Salvation: God's choice or our choice?

[JamesFW]

Salvation: God's choice or our choice?

One question: Who does the saving?

Do you desire to be saved?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

It has worked out just fine, for me and many other believers.

That's about the saddest thing I've read on CF in a long time.

 

[St_Worm2]

It has worked out just fine, for me and many other believers.

Hi James, if salvation is a matter of "keeping the commandments", where do things like grace and faith come in? What do they have to do with salvation? And if what you say is true, shouldn't Christians be referred to as "obeyers" rather than "believers"?

Also, if salvation is a matter of obeying the Law, what was the point of the Incarnation and the Cross? Why would God have ever sent His Son here to die like that if it was not absolutely necessary for Him to do so

Thanks!

Yours and His,
David

 

[PanDeVida]

So Jesus says to pick up the cross and follow Him, to get to eternal life.

But it also says in Scripture that God the Father can only call you to God the Son. The only reasons we follow Jesus is if God the Father wills it.

There is also a belief that only the elect chosen by God will follow Jesus.

In that sense...is it really our choice? Or His choice?

And if you think about it, that would mean that even if you try to follow Jesus, if you aren't part of the elect, then you won't be able to follow Him and thus won't receive eternal life. Then you'll burn in Hell for eternity, even if you believed you followed Him.

Hello, It is God the Fathers choice ALWAYS, but it is not always our choice. Have you not read John 6:66 below:

John 6:66After this many of his disciples went back; and walked no more with him.

Who's Choice was it, God the Father's or the disciples that went back and followed Him no more? Surely it was not God the Fathers choice nor Jesus Christ choice that they should walk no more with Him, it was their choice. Jesus Christ even asked if His original 12, if they wanted to leave Him as well. However, Peter and the rest of the 11 disciples CHOICE was to remain with our Lord.

Do you find it so, that they who left Jesus Christ is found in John 6:66 - which is the mark of the beast, for all who turn their back on Jesus Christ is an anti-christ. And the reason why they left Him was the FACT That Jesus Christ said: John 52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 54He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. 55For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.

They said to themselves "How can this man give us His Flesh to Eat" But they forgot, that Jesus Christ is not an ordinary man, He is the Son of God, who can do all things. Now do you partake of the Eucharist and Eat and Drink His Body and Blood, or do you leave Him as well, in this regard?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Hello, It is God the Fathers choice ALWAYS, but it is not always our choice. Have you not read John 6:66 below:

John 6:66After this many of his disciples went back; and walked no more with him.

Who's Choice was it, God the Father's or the disciples that went back and followed Him no more? Surely it was not God the Fathers choice nor Jesus Christ choice that they should walk no more with Him, it was their choice. Jesus Christ even asked if His original 12, if they wanted to leave Him as well. However, Peter and the rest of the 11 disciples CHOICE was to remain with our Lord.

Do you find it so, that they who left Jesus Christ is found in John 6:66 - which is the mark of the beast, for all who turn their back on Jesus Christ is an anti-christ. And the reason why they left Him was the FACT That Jesus Christ said: John 52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 54He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. 55For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him.

They said to themselves "How can this man give us His Flesh to Eat" But they forgot, that Jesus Christ is not an ordinary man, He is the Son of God, who can do all things. Now do you partake tf the Eucharist and Eat and Drink His Body and Blood, or do you leave Him as well, in this regard?

May I ask, why you think that Jesus didn't un after them to explain His teaching that caused them to leave?

 

[PanDeVida]

May I ask, why you think that Jesus didn't un after them to explain His teaching that caused them to leave?

Jimmy, why do you ask me, did not Jesus Christ himself answer/Explain it the best?

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello, It is God the Fathers choice ALWAYS, but it is not always our choice. Have you not read John 6:66 below:

John 6:66 After this many of his disciples went back; and walked no more with him.

Hi PDV, John 6:44/65 is pretty good evidence that salvation is the Father's choice too, don't you think?

John 6
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.​

65 ... no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.​

Yours and His,
David

 

[JamesFW]

That's about the saddest thing I've read on CF in a long time.

Sad? Really? Why do you not want to keep His commandments? This verse should stop you in your tracks and make you see what you are saying. What is sad is ignoring what John said.

1 John 2:4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hey @JamesFW, question, are you the member formerly known as @EmSw by any chance?

 

[PanDeVida]

Hi PDV, John 6:44/65 is pretty good evidence that salvation is the Father's choice too, don't you think?

John 6
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.​

65 ... no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.​

Yours and His,
David

Yes! Like I said it is ALWAYS the Fathers Choice that we be saved. Amen

What Father would hand His son a stone when he asked for a fish?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Hey @JamesFW, question, are you the member formerly known as @EmSw by any chance?

You have a good nose, David.

 

[St_Worm2]

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Jimmy, why do you ask me, did not Jesus Christ himself answer/Explain it the best?

Surely He could have persuaded them, right? If their eternal destiny hands in the balance, maybe some of them could have been convinced to stay.

 

[HenryM]

...is it really our choice? Or His choice?

No, it's not our choice. If God puts love for the truth in you, you will believe in Jesus. If God doesn't put love for the truth in you, you won't. You don't have a choice either way. It's a gift, so no one can boast. Not even by making a choice.

 

[bling]

You said this, so it relates, the killer was a 'good soldier of Satan' who took the punishment he fully deserved...

' The choice is not noble or worthy of anything like "Following Christ or Satan", but the choice is between wimping out, giving up and surrendering to your enemy or hanging in there, being macho, being willing to pay the piper, being willing to take the punishment you fully deserve and being a good soldier of satan.'

The punishment for sin is not physical death, but hell.

 

[Jesus4Ever]

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

And if we believe in Him we follow His commandments.

 

[St_Worm2]

...if we believe in Him we follow His commandments.

Right, but we don't follow His commandments to earn eternal life/become Christians, we follow His commandments because we already have eternal life, because we already are Christians

IOW, you have to be a Christian to act like a Christian!

 

[Marvin Knox]

And if we believe in Him we follow His commandments.

No one said otherwise.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Did you seek Him before that?

Yes. I sought Him after being drawn by God to the Son. Of course, that was before I was saved. One is not justified or saved until actually believing on the Son.

And where does it say the elect of God in Romans 3?

"My people". Kapeesh?

One is not saved by the writings of Paul.

"Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

Are you telling me a man can lose his salvation?

No.

If you don't believe that, why is it in your arsenal?

I don't believe that you are saved. I invite you to trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ at Calvary as your hope of salvation.

Aren't you the one misrepresenting yourself? You speak with a forked tongue.

No - I have not been sanctioned in this forum to the point where I had to change my name and pretend I was someone else as you have.

As has been my policy in the past - I will now break off discussions with you. I don't wish to give you a platform to preach your false gospel here in the thread.

You preach another gospel just as you did when you went by the name EmSw.

Whether we are talking about the false teachers of Galatians, "JamesFW", or "EmSw" - you are still preaching what Paul calls another gospel - which is not really a gospel at all.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Hey @JamesFW, question, are you the member formerly known as @EmSw by any chance?

I suspect he or she was sanctioned in the forum and had to reincarnate in another guise so he or she could continue preaching his or her false gospel.

Now that he or she's been outed - it wouldn't surprise me if there was another shape shift in the offing.