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LDS Salvation as used in the scriptures does not mean physical resurrection alone

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Phoebe Ann, Dec 7, 2017 at 4:53 AM.

  1. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ

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    Mormonism teaches that some of the sons of perdition will be resurrected beings. So how do Mormons define salvation and what is eternal life?
     
  2. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    Salvation

    "The following explanations outline six different meanings of the word salvation."

    It's all right there.
     
  3. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ

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    Sons of perdition are condemned to Outer Darkness according to Mormonism.

    The followers of Satan who will suffer with him in eternity. Sons of perdition include (1) those who followed Satan and were cast out of heaven for rebellion during premortality and (2) those who were permitted to be born to this world with physical bodies but then served Satan and turned utterly against God. Those in this second group will be resurrected from the dead but will not be redeemed from the second (spiritual) death and cannot dwell in a kingdom of glory (D&C 88:32, 35).
    Sons of Perdition
     
  4. fatboys

    fatboys Senior Veteran

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    There are very few persons who have been born into mortality that would qualify for outer darkness. They would have had to have perfect knowledge of God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ.
     
  5. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ

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    That is totally beside the point. Physical resurrection still isn't salvation. Were you planning to answer the question?

    So how do Mormons define salvation and what is eternal life?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017 at 12:45 AM
  6. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    The link to the full definition is in my post.

    Did you see it?
     
  7. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ

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    Ensign, April 1981:
    While the resurrection of the dead is certainly an integral part of the plan of salvation, and is unconditional and independent of men’s works, the term salvation as used in the scriptures does not mean physical resurrection alone. As Elder Bruce R. McConkie has pointed out, salvation is synonymous with exaltation:

    Salvation in its true and full meaning is synonymous with exaltation or eternal life and consists in gaining an inheritance in the highest of the three heavens within the celestial kingdom. With few exceptions this is the salvation of which the scriptures speak. It is the salvation which the saints seek.” (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966, p. 670.)
    Gerald N. Lund, Salvation:, Ensign, april 1981
    Salvation: - ensign
     
  8. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    Did you see the link I posted?

    If so, then did you read what was at the link?
     
  9. fatboys

    fatboys Senior Veteran

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    It is a part of salvation that all who have been born is given because they sided with God in the Great War in heaven. They are saved from physical death. Salvation means your saved. Eternal salvation means that you are saved from not living with God. Exaltation means that your desired is to eternally progress from eternity to eternity so we become like our father in heaven.
     
  10. withwonderingawe

    withwonderingawe Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Immortality is the resurrection. Everyone will be resurrected.

    Eternal life is life as God knows it, it's inheriting all that he has. To become one with him.

    I think McConkie's point was we should understand we have been saved from physical death now let's move on and keep our eye single to God. Let's repent of our sins, let's follow his walk.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017 at 7:08 AM
  11. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    I am pretty sure she did not, since at one time she could not see your posts. Don't know if that's still the case...
     
  12. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    Those who followed lucifer in the war in heaven and were thrown out of heaven and down to the earth, will never receive a body and therefore will never need to be resurrected. They are the sons of perdition (sons of satan).

    There are some who followed Jesus in the war in heaven that came to earth and received a body. They had the opportunity to know Jesus personally on the earth, but rejected him openly and chose satan as their god. These mortals who did this (Cain is the perfect example of this type of mortal) shall be resurrected but will find themselves in the same place that satan and his followers (the other sons of perdition) will be for eternity.
     
  13. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ

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    That was basically my point. Salvation isn't resurrection alone.

    While the resurrection of the dead is certainly an integral part of the plan of salvation, and is unconditional and independent of men’s works, the term salvation as used in the scriptures does not mean physical resurrection alone.
    Gerald N. Lund, Ensign, April 1981


    Salvation and eternal life are synonymous, are they not?

    Resurrection isn't salvation; it doesn't give a person eternal life. I quoted Gerald N. Lund:

    While the resurrection of the dead is certainly an integral part of the plan of salvation, and is unconditional and independent of men’s works, the term salvation as used in the scriptures does not mean physical resurrection alone.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017 at 9:36 PM
  14. withwonderingawe

    withwonderingawe Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I suppose we could say there are three elements or parts to salvations.

    1, salvation from physical death. Without Christ resurrection we could not be resurrected. Once we died we would have to remain in spirit form. The resurrection is a free gift given to all.

    2, Salvation from sin and having to pay for those sin; faith, forgiveness, mercy and grace come into play.

    3, Salvation from separation from God the Father. It doesn't matter how many good works we do we are always unprofitable servants. But if we keep our eye single to his glory he will fill us with his light. And we will become one with him.
     
  15. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ

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    You still don't understand that the point of the thread is that salvation is eternal life.

    The gift of God is eternal life! HE gives the gift; we don't pay for it because Jesus already did!

    Romans 6
    23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    gift
    noun
    something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present.

    Christian Gift of Eternal Life.jpg


    "You deserve your wages. You don't deserve a free gift. Otherwise it wouldn't be free."
    John Piper
     
  16. withwonderingawe

    withwonderingawe Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes we will always be the unprofitable servant but still a servant.
     
  17. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    Salvation is not as simple as believing in Jesus and he will give you a free gift of salvation/eternal life. Salvation is a process, more like withwonderingawe speaks of.

    The scriptures tell us that salvation is a process. One gift of salvation is voluntarily given to all men, and that is the salvation from physical death. No amount of works will give you the ability to raise yourself from the grave. Only the gift of immortality can be given by Jesus Chist.

    Immortality though is not eternal life. The gift of eternal life is given voluntarily to only those that believe in Christ. It is easy to know who really believe in Christ and those who just say they believe in Christ.

    It is this part of salvation that requires that you demonstrate your love of Jesus Christ by keeping his commandments. As James says, 'faith without works is dead'.

    This is the part of salvation that determines if you will be in the highest or the lowest KOH. By your works will you be judged as the book of Revelations says. Those who believe in Christ and are steeped in good works will find themselves in the highest KOH. Those who say they love Jesus but do not demonstrate that love will find themselves in a lower KOH.

    It is your choice. But again, do not rely on just a few scriptures from the bible, you must rely on the whole bible for your salvation.
     
  18. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ

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    You're not telling me anything that I wasn't told in you church. Believing in Jesus is a GIFT and a BLESSING.

    Mormonism makes it impossible to not earn a blessing. If you don't earn it, you don't get it. Everyone earned resurrection by being worthy of mortality.

    "There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—
    And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated."
    Doctrine and Covenants 130:20-21

    This is a good thing to remember. Often in this life we want something for nothing. We want our parents, or the government, or our employers, or our spouses to do more for us, and take care of us in a more luxurious way, while requiring minimal effort... preferably none. And we want the same thing from God. I mean, why not just have someone drop a winning lottery ticket on the sidewalk in front of us? A new house or a new car or free LEGOs. You know, whatever it takes. He's all-powerful, right?
    We forget sometimes that instead of being an IOU, a game, or an all-you-can-indulge cornucopia of plenty, this life is actually a school, or testing ground. And we get out of it in direct relation to what we put into it... magnified by the Lord, of course, but it still requires effort to learn. We can't sit back and learn everything by osmosis. We have to actively engage, overcome roadblocks, search our hearts, develop relationships, and--kind of the point of these verses--learn to obey. That doesn't mean that we're dogs, or that the Lord is teaching us to beg on command. What it does mean is that many lessons and almost all success requires disciplined effort. We don't just slouch into the Olympics, or wander into a PhD.
    Scriptural Commentary: D&C 130:20-21 -- On Effort and Obedience

    Sorry --- but you can't earn it!

    Resurrrection is FREE and it isn't earned; it also is NOT salvation. Salvation is eternal life.

    In Mormonism salvation must be earned by obedience. Eternal life is your wages for obedience.

    "3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."
    Articles of Faith 1

    God has NEVER given any Christian dead faith! Don't accuse Him of that and don't claim that we give ourselves faith or that we earn it. That would be a false teaching.

    Salvation doesn't come in parts.

    Mormonism teaches that there are three kingdoms and the highest is separated into three levels. Those in the highest level have eternal life --- so say your leaders.

    LDS Key Cannot be Found on Street
    “The ordinances of the temple, the endowment and sealings, pertain to exaltation[Eternal Life] in the celestial kingdom, where the sons and daughters are. The sons and daughters are not outside in some other kingdom. The sons and daughters go into the house, belong to the household, have access to the home. ‘In my Father’s house are many mansions’ [John 14:2]. Sons and daughters have access to the home where he dwells, and you cannot receive that access until you go to the temple. Why? Because you must receive certain key words as well as make covenants by which you are able to enter. If you try to get into the house, and the door is locked, how are you going to enter, if you haven’t your key? You get your key in the temple, which will admit you.“. . . You cannot find a key on the street, for that key is never lost that will open the door that enters into our Father’s mansions. You have got to go where the key is given. And each can obtain the key, if you will; but after receiving it, you may lose it, by having it taken away from you again unless you abide by the agreement which you entered into when you went into the house of the Lord.” -Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:40–41

    According to Mormon scripture, the Lord has to pay you your wages if you do the work:

    Doctrine and Covenants 82
    10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.


    There is no lower kingdom or higher kingdom of heaven. There is only ONE kingdom of heaven just as there is only ONE God.

    God has already chosen to have mercy on me. I don't deserve it! I can't earn it! I believe the Bible --- ALL of it. Mormons don't believe all of it and don't believe what it says about salvation or God.

    Those who LOVE Jesus are being sanctified. They are forgiving others, they love God, they love their brothers and sisters, they help the poor and the hungry. They don't deserve eternal life. God in His mercy has saved them to do His will and to let their lights shine.

    True believers will receive the inheritance of eternal life.

    • "We love him, because he first loved us."
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017 at 5:08 PM
  19. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ

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    Christian 2 tim 316.gif
    call-him-jesus.jpg
     
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