Salvation being by Christ alone and good v.s. bad fruit

[God saves]

Matthew 7:17-18 states "17 Even so every good tree bringeth :forth good fruit; but a corrupt :tree bringeth forth evil fruit 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." So a good tree brings good fruit and a corrupt tree brings evil fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:20 states "[Christ] who knew no sin became sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God." John 14:6 says "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Ephesians 2:8-2:9 states" For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

If salvation is in Christ alone, and a good tree bears good fruit and a corrupt tree bears evil fruit, if someone who claims to be a Christian commits a relatively serious (in the legal justice system) crime, what does it mean? Though I believe/it is my understanding that even what may be considered "minor" transgressions not punishable by the legal justice system are still serious and deserving of hell which Christ became a ransom for.

 

[Albion]

If salvation is in Christ alone, and a good tree bears good fruit and a corrupt tree bears evil fruit, if someone who claims to be a Christian commits a relatively serious (in the legal justice system) crime, what does it mean?

It doesn't mean that he, if he is genuinely a Christian, ordinarily bears evil fruit. All saved people still do fall at times, but the Bible passage here is speaking of the overall product of each person, good fruit or evil fruit.

Though I believe/it is my understanding that even what may be considered "minor" transgressions not punishable by the legal justice system are still serious and deserving of hell which Christ became a ransom for.

That's right. God is perfect and anything we do that is short of perfection is sin. The Bible says that even the just man falls seven times a day. However, this only shows us how wonderful the mercy and love of God for his creatures is, for him to justify humans because of the sacrifice of Christ and our Faith in him and that sacrifice.

 

[Andrewn]

If salvation is in Christ alone, and a good tree bears good fruit and a corrupt tree bears evil fruit, if someone who claims to be a Christian commits a relatively serious (in the legal justice system) crime, what does it mean?

Anyone may fall. A true Christian would repent.

Gal 6:1 Brothers, if a man is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore such a one in the spirit of meekness, watching yourselves, lest you also be tempted.

1Co 10:12 So, whoever thinks he stands must be careful not to fall.

Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Matthew 7:17-18 states "17 Even so every good tree bringeth :forth good fruit; but a corrupt :tree bringeth forth evil fruit 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." So a good tree brings good fruit and a corrupt tree brings evil fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:20 states "[Christ] who knew no sin became sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God." John 14:6 says "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Ephesians 2:8-2:9 states" For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

If salvation is in Christ alone, and a good tree bears good fruit and a corrupt tree bears evil fruit, if someone who claims to be a Christian commits a relatively serious (in the legal justice system) crime, what does it mean? Though I believe/it is my understanding that even what may be considered "minor" transgressions not punishable by the legal justice system are still serious and deserving of hell which Christ became a ransom for.

If we commit a serious or otherwise sin, we ne only ask forgiveness and repent, as that is the clear deal the father has set up for us because he knows we will sin on occasion.
The problem comes when we choose to live in sin, not concern ourselves with forgiveness.

 

[1213]

....If salvation is in Christ alone, and a good tree bears good fruit and a corrupt tree bears evil fruit, if someone who claims to be a Christian commits a relatively serious (in the legal justice system) crime, what does it mean? Though I believe/it is my understanding that even what may be considered "minor" transgressions not punishable by the legal justice system are still serious and deserving of hell which Christ became a ransom for.

I have understood salvation means sins are forgiven and so person is saved from the judgment that would come because of sin. It is a gift and can’t be earned. However, Bible tells eternal life is for righteous. And righteous person can be recognized from his works. Works are therefore like fruits that tell is the tree good or bad. Works are only a result of persons mind, if mind is righteous, it produces righteous works. And those who produce good “fruit” are suitable for eternal life.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

 

[BNR32FAN]

Anyone may fall. A true Christian would repent.

Gal 6:1 Brothers, if a man is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore such a one in the spirit of meekness, watching yourselves, lest you also be tempted.

1Co 10:12 So, whoever thinks he stands must be careful not to fall.

Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

Amen Peter denied Christ 3 times yet he was still saved because he repented.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I have understood salvation means sins are forgiven and so person is saved from the judgment that would come because of sin. It is a gift and can’t be earned. However, Bible tells eternal life is for righteous. And righteous person can be recognized from his works. Works are therefore like fruits that tell is the tree good or bad. Works are only a result of persons mind, if mind is righteous, it produces righteous works. And those who produce good “fruit” are suitable for eternal life.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

I don’t think the works come from the mind but from the heart. The heart that has been replaced by the Holy Spirit.

 

[dqhall]

Matthew 7:17-18 states "17 Even so every good tree bringeth :forth good fruit; but a corrupt :tree bringeth forth evil fruit 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." So a good tree brings good fruit and a corrupt tree brings evil fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:20 states "[Christ] who knew no sin became sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God." John 14:6 says "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Ephesians 2:8-2:9 states" For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

If salvation is in Christ alone, and a good tree bears good fruit and a corrupt tree bears evil fruit, if someone who claims to be a Christian commits a relatively serious (in the legal justice system) crime, what does it mean? Though I believe/it is my understanding that even what may be considered "minor" transgressions not punishable by the legal justice system are still serious and deserving of hell which Christ became a ransom for.

The way to forgiveness is learning to follow Christ’s instructions. Zacchaeus the tax collector repented.

Zacchaeus the Tax Collector
19 Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2 A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3 He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.

5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” 6 So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.

7 All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”

8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

 

[Neostarwcc]

Matthew 7:17-18 states "17 Even so every good tree bringeth :forth good fruit; but a corrupt :tree bringeth forth evil fruit 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." So a good tree brings good fruit and a corrupt tree brings evil fruit. 2 Corinthians 5:20 states "[Christ] who knew no sin became sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God." John 14:6 says "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Ephesians 2:8-2:9 states" For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

If salvation is in Christ alone, and a good tree bears good fruit and a corrupt tree bears evil fruit, if someone who claims to be a Christian commits a relatively serious (in the legal justice system) crime, what does it mean? Though I believe/it is my understanding that even what may be considered "minor" transgressions not punishable by the legal justice system are still serious and deserving of hell which Christ became a ransom for.

A Christian could technically commit a major crime and still be a regenerated Christian.

There are genuine Christians in prison right now that have murdered people, raped Children, raped women, stolen a car, drove drunk ...etc.

We all have sin natures whether we are born again or not. We ALL sometimes give into those sin natures whether we are born again or not. The difference between a genuine Christian in prison for these things and a non Christian in prison for these things is the fruit that they show in their daily lives while incarcerated.

What Jesus meant when he said we would know Christians by their fruits just simply means what he said. Example. Christian one professes to be Christian and when they came to Christ for salvation they repented of their sins, which means a full turn away from their sins, a confession of them, and a pleading to God to forgive them for those sins. Over the years since they professed to be Christian they donate regularly to Charity, they evangelize, they fear nothing, they are generally pure in heart and walk in the light, working each and every day that passes to put to death the sin nature that they had before. They mess up every once in a while and sometimes that mess up brings them into prison but even in prison they continue to do good works and make the best of their situation. While, Christian number two does the exact opposite. They came to Christ because they believed in easy believism they didn't repent from their sins, they think they can live however they want because they've been "cleansed by the blood of Jesus" they do NOT give to charity but instead want to hang onto every last penny of their money. They don't obey the bible and consider the bible sexist, Paul a Misogynistic pig and they generally commit crimes and do not submit to authority. When told a basic fact like "You accepted Jesus now you are slaves of Christ" they hate the very idea of being a slave to ANYONE.

Which one has been genuinely regenerated by the Holy Spirit? I thought so. That's what Jesus meant. There are regenerated Christians everywhere dealing with all different kinds of sins. The difference is, when we accept Christ, we put to DEATH our sins and became slaves of Christ the very moment we were regenerated. Make sense now?

 

[1213]

I don’t think the works come from the mind but from the heart. ..

Ok, to me they mean basically the same.

 

[Andrewn]

I don’t think the works come from the mind but from the heart. The heart that has been replaced by the Holy Spirit.

This depends on what you mean by "mind" and "heart." In contemporary English, the "mind" is the seat of thinking and the "heart' is the seat of emotions, so you'd probably be wrong.

But in the Bible the "heart" is the seat of spiritual thinking (nous) and you'd be right. The issue is further complicated by translation of the Gr word "nous" into "mind" in English. So, in translation the "mind" and "heart" are the same as @1213 said.

 

[Andrewn]

A Christian could technically commit a major crime and still be a regenerated Christian. There are genuine Christians in prison right now that have murdered people, raped Children, raped women, stolen a car, drove drunk ...etc. We all have sin natures whether we are born again or not. We ALL sometimes give into those sin natures whether we are born again or not.

This is horrible theology. Regeneration is the objective work of God in a believer's life. Spiritually, it means that God brings Christians to new life or "born again" from a previous state of separation from God and subjection to the decay of death (Ephesians 2:5).

1Jo 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

 

[God saves]

A Christian could technically commit a major crime and still be a regenerated Christian.

There are genuine Christians in prison right now that have murdered people, raped Children, raped women, stolen a car, drove drunk ...etc.

We all have sin natures whether we are born again or not. We ALL sometimes give into those sin natures whether we are born again or not. The difference between a genuine Christian in prison for these things and a non Christian in prison for these things is the fruit that they show in their daily lives while incarcerated.

What Jesus meant when he said we would know Christians by their fruits just simply means what he said. Example. Christian one professes to be Christian and when they came to Christ for salvation they repented of their sins, which means a full turn away from their sins, a confession of them, and a pleading to God to forgive them for those sins. Over the years since they professed to be Christian they donate regularly to Charity, they evangelize, they fear nothing, they are generally pure in heart and walk in the light, working each and every day that passes to put to death the sin nature that they had before. They mess up every once in a while and sometimes that mess up brings them into prison but even in prison they continue to do good works and make the best of their situation. While, Christian number two does the exact opposite. They came to Christ because they believed in easy believism they didn't repent from their sins, they think they can live however they want because they've been "cleansed by the blood of Jesus" they do NOT give to charity but instead want to hang onto every last penny of their money. They don't obey the bible and consider the bible sexist, Paul a Misogynistic pig and they generally commit crimes and do not submit to authority. When told a basic fact like "You accepted Jesus now you are slaves of Christ" they hate the very idea of being a slave to ANYONE.

Which one has been genuinely regenerated by the Holy Spirit? I thought so. That's what Jesus meant. There are regenerated Christians everywhere dealing with all different kinds of sins. The difference is, when we accept Christ, we put to DEATH our sins and became slaves of Christ the very moment we were regenerated. Make sense now?

You mean that you believe there are genuine Christian in prison who have committed those crimes (especially those that are considered very serious such as murder and rape), who converted to the Lord Jesus Christ after they committed those crimes, or you mean that you believe that there are genuine Christians in prison who committed those crimes even after they converted to the Lord Jesus Christ?