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Featured Salvation for the Dead

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by notforgotten, Jun 26, 2017.

  1. notforgotten

    notforgotten Child of God Supporter

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    It is common practice for the dead in purgatory to obtain indulgence from God through the Catholic Church for remission of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven (C.C.C., X. Indulgences). These indulgences are limited to those who die in the communion of saints (the faithful).

    The Churches fail to teach the complete redemptive work of Christ. The Gospel message of salvation is to be preached to all men of all times and in all places. We must learn to search scripture with the loving heart of Christ. Jesus holds the keys to death and Hades. The unfaithful dead in hell can be saved. Otherwise, the redemptive work of Christ would not be complete and we would fall short of the glory of God.

    Revelations 1:18. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

    Philippians 2:10. that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

    John 5:25. Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

    Our good works can be offered up to Christ as atonement for the sins of the unfaithful dead in hell. Atonement is necessary because they did not have faith in their lifetimes. This completes the gospel work of salvation. To say otherwise, is to cut short the redemptive work of Christ.

    2 Maccabees 12:46. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.

    Some of the dead today are commonly referred to as “shadow people”. I have seen thousands of these spirits. And, I have received divine guidance in regards to them.

    I urge those who have the dead in their lives or loved ones in hell to please listen.

    Zechariah 9:11. As for you, because of the blood of my covenant with you, I will free your prisoners from the waterless pit.

    It is all the same for God to free prisoners in this world from their captives as it is for Christ to free prisoners from their captives in the spirit world.

    There are various shades of darkness and white or light in the spirit world. In which two kingdoms exist...heaven and hell. The darker spirits are malevolent and are in hell. Here, you can find "shadow people" in scripture.

    Psalm 23:4. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

    Death surrounds us and we can see the shadows of the dead.

    Shadow people are generally malevolent spirits of the dead. They are the lost human souls of the netherworld. It is the human condition that we are evil and wicked without God in the afterlife. The soul is in ruins. And in need of salvation (divine restoration).

    Jesus descended into hell for three days to deliver the faithful dead with His sacrificial blood atonement.

    1 Peter 4:6. For this reason the gospel was preached also to the dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in spirit.

    And, it is by the power of God that salvation is made for us and the dead.

    1 Corinthians 1:18. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

    There is only one way to help these spirits. And that is by making atonement for their sins. In this way, their souls are restored by the divine power of Christ and they can be good spirits with their friends and family in heaven. Atonement is made by offering up our good works to the one and only risen King. One must be in good standing with God and have the door closed to these spirits before atonement will be accepted. This should be done as soon as possible.

    Leviticus 19:31. Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them; I am the Lord your God.

    Mediums and familiar spirits involve consulting the spirits of the dead. All contact with these or other spirits was strictly forbidden in Israel. It demonstrated lack of faith in and rebellion against God.

    Remember, atonement can also be made for our friends and loved ones in hell.
    1 Corinthians 15:19. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

    I find that offering up atonement to Christ for the sins of the unfaithful dead, to be of the utmost importance. These poor souls need our help. And, it is the only way that Christ’s Redemptive work of salvation is complete in it’s entirety.

    In conclusion, this, my friends, is the most loving thing you can do for these poor, lost souls. And, may God bless you for such an undertaking.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
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  2. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    That is a common worldly and sinful practice, yes, opposed to Jesus and contrary to all God's Word, those practices being originating from and immersed instead in pagan rites and rituals and beliefs and practices.
     
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  3. notforgotten

    notforgotten Child of God Supporter

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    So, you believe there is no hope for the dead?
     
  4. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Sorry, due to the TOS I'm not allowed to properly and fully answer that question (as far as I know).

    The dead are walking all over the earth, billions of them.
    Do they have any hope ?
    Mostly no.
    A few get saved.
    Most stay on the wide road to destruction, as God Says.
     
  5. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    Actually that is a really, really interesting point.

    Thank you for writing this out. I have a hope that something like Universal Reconciliation might be at least possible.
     
  6. notforgotten

    notforgotten Child of God Supporter

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    Why was the gospel also preached to the dead?

    1 Peter 4:6. For this reason the gospel was preached also to the dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in spirit.

    And why does Jesus hold the keys to hell if the door cannot be opened?
     
  7. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    That's called (most all the time) demonic visions. (caused by demons)
    Sorry, no.
    Scripture tells how to be saved,
    Jesus tells how to be saved,
    YHWH tells how to be saved,
    and a few listen and are saved because they do what He Says BEFORE they die -
    after they die, it is final, it is done, it is too late.
     
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  8. notforgotten

    notforgotten Child of God Supporter

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    I fear you underestimate God's love, my friend.
     
  9. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    Well, Sir, as someone who takes the Catholic approach to cannon, I'd argue that prayers for the dead are Scriptural, and helpful.

    And NotForgotten is correct, the Gospel was preached to the dead. Catholics and Orthodox recognize this as something called "the harrowing of Hell".
     
  10. notforgotten

    notforgotten Child of God Supporter

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    Attacking Gracia's love for the enemy of the dead is unjust and ungodly. It's a noble and excellent sight that she behold's.
     
  11. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    I served in the US Army Field Artillery for over 25 years and with many very good Catholic Redlegs. We all approached a cannon the very same way. From behind it as the business end was nowhere to be when firing a cannon.
     
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  12. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    No surprise there - tradition instead of and opposed to God's Word every day, by so many people in "church",
    won't make tradition right, ever -
    as God says "the wicked keep on getting more wicked" (not getting better).
     
  13. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    Sorry! That's how I thought "Canon" was spelled. I meant Canon.

     
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  14. Gracia Singh

    Gracia Singh Newbie Supporter

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    How do we know what is Scripture and what is not? The Catholic Church, Orthodox Churches, and Luther had their own respective canons. I'm looking at Scripture as one part of a wider set of Traditions which include theology, devotions, councils, and hierarchy. I get that many Protestants, and many Christians who want to be described as "Christians" take a stance of "if it's not spelled out in the Bible, I'm not accepting it. It's either Biblical, or a man-made superstition". But that's not how I see it at all.
     
  15. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Beliefs and practices like purgatory and indulgences are what happens when men pervert God's word (or abandon it outright) in an attempt to control other men.
     
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  16. notforgotten

    notforgotten Child of God Supporter

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    Here it is in Catholic scripture. Expiation for the dead.

    2 Maccabees 12:38-46.

    38 So Judas having gathered together his army, came into the city Odollam: and when the seventh day came, they purified themselves according to the custom, and kept the sabbath in the place.

    39 And the day following Judas came with his company, to take away the bodies of them that were slain, and to bury them with their kinsmen, in the sepulchres of their fathers.

    40 And they found under the coats of the slain some of the donaries of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbiddeth to the Jews: so that all plainly saw, that for this cause they were slain.

    41 Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden.

    42 And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain.

    43 And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,

    44 (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)

    45 And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.

    46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
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  17. notforgotten

    notforgotten Child of God Supporter

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    Not that I do not share doubts of purgatory, I do firmly believe in atonement for the dead in hell.

    I ask you, why would Jesus hold the keys to hell, if the door could not be opened?

    Jesus delivered the faithful dead when He descended into hell for three days before His resurrection.

    1 Peter 4:6. For this reason the gospel was preached also to the dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in spirit.

    Do you not believe in the eternal word of God?
     
  18. notforgotten

    notforgotten Child of God Supporter

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    It is, my friend. God's love is greater than most Christians believe. We should never underestimate God's love. Salvation does indeed, exist for the dead.
     
  19. notforgotten

    notforgotten Child of God Supporter

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    According to God's will, even the most wicked can be saved.

    1 Timothy 2:3-4. "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth"

    Mark 16:5. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

    Including, the unhealthy spiritual creatures of the dead, as our Lord had done before His resurrection. Are you not desiring to be one with Christ?
     
  20. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    While I laud your desire to be helpful to those in hell, I think it is a wasted effort. Those in hell got there because they rejected the love of God. They don't want it. They aren't there 'by mistake' or because they 'missed it by that much'. They decided that they WOULD NOT SERVE, and they are given their desire. It is a tragedy, but one they chose.

    Now you might take consolation in the fact that we know of no human being actually in hell. Judas and Hitler might not be in hell. The Catholic Church affirms nothing about hell actually being populated. Just that it does exist and that it is a terrible place with much gnashing of teeth.

    Above I said praying for those in hell was a wasted effort. But you don't know if a particular person actually is in hell. Your prayers might have some sort of benefit. If the person you are praying for is actually in hell, I'm sure God can make some other use of your prayer.

    If you want to maintain that praying for the dead in hell can redeem them, well, that simply isn't a Catholic position. But to pray for those whose status is unknown is a noble thing. So do pray. Just don't maintain you can pray a person out of hell, Not gonna work. The time for praying for such a person is before they die. St. John Chrysostom was particularly clear about that.
     
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