is really about.

You said, I quote:

“From Gods Eternal perspective which perspective is outside of time, the Elect of God, those Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4, have always been saved from Gods Wrath”
~ Quote by: Brightfame52.
​

Jesus says:

“...but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:18).

Did we always believe even before we came to Christ? Did not some believers hear of Christ before and yet they did not believe in Him and yet God changed their hearts later on in life? Were they saved during the time of their life prior while they did not believe in Christ? Jesus says that those who believe not are condemned. You say that the Elect has always been saved from God's wrath suggesting that they are saved before even being a believer.

So do you care to explain what you are talking about again? Or do you want your words to be shrouded in a mystery for nobody to be able to understand?

​

 

[Brightfame52]

That really does not explain the first aspect of salvation that you put forth, though.
Please explain in more detail your first aspect of salvation. In my four aspects of salvation, I go into plenty of detail on what each of those aspects mean so as not to leave room for any confusion.

The Four Aspects of Salvation.

Anyways, if I misunderstood your first aspect of salvation by the way that you wrote it, then it is up to you to explain how I misunderstood it and for you to properly paint us a picture of what it is really about.

You said, I quote:

“From Gods Eternal perspective which perspective is outside of time, the Elect of God, those Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4, have always been saved from Gods Wrath”
~ Quote by: Brightfame52.
​

Jesus says:

“...but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:18).

Did we always believe even before we came to Christ? Did not some believers hear of Christ before and yet they did not believe in Him and yet God changed their hearts later on in life? Were they saved during the time of their life prior while they did not believe in Christ? Jesus says that those who believe not are condemned. You say that the Elect has always been saved from God's wrath suggesting that they are saved before even being a believer.

So do you care to explain what you are talking about again? Or do you want your words to be shrouded in a mystery for nobody to be able to understand?

​

So in other words, you not interested in what Im saying !

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So in other words, you not interested in what Im saying !

Not sure how you got the line of thinking out of what I said. In reality, I was asking you to explain what you believed in more detail on your first aspect of salvation. I mean, do not explain it more in detail for me, but do it to help others because if I was confused in what you were trying to say on your 1st aspect of salvation most undoubtly others would be confused, as well. So clarity of what you mean is in order. That is if you want others to truly know what you are talking about. If not, then speak in riddles or a mystery. I mean, think about the golden rule, my friend. Jesus said do unto others as you want done unto yourself. Do you want others to tell you the truth on things in a shrouded mystery? Surely not. So all I am asking you to do is to clarify your belief and help me to understand it. Sure, I may not agree with it, but are you looking to just convince me alone or others?

So the ball is back in your court.

 

[Brightfame52]

Thirdly Salvation is subjectively by the Spirit and the Word of the Gospel. So every sinner that is saved by the eternal purpose of God, and the legal historical transaction of the cross in time, shall be saved subjectively. This means they will experience a new birth Spiritually by the Spirit Jn 3:6-8

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Now the saved sinner needs a Sovereign Act of the Spirit in them, in order to the saving that comes through the word of God . In other words there must be a saving by the Spirit before there can be a saving by the preached word. So in my opinion the bible teaches subjective Salvation in two parts, new birth and through the preached word. 2 Thess 2:13-14 sheds for that truth.

 

[Brightfame52]

bible highlighter

Not sure how you got the line of thinking out of what I said. In reality, I was asking you to explain what you believed in more detail on your first aspect of salvation.

Okay so you concerned about the eternal aspect of Salvation. Please review what I have stated about it, and we will converse from there. What points did i make with scripture ?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

bible highlighter



Okay so you concerned about the eternal aspect of Salvation. Please review what I have stated about it, and we will converse from there. What points did i make with scripture ?

I read it again, but I have no idea what you mean by the words that you written. For all I know, your first aspect of salvation could be like the Provisional Atonement whereby mankind's sin has been redeemed provisionally (so as to provide a way of escape), but in order for each person to be individually saved or personally saved, they have to accept Jesus Christ and His grace (Ephesians 2:8-9) (John 1:12) (Romans 10:13) (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and then enter the Sanctification Process and continue to believe the truth of God's Word (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

What I am asking is: Do you believe a saint is saved even while they were an unbeliever before they accepted Jesus Christ?

Simple question and I hope you can answer it to clarify what you believe instead of giving me the run around.

 

[Brightfame52]

I read it again, but I have no idea what you mean by the words that you written. For all I know, your first aspect of salvation could be like the Provisional Atonement whereby mankind's sin has been redeemed provisionally (so as to provide a way of escape), but in order for each person to be individually saved or personally saved, they have to accept Jesus Christ and His grace (Ephesians 2:8-9) (John 1:12) (Romans 10:13) (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and then enter the Sanctification Process and continue to believe the truth of God's Word (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

What I am asking is: Do you believe a saint is saved even while they were an unbeliever before they accepted Jesus Christ?

Simple question and I hope you can answer it to clarify what you believe instead of giving me the run around.

If you cant understand what Im saying, theres no reason to converse. Its very simple, Im presenting Salvation from its eternal perspective, cant you see the verse 2 Tim 1:9 ?

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Whose the us here ?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you cant understand what Im saying, theres no reason to converse. Its very simple, Im presenting Salvation from its eternal perspective, cant you see the verse 2 Tim 1:9 ?

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Whose the us here ?

Okay. I will ask you again but using different words.

Do you believe that any true saint is saved even in their old life whereby they are a sinning Christ rejecting person prior to their acceptance of Christ and in being regenerated (born again)?

Yes, or no?

Simple question.
By your response, I am getting the impression that this is a... “yes.”
But I would like to hear you agree with a firm yes to see if you truly believe this.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you cant understand what Im saying, theres no reason to converse. Its very simple, Im presenting Salvation from its eternal perspective, cant you see the verse 2 Tim 1:9 ?

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Whose the us here ?

2 Timothy 1:9 says,

“Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,” (1 Timothy 1:9) (KJB).​

The first part of 2 Timothy 1:9 that says, “Who hath saved us,” is in reference to their being saved by God's grace when they accepted Jesus Christ and the gospel for salvation. For he refers back to the gospel in 2 Timothy 1:8. The gospel is referred to our salvation upon which we stand (See: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). If we saved beforehand without the gospel, then believing gospel for salvation would not really be necessary.

As for the last part of 2 Timothy 1:9 that says, “which was given to us in Christ Jesus before the world began,”:

The word “given” here appears to imply your potential belief that we are saved prior to accepting Jesus Christ.
But is this true?
No, I don't believe so.
I believe it is an issue of outdated English.

While I believe the King James Bible is the perfect and pure Word of God, I also realize that the language is outdated at times, and we need to look at the context and compare it sometimes with Modern Translations (even though Modern Translations can be wrong sometimes).

Given can be defined as “to appoint to an office.” (See: BlueLetterBible definition below).

Source:
G1325 - didōmi - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

Our appointment would be our holy calling or in living a holy life.

“For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,” (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

“For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (1 John 3:8).​

We see in Ephesians 2:10 says,

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:10).​

We also see that one of the synonyms (or related words) for given is prearranged.

Source:
Given | Definition of Given by Webster's Online Dictionary

So if we reread 2 Timothy 1:9 and replace the word “given” with “prearrange” it makes more sense.

In fact, this is close to what we read in other translations with their use of the words “planned,” or “plan.”

“God saved us and chose us to be his holy people. We did nothing to deserve this, but God planned it because he is so kind. Even before time began God planned for Christ Jesus to show kindness to us.” (2 Timothy 1:9) (CEV).

“God saved us and called us to be holy, not because of what we had done, but because of his own plan and kindness. Before the world began, God planned that Christ Jesus would show us God’s kindness.” (2 Timothy 1:9) (GW).

“For God saved us and called us to live a holy life. He did this, not because we deserved it, but because that was his plan from before the beginning of time—to show us his grace through Christ Jesus.” (2 Timothy 1:9) (NLT).

“God saved us and called us to be holy, not because of what we had done, but because of his own plan and kindness. Before the world began, God planned that Christ Yeshua would show us God’s kindness.” (2 Timothy 1:9) (NOG).​

For this holy calling was God's plan.

“Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” (Titus 2:14).

“even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:25-27).​

So 2 Timothy 1:9 is not suggesting that the saints were saved in eternity's past. God planned them to be saved, and God set them apart (Elected them) to move things in their life to make conditions favorable for them to be saved (because of God's foreknowledge) (See: 1 Peter 1:1-2), but God did not save the saints prior to their acceptance of Jesus (if that is what you are implying).

 

[Brightfame52]

Okay. I will ask you again but using different words.

Do you believe that any true saint is saved even in their old life whereby they are a sinning Christ rejecting person prior to their acceptance of Christ and in being regenerated (born again)?

Yes, or no?

Simple question.
By your response, I am getting the impression that this is a... “yes.”
But I would like to hear you agree with a firm yes to see if you truly believe this.

You arent paying attention to my posts are you ? Im speaking about different aspects of Salvation and you wont pay attention.

 

[Brightfame52]

2 Timothy 1:9 says,

“Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,” (1 Timothy 1:9) (KJB).​

The first part of 2 Timothy 1:9 that says, “Who hath saved us,” is in reference to their being saved by God's grace when they accepted Jesus Christ and the gospel for salvation. For he refers back to the gospel in 2 Timothy 1:8. The gospel is referred to our salvation upon which we stand (See: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). If we saved beforehand without the gospel, then believing gospel for salvation would not really be necessary.

As for the last part of 2 Timothy 1:9 that says, “which was given to us in Christ Jesus before the world began,”:

The word “given” here appears to imply your potential belief that we are saved prior to accepting Jesus Christ.
But is this true?
No, I don't believe so.
I believe it is an issue of outdated English.

While I believe the King James Bible is the perfect and pure Word of God, I also realize that the language is outdated at times, and we need to look at the context and compare it sometimes with Modern Translations (even though Modern Translations can be wrong sometimes).

Given can be defined as “to appoint to an office.” (See: BlueLetterBible definition below).

Source:
G1325 - didōmi - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

Our appointment would be our holy calling or in living a holy life.

“For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,” (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

“For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (1 John 3:8).​

We see in Ephesians 2:10 says,

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:10).​

We also see that one of the synonyms (or related words) for given is prearranged.

Source:
Given | Definition of Given by Webster's Online Dictionary

So if we reread 2 Timothy 1:9 and replace the word “given” with “prearrange” it makes more sense.

In fact, this is close to what we read in other translations with their use of the words “planned,” or “plan.”

“God saved us and chose us to be his holy people. We did nothing to deserve this, but God planned it because he is so kind. Even before time began God planned for Christ Jesus to show kindness to us.” (2 Timothy 1:9) (CEV).

“God saved us and called us to be holy, not because of what we had done, but because of his own plan and kindness. Before the world began, God planned that Christ Jesus would show us God’s kindness.” (2 Timothy 1:9) (GW).

“For God saved us and called us to live a holy life. He did this, not because we deserved it, but because that was his plan from before the beginning of time—to show us his grace through Christ Jesus.” (2 Timothy 1:9) (NLT).

“God saved us and called us to be holy, not because of what we had done, but because of his own plan and kindness. Before the world began, God planned that Christ Yeshua would show us God’s kindness.” (2 Timothy 1:9) (NOG).​

For this holy calling was God's plan.

“Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” (Titus 2:14).

“even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.” (Ephesians 5:25-27).​

So 2 Timothy 1:9 is not suggesting that the saints were saved in eternity's past. God planned them to be saved, and God set them apart (Elected them) to move things in their life to make conditions favorable for them to be saved (because of God's foreknowledge) (See: 1 Peter 1:1-2), but God did not save the saints prior to their acceptance of Jesus (if that is what you are implying).

You arent listening to me sir. I decline to converse with you. Im going to complete posting the other aspects of Salvation and maybe you understand better what Im saying.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You arent listening to me sir. I decline to converse with you. Im going to complete posting the other aspects of Salvation and maybe you understand better what Im saying.

Yes, I have been reading your posts, dear sir. But people have a funny way of what they mean by their words. So I am asking for clarity by asking a simple question with you answering.... yes or no.

Again, I am not asking you to do anything hard here. A simple yes or no to my last question I asked you will clear up the confusion. But you refuse to answer with a simple.... yes, or no. Why is that?

Again, I ask you: Do you believe that the true saint is saved even in their old life whereby they are a sinning Christ rejecting person prior to their acceptance of Christ and in being regenerated (born again)?

Yes, or no?

Please answer.