SALVATION ACCORDING TO THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM

msortwell

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There are those who hold that there are TWO gospels described in the New Testament (i.e., a "gospel of the kingdom" and a "gosel of grace").

A question to those who hold such a belief . . . Please explain the soteriology under each of these two gospels.
 
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msortwell

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I believe they are one and the same !

The question is intended to get the perspective of those who believe that there are two different gospels. Do you agree that the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace are different, and both valid (one for the Jew and the other for the gentile)?
 
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Brightfame52

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The question is intended to get the perspective of those who believe that there are two different gospels. Do you agree that the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace are different, and both valid (one for the Jew and the other for the gentile)?
I just told you what I believe. I believe they are the same. The Gospel Paul preached was given to him by Jesus Christ, and he preached it to jews and greeks Rom 1:15-16

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

And Paul Jesus Christ Servant, is adamant that there is only one Gospel Gal 1:8-9
 
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msortwell

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I just told you what I believe. I believe they are the same. The Gospel Paul preached was given to him by Jesus Christ, and he preached it to jews and greeks Rom 1:15-16

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

And Paul Jesus Christ Servant, is adamant that there is only one Gospel Gal 1:8-9

From what you provided, it seems that we are in agreement. But that doesn’t help to meet the purpose of this thread. I want to know what those who believe there are TWO gospels believe saves a man under each “gospel.”
 
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Brightfame52

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From what you provided, it seems that we are in agreement. But that doesn’t help to meet the purpose of this thread. I want to know what those who believe there are TWO gospels believe saves a man under each “gospel.”
Hopefully someone will provide that.
 
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What makes a man right before God within the context of the Gospel of the Kingdom?

Matthew 5:22-24 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.[23] Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;[24] Leave there thy gift before the altar and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Matthew 18:21-35 So likewise shall My Heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Matthew 7:24-25 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man which built his house upon the rock:[25] and the rain descended and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house: and it fell not, for it was founded upon the rock.

John 17:6-8 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were and Thou gavest them Me and they have kept Thy word.[7] Now they have known that all things whatsoever Thou hast given Me are of Thee.[8] For I have given unto them the words which Thou gavest Me, and they have received them and have known surely that I came out from Thee, and they have believed that Thou didst send Me.

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren like thee, and I will put My words in His mouth and He shall speak to them as I shall Command Him.[19] And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in My name, I will take vengeance on him.LXX (John 5:43-47, John 12:48-50)

Providing text with which we are all familiar is not answering the question. To answer the question (I.e., How is a man right before God within the context of the Gospel of the Kingdom?) it is necessary that you explain how those Scripture quotes address the question. Am I correct in inferring (based on the highlighted text) that you believe that man under the GOK is right before God if he is obedient to the commands of the promised Prophet, the Messiah?

You understand my point, because you've actually noticed the theme behind the text I've made bold.

The Father gave the Son the words that He spoke to His Disciples, to whom He says He came in His Father's name. And because the Father sent the Son only unto these Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, Matthew 15:24, the Son sent His pupils only unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, as well. This Gospel of the Kingdom is also the message for the Other Sheep of John 10:16. It is the Father's Gospel, prophesied in Isaiah 52:4-7, and fulfilled in Matthew 4:23 and Matthew 10:5-7 and Matthew 24:14. And because this Reign of Sion's God was prophesied specifically for these same Lost Sheep which were carried away by the Assyrians, it is THE good news to preach in order to find these 10-Lost-Tribes of the House of Israel.

Therefore, the people who claim there is only one gospel seem not to want these Lost Sheep found; but their feeble understanding of the Pauline gospel makes the whole world into the gentile's property... and makes the House of Judah's Jews into gentiles. I don't know if they comprehend the ramifications of their words, or if those words have been taught to them by some Matthew 23:8-10 deniers... but it all has the effect of closing-off this channel that the Father created in order to find the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. And I have asked some of these gentiles what harm it does them, to let the circumcision have their own separate gospel... yet none have answered that question. Instead, they just keep tossing Paul's words at my head as though Saul of Tarsus should be the boss of everyone.

Must this obedience to the commands of the prophet-Messiah be perfect for one to be judged righteous by God?

Yes, because Repent + Forgive are built into this Gospel of the Kingdom. It gives us room to grow, and sometimes growing means making mistakes. Some of the sins just go away, never to be done again. Some take time to even recognize as sins... often because they're perversions of that which is intrinsically good.

This Gospel is the fulfillment of "the Sure Mercies of David"... where David's bones ached because of his sin in taking that female who openly bathed where the King could see her... and David repented on his knees and in tears. Did that mean he never took another wife/concubine? It should have, if it didn't. One wife/one husband is the rule. Not one husband and a thousand wives.

But Peter asks how often to forgive, 7 times a day? And the Son answers 7x70 times every day, in Matthew 18. This is what grace for grace means... we have been forgiven in order to forgive. But both people must be like-minded brethren following the same gospel, taught by one shepherd: The Son.

So . . . you are required to achieve perfect obedience, or you do not stand as right before God.

How are sins of the past addressed? Are they forgiven? If so, by what means - upon what basis?

John 15:13-14 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down His life for His friends.[14] Ye are My friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

John 11:25-27 Ιησους said unto her, I am the resurrection and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live;[26] and whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?[27] She saith unto Him, Yea, Lord: I believe that Thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

John 14:2 In My Father's house are many mansions, if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Revelation 12:7-8 And there was war in Heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in Heaven.

John 19:28-30 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.[29] Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put [it] upon hyssop, and put [it] to His mouth.[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is (teleo) finished: and He bowed His head, and gave up the ghost.KJV

Exodus 12:21-27 And Moses called all the elders of the children of Israel, and said to them, Go away and take to yourselves a lamb according to your kindreds, and slay the passover.[22] And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and having dipped it into some of the blood that is by the door, ye shall touch the lintel, and shall put it upon both door-posts, even of the blood which is by the door; but ye shall not go out every one from the door of his house till the morning. ... [26] And it shall come to pass, if your sons say to you, What is this service?[27] that ye shall say to them, "This passover is a sacrifice to the Lord, as He defended the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when He smote the Egyptians, but delivered our houses."LXX

Deuteronomy 12:23 Take diligent heed that thou eat no blood, for blood is the life of it; the life shall not be eaten with the flesh.LXX

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth.

Please answer the question regarding the atonement for past sins.

The answer depends on the person.

John 9:39-41 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.[40] And [some] of the Pharisees which were with Him heard these words, and said unto Him, "Are we blind also?"[41] Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, "We see," therefore your sin remaineth.
(Matthew 13:13-15, Matthew 15:12-14)

Matthew 4:12-17 Now when Ιησους had heard that John was cast into prison He departed into Galilee.[13] And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:[14] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying:[15] The land of Zabulon and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea beyond Jordan, Galilee of the nations;[16] the people which sat in darkness saw great light, and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.[17] From that time Ιησους began to preach and to say: Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.
(Matthew 13:10-12, Matthew 13:16-17)

_________________________
The Passover Lamb of God

John 19:28-30 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.[29] Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put [it] upon hyssop, and put [it] to His mouth.[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is finished: and He bowed His head and gave up the ghost.KJV

Exodus 12:21-27 And Moses called all the elders of the children of Israel, and said to them, Go away and take to yourselves a lamb according to your kindreds, and slay the passover.[22] And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and having dipped it into some of the blood that is by the door, ye shall touch the lintel and shall put it upon both door-posts, even of the blood which is by the door, but ye shall not go out every one from the door of his house till the morning.[23] And the Lord shall pass by to smite the Egyptians, and shall see the blood upon the lintel and upon both the door-posts, and the Lord shall pass by the door and shall not suffer the destroyer to enter into your houses to smite you.[24] And keep ye this thing as an ordinance for thyself and for thy children for ever.[25] And if ye should enter into the land, which the Lord shall give you, as he has spoken, keep this service.[26] And it shall come to pass, if your sons say to you, What is this service?[27] that ye shall say to them, This passover is a sacrifice to the Lord, as He defended the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when He smote the Egyptians, but delivered our houses.
Exodus 12:43-48 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, This is the law of the passover: no stranger shall eat of it.[44] And every slave or servant bought with money--him thou shalt circumcise and then shall he eat of it.[45] A sojourner or hireling shall not eat of it.[46] In one house shall it be eaten, and ye shall not carry of the flesh out from the house, and a bone of it ye shall not break.[47] All the congregation of the children of Israel shall keep it.[48] And if any proselyte shall come to you to keep the passover to the Lord, thou shalt circumcise every male of him, and then shall he approach to sacrifice it, and he shall be even as the original inhabitant of the land; every (απερίτμητος) uncircumcised one shall not eat of it.LXX

The means of atonement for past sins for those under the Gospel of the Kingdom varies based upon a person's partcular circumstance? Please provide some particular examples, so that we can understand your position.

Again, quoting Scriptures, with which we are all familiar, does not answer the question. We need you to provide explanations of how those particular texts should be understood - and how it is that this understanding supports the conclusion regarding how the past sins of you and yours are forgiven.

This is from a thread in the Covenant Theology forum.
 
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Ligurian

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I believe they are one and the same !

So does Jesus.
:rolleyes:
Books, Chapters, and Verses, please.

I just told you what I believe. I believe they are the same. The Gospel Paul preached was given to him by Jesus Christ, and he preached it to jews and greeks Rom 1:15-16

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

And Paul Jesus Christ Servant, is adamant that there is only one Gospel Gal 1:8-9

Because of Luke not actually being IN Jerusalem or IN Samaria or IN Galilee?
What would you think without Luke?
What would you think if the words "unto you" were not in Galatians 1:8?
Does the whole world have Paul as the boss of them?
Or was there a pre-existing Gospel BEFORE Paul came back from Arabia?
Maybe taught in Galilee... about the time JohnB was sent to prison?
Say, in Matthew 4:23, maybe?
Kinda hard to believe "christ crucified" was being taught THEN, dontcha think?
Especially by the Son-->sent by the Father-->only unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, in Matthew 15:24... who sent His pupils-->only unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel Matthew 10:5-7... and Matthew 28:18-20, which includes both sets of verses... sent them-->into the world where these Lost Sheep of the House of Israel are STILL scattered.
Kinda hard to make a gentiles-gospel out of that.
Especially since Paul's gospel was mysteries & doctrines never taught by the Son to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.
And the Father's Gospel-->the Son, has parables never taught by Paul, and a Sermon on the Mount never taught by Paul, and Deuteronomy 18:18-19..., etc.
 
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Brightfame52

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:rolleyes:
Books, Chapters, and Verses, please.



Because of Luke not actually being IN Jerusalem or IN Samaria or IN Galilee?
What would you think without Luke?
What would you think if the words "unto you" were not in Galatians 1:8?
Does the whole world have Paul as the boss of them?
Or was there a pre-existing Gospel BEFORE Paul came back from Arabia?
Maybe taught in Galilee... about the time JohnB was sent to prison?
Say, in Matthew 4:23, maybe?
Kinda hard to believe "christ crucified" was being taught THEN, dontcha think?
Especially by the Son-->sent by the Father-->only unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, in Matthew 15:24... who sent His pupils-->only unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel Matthew 10:5-7... and Matthew 28:18-20, which includes both sets of verses... sent them-->into the world where these Lost Sheep of the House of Israel are STILL scattered.
Kinda hard to make a gentiles-gospel out of that.
Especially since Paul's gospel was mysteries & doctrines never taught by the Son to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.
And the Father's Gospel-->the Son, has parables never taught by Paul, and a Sermon on the Mount never taught by Paul, and Deuteronomy 18:18-19..., etc.
Paul preaching was from the ot scripture 1 Cor 15:3-4
 
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Ligurian

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What would you think if the words "unto you" were not in Galatians 1:8?
Does the whole world have Paul as the boss of them?
Or was there a pre-existing Gospel BEFORE Paul came back from Arabia?
Maybe taught in Galilee... about the time JohnB was sent to prison?
Say, in Matthew 4:23, maybe?
Kinda hard to believe "christ crucified" was being taught THEN, dontcha think?
Especially by the Son-->sent by the Father-->only unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, in Matthew 15:24... who sent His pupils-->only unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel Matthew 10:5-7... and Matthew 28:18-20, which includes both sets of verses... sent them-->into the world where these Lost Sheep of the House of Israel are STILL scattered.
Kinda hard to make a gentiles-gospel out of that.
Especially since Paul's gospel was mysteries & doctrines never taught by the Son to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.
And the Father's Gospel-->the Son, has parables never taught by Paul, and a Sermon on the Mount never taught by Paul, and Deuteronomy 18:18-19..., etc.

Paul preaching was from the ot scripture 1 Cor 15:3-4

From where in the Old Testament is 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 being quoted? In context, is the verse about those who don't keep the Law? If the gentiles are grandfathered into THAT place in time, aren't they also subject to the curses under the Law which are fulfilled in the Revelation?

If your OT-based idea is true then Paul's gospel wasn't a mystery (Ephesians 6:19), was it? Unless there were other things Paul taught in his gospel that nobody else knew about... like parts of 1 Corinthians 15:5-8. If I were you, I'd have to look in Luke's writings for this "scripture" Paul references.

Personally, from the WAY that he writes, I think that Paul considered ALL of his teachings to be his gospel to the gentiles.
 
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From where in the Old Testament is 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 being quoted?

It could be from a variety of places. Its according to the scripture. What scripture was exiting during Pauls time ?

When Philip preached from the scripture to the ethiopian it was from Isaiah

Acts 8:27-35

27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.

29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Paul could have been referring to the same scripture as Philip was. Are you familiar with Isaiah ? Is it scripture to you ? Did Philip preach Christ from that OT scripture ? Was the ethiopian a gentile ?
 
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Brightfame52

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If your OT-based idea is true then Paul's gospel wasn't a mystery (Ephesians 6:19), was it?

Yeah, the Mystery mainly comprised of the Gentiles being included in the OT Gospel Promises Eph 3:3-6

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

See when OT scriptures referred to Gospel promises made to Israel like Jer 31:31-34

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

What the Mystery was is that gentiles here are included in and are fellowheirs with the House of Israel to whom the promises were made. You understand now ?
 
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Paul preaching was from the ot scripture 1 Cor 15:3-4

From where in the Old Testament is 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 being quoted? In context, is the verse about those who don't keep the Law? If the gentiles are grandfathered into THAT place in time, aren't they also subject to the curses under the Law which are fulfilled in the Revelation?

If your OT-based idea is true then Paul's gospel wasn't a mystery (Ephesians 6:19), was it? Unless there were other things Paul taught in his gospel that nobody else knew about... like parts of 1 Corinthians 15:5-8. If I were you, I'd have to look in Luke's writings for this "scripture" Paul references.

Personally, from the WAY that he writes, I think that Paul considered ALL of his teachings to be his gospel to the gentiles.

It could be from a variety of places. Its according to the scripture. What scripture was exiting during Pauls time ?

When Philip preached from the scripture to the ethiopian it was from Isaiah

Acts 8:27-35

Paul could have been referring to the same scripture as Philip was. Are you familiar with Isaiah ? Is it scripture to you ? Did Philip preach Christ from that OT scripture ? Was the ethiopian a gentile ?

Acts of the Apostles 8:30-33 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:[33] In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

Esaias, Isaiah 53:5-8 But He was wounded on account of our sins and was bruised because of our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon Him and by His bruises we were healed.[6] All we as sheep have gone astray, every one has gone astray in his way, and the Lord gave Him up for our sins.[7] And He, because of His affliction, opens not His mouth. He was led as a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before the shearer is dumb, so He opens not His mouth.[8] In His humiliation His judgment was taken away. Who shall declare His generation? for His life is taken away from the Earth, because of the iniquities of My people He was led to death.LXX

Interesting that Acts doesn't quote the whole verse. But that Ethiopian had the whole context in front of him, and should have known that this Isaiah verse is not about the gentiles.

Yeah, the Mystery mainly comprised of the Gentiles being included in the OT Gospel Promises Eph 3:3-6

Ephesians 3:3-7 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,[4] Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)[5] Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;[6] That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:[7] Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

See when OT scriptures referred to Gospel promises made to Israel like Jer 31:31-34

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

What the Mystery was is that gentiles here are included in and are fellowheirs with the House of Israel to whom the promises were made. You understand now ?

Does Paul really say all the prophecies about Juda or Israel are about the gentiles? If so, then Jacob's Trouble is also applied to grafted-in-spiritual-israel.

Because if Israel is chastened because she didn't keep the Law and had turned to strange doctrines her fathers never knew, then the same thing applies to those who take the names of Israel or Juda: God chastens for the sake of His name. If you wear the name "Israel", then you will be chastened in the Revelation. If you are "the Israel of God", then you will receive His wrath.

Now, a little more context is needed for that verse you quoted.
The background for the context is Idolotry.


Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down to them, nor serve them; for I am the Lord thy God, a jealous God, recompensing the sins of the fathers upon the children, to the third and fourth generation to them that hate Me,[6] and bestowing mercy on them that love Me to thousands of them, and on them that keep My Commandments.LXX

Jeremiah 31:29-30 In those days they shall certainly not say, The fathers ate a sour grape and the children’s teeth were set on edge.[30] But every one shall die in his own sin; and the teeth of him that eats the sour grape shall be set on edge.

Jeremiah 31:31-36 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda:[32] not according to the Covenant which I made with their fathers in the day when I took hold of their hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; for they abode not in My Covenant, and I disregarded them, saith the Lord.[33] For this is My Covenant which I will make with the house of Israel; after those days, saith the Lord, I will surely put My Laws into their mind and write them on their hearts, and I will be to them a God and they shall be to Me a people.[34] And they shall not at all teach every one his fellow citizen, and every one his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them: for I will be merciful to their iniquities, and their sins I will remember no more. {the undivided family of Jacob}

"they shall not at all teach every one his fellow citizen"

...is not what Paul taught:

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

...it is what the 12 Disciples are taught about the Kingdom:

Matthew 23:8-10 Neither be ye called teachers: for one is your Teacher: Christ.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring: and they shall hear My voice, and there shall be one fold, one shepherd.
(Matthew 15:24, Deuteronomy 18:18-19, John 17:6-8, Matthew 10:5-7)

\\\\\\//////
Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises [made] unto the fathers:
Romans 9:5 Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever.
Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel.

(The House of Judah is desolate, in Matthew 23:37-38. The Father knew the House of Judah in Jerusalem would kill His Son; so He sent the Son to the House of Israel in Galilee. And they are gathering the harvest of the Kingdom of God in Matthew 10:5-7 ...from Matthew 9:35-38... bringing forth the fruits of the Kingdom of God, Matthew 21:43.)



Romans 9:24-25 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?[25] As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Paul apparently doesn't have the Hosea scroll, and quotes it out of context.

Because "Not My People" was a name given to the genetic House of Israel, because God had given them divorce papers, Isaiah 50:1. But God drags them through the chastening, and redeems them for the sake of His name, betrothing them to Himself forever. In Jeremiah, Ephraim, head of the House of Israel, says he repents, and uses the very same words that Hosea told us would be said to the Father: "Thou art the Lord My God." So,"and her beloved" is the House of Israel. And "My people, which were Not My People" are also the House of Israel... because they are redeemed and betrothed.

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.(Matthew 13:9)

Hosea 1:1-11
[1] The word of the Lord which came to Osee the son of Beeri, in the days of Ozias, and Joatham, and Achaz, and Ezekias, kings of Juda, and in the days of Jeroboam son of Joas, king of Israel.
[2] The beginning of the word of the Lord by Osee. And the Lord said to Osee, Go, take to thyself a wife of fornication, and children of fornication: for the land will surely go a-whoring in departing from the Lord.
[3] So he went and took Gomer, daughter of Debelaim; and she conceived, and bore him a son.[4] And the Lord said to him, Call his name Jezrael; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezrael on the house of Juda, and will make to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.[5] And it shall be, in that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezrael.
[6] And she conceived again, and bore a daughter. And he said to him, Call her name, Unpitied: for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel, but will surely set Myself in array against them.
[7] But I will have mercy on the house of Juda, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them with bow, nor with sword, nor by war, nor by horses, nor by horsemen.
[8] And she weaned Unpitied; and she conceived again, and bore a son.[9] And he said, Call his name, Not My people: for ye are not My people, and I am not your God.
[10] Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God.
[11] And the children of Juda shall be gathered, and the children of Israel together, and shall appoint themselves one head, and shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezrael.

Hosea 2:1-23
[1] Say to your brother, My people, and to your sister, Pitied.[2] Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, and I am not her husband: and I will remove her fornication out of my presence, and her adultery from between her breasts:[3] that I may strip her naked, and make her again as she was at the day of her birth: and I will make her desolate, and make her as a dry land, and will kill her with thirst.[4] And I will not have mercy upon her children; for they are children of fornication.[5] And their mother went a-whoring: she that bore them disgraced them: for she said, I will go after my lovers, that give me my bread and my water, and my garments, and my linen clothes, my oil and my necessaries.
[6] Therefore, behold, I hedge up her way with thorns, and I will stop the ways, and she shall not find her path.[7] And she shall follow after her lovers, and shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them: and she shall say, I will go, and return to my former husband; for it was better with me than now.
[8] And she knew not that I gave her her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied silver to her: but she made silver and gold images for Baal.[9] Therefore I will return, and take away my corn in its season, and my wine in its time; and I will take away my raiment and my linen clothes, so that she shall not cover her nakedness.[10] And now I will expose her uncleanness before her lovers, and no one shall by any means deliver her out of My hand.[11] And I will take away all her gladness, her feasts, and her festivals at the new moon, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn assemblies.[12] And I will utterly destroy her vines, and her fig-trees, all things of which she said, These are my hire which my lovers have given me: and I will make them a testimony, and the wild beasts of the field, and the birds of the sky, and the reptiles of the earth shall devour them.[13] And I will recompense on her the days of Baalim, wherein she sacrificed to them, and put on her ear-rings, and her necklaces, and went after her lovers, and forgot Me, saith the Lord.
[14] Therefore, behold, I will cause her to err, and will make her as desolate, and will speak comfortably to her.[15] And I will giver her possessions from thence, and the valley of Achor* to open her understanding: and she shall be afflicted there according to the days of her infancy, and according to the days of her coming up out of the land of Egypt.
[16] And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord, that she shall call Me, My husband, and shall no longer call me Baalim.[17] And I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and their names shall be remembered no more at all.[18] And I will make for them in that day a covenant with the wild beasts of the field, and with the birds of the sky, and with the reptiles of the earth: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle from off the earth, and will cause thee to dwell safely.[19] And I will betroth thee to myself for ever; yea, I will betroth thee to myself in righteousness, and in judgment, and in mercy, and in tender compassions;[20] and I will betroth thee to Myself in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the Lord.
[21] And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord, I will hearken to the heaven, and it shall hearken to the earth;[22] and the earth shall hearken to the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hearken to Jezrael.[23] And I will sow her to me on the earth; and will love her that was not loved, and will say to that which was not My people, Thou art My people; and they shall say, Thou art the Lord my God.LXX

Jeremiah 31:18-20 I have heard the sound of Ephraim lamenting, and saying, Thou hast chastened me and I was chastened. I as a calf was not willingly taught: turn Thou me and I shall turn, for Thou art the Lord my God.[19] For after my captivity I repented, and after I knew I groaned for the day of shame, and shewed Thee that I bore reproach from my youth.[20] Ephraim is a beloved son, a pleasing child to me, for because My words are in him I will surely remember him. Therefore I made haste to help him, I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.(LXX, Jeremias 38:18-20)

__________________
* The Valley of Achor

valley_of_achor.jpg
 
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Brightfame52

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Acts of the Apostles 8:30-33 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:[33] In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

Esaias, Isaiah 53:5-8 But He was wounded on account of our sins and was bruised because of our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon Him and by His bruises we were healed.[6] All we as sheep have gone astray, every one has gone astray in his way, and the Lord gave Him up for our sins.[7] And He, because of His affliction, opens not His mouth. He was led as a sheep to the slaughter, and as a lamb before the shearer is dumb, so He opens not His mouth.[8] In His humiliation His judgment was taken away. Who shall declare His generation? for His life is taken away from the Earth, because of the iniquities of My people He was led to death.LXX

Interesting that Acts doesn't quote the whole verse. But that Ethiopian had the whole context in front of him, and should have known that this Isaiah verse is not about the gentiles.



Ephesians 3:3-7 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,[4] Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)[5] Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;[6] That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:[7] Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.



Does Paul really say all the prophecies about Juda or Israel are about the gentiles? If so, then Jacob's Trouble is also applied to grafted-in-spiritual-israel.

Because if Israel is chastened because she didn't keep the Law and had turned to strange doctrines her fathers never knew, then the same thing applies to those who take the names of Israel or Juda: God chastens for the sake of His name. If you wear the name "Israel", then you will be chastened in the Revelation. If you are "the Israel of God", then you will receive His wrath.

Now, a little more context is needed for that verse you quoted.
The background for the context is Idolotry.


Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down to them, nor serve them; for I am the Lord thy God, a jealous God, recompensing the sins of the fathers upon the children, to the third and fourth generation to them that hate Me,[6] and bestowing mercy on them that love Me to thousands of them, and on them that keep My Commandments.LXX

Jeremiah 31:29-30 In those days they shall certainly not say, The fathers ate a sour grape and the children’s teeth were set on edge.[30] But every one shall die in his own sin; and the teeth of him that eats the sour grape shall be set on edge.

Jeremiah 31:31-36 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda:[32] not according to the Covenant which I made with their fathers in the day when I took hold of their hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; for they abode not in My Covenant, and I disregarded them, saith the Lord.[33] For this is My Covenant which I will make with the house of Israel; after those days, saith the Lord, I will surely put My Laws into their mind and write them on their hearts, and I will be to them a God and they shall be to Me a people.[34] And they shall not at all teach every one his fellow citizen, and every one his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them: for I will be merciful to their iniquities, and their sins I will remember no more. {the undivided family of Jacob}

"they shall not at all teach every one his fellow citizen"

...is not what Paul taught:

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

...it is what the 12 Disciples are taught about the Kingdom:

Matthew 23:8-10 Neither be ye called teachers: for one is your Teacher: Christ.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring: and they shall hear My voice, and there shall be one fold, one shepherd.
(Matthew 15:24, Deuteronomy 18:18-19, John 17:6-8, Matthew 10:5-7)

\\\\\\//////
Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises [made] unto the fathers:
Romans 9:5 Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever.
Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel.

(The House of Judah is desolate, in Matthew 23:37-38. The Father knew the House of Judah in Jerusalem would kill His Son; so He sent the Son to the House of Israel in Galilee. And they are gathering the harvest of the Kingdom of God in Matthew 10:5-7 ...from Matthew 9:35-38... bringing forth the fruits of the Kingdom of God, Matthew 21:43.)



Romans 9:24-25 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?[25] As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Paul apparently doesn't have the Hosea scroll, and quotes it out of context.

Because "Not My People" was a name given to the genetic House of Israel, because God had given them divorce papers, Isaiah 50:1. But God drags them through the chastening, and redeems them for the sake of His name, betrothing them to Himself forever. In Jeremiah, Ephraim, head of the House of Israel, says he repents, and uses the very same words that Hosea told us would be said to the Father: "Thou art the Lord My God." So,"and her beloved" is the House of Israel. And "My people, which were Not My People" are also the House of Israel... because they are redeemed and betrothed.

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.(Matthew 13:9)

Hosea 1:1-11
[1] The word of the Lord which came to Osee the son of Beeri, in the days of Ozias, and Joatham, and Achaz, and Ezekias, kings of Juda, and in the days of Jeroboam son of Joas, king of Israel.
[2] The beginning of the word of the Lord by Osee. And the Lord said to Osee, Go, take to thyself a wife of fornication, and children of fornication: for the land will surely go a-whoring in departing from the Lord.
[3] So he went and took Gomer, daughter of Debelaim; and she conceived, and bore him a son.[4] And the Lord said to him, Call his name Jezrael; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezrael on the house of Juda, and will make to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.[5] And it shall be, in that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezrael.
[6] And she conceived again, and bore a daughter. And he said to him, Call her name, Unpitied: for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel, but will surely set Myself in array against them.
[7] But I will have mercy on the house of Juda, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them with bow, nor with sword, nor by war, nor by horses, nor by horsemen.
[8] And she weaned Unpitied; and she conceived again, and bore a son.[9] And he said, Call his name, Not My people: for ye are not My people, and I am not your God.
[10] Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God.
[11] And the children of Juda shall be gathered, and the children of Israel together, and shall appoint themselves one head, and shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezrael.

Hosea 2:1-23
[1] Say to your brother, My people, and to your sister, Pitied.[2] Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, and I am not her husband: and I will remove her fornication out of my presence, and her adultery from between her breasts:[3] that I may strip her naked, and make her again as she was at the day of her birth: and I will make her desolate, and make her as a dry land, and will kill her with thirst.[4] And I will not have mercy upon her children; for they are children of fornication.[5] And their mother went a-whoring: she that bore them disgraced them: for she said, I will go after my lovers, that give me my bread and my water, and my garments, and my linen clothes, my oil and my necessaries.
[6] Therefore, behold, I hedge up her way with thorns, and I will stop the ways, and she shall not find her path.[7] And she shall follow after her lovers, and shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them: and she shall say, I will go, and return to my former husband; for it was better with me than now.
[8] And she knew not that I gave her her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied silver to her: but she made silver and gold images for Baal.[9] Therefore I will return, and take away my corn in its season, and my wine in its time; and I will take away my raiment and my linen clothes, so that she shall not cover her nakedness.[10] And now I will expose her uncleanness before her lovers, and no one shall by any means deliver her out of My hand.[11] And I will take away all her gladness, her feasts, and her festivals at the new moon, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn assemblies.[12] And I will utterly destroy her vines, and her fig-trees, all things of which she said, These are my hire which my lovers have given me: and I will make them a testimony, and the wild beasts of the field, and the birds of the sky, and the reptiles of the earth shall devour them.[13] And I will recompense on her the days of Baalim, wherein she sacrificed to them, and put on her ear-rings, and her necklaces, and went after her lovers, and forgot Me, saith the Lord.
[14] Therefore, behold, I will cause her to err, and will make her as desolate, and will speak comfortably to her.[15] And I will giver her possessions from thence, and the valley of Achor* to open her understanding: and she shall be afflicted there according to the days of her infancy, and according to the days of her coming up out of the land of Egypt.
[16] And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord, that she shall call Me, My husband, and shall no longer call me Baalim.[17] And I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and their names shall be remembered no more at all.[18] And I will make for them in that day a covenant with the wild beasts of the field, and with the birds of the sky, and with the reptiles of the earth: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle from off the earth, and will cause thee to dwell safely.[19] And I will betroth thee to myself for ever; yea, I will betroth thee to myself in righteousness, and in judgment, and in mercy, and in tender compassions;[20] and I will betroth thee to Myself in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the Lord.
[21] And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord, I will hearken to the heaven, and it shall hearken to the earth;[22] and the earth shall hearken to the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hearken to Jezrael.[23] And I will sow her to me on the earth; and will love her that was not loved, and will say to that which was not My people, Thou art My people; and they shall say, Thou art the Lord my God.LXX

Jeremiah 31:18-20 I have heard the sound of Ephraim lamenting, and saying, Thou hast chastened me and I was chastened. I as a calf was not willingly taught: turn Thou me and I shall turn, for Thou art the Lord my God.[19] For after my captivity I repented, and after I knew I groaned for the day of shame, and shewed Thee that I bore reproach from my youth.[20] Ephraim is a beloved son, a pleasing child to me, for because My words are in him I will surely remember him. Therefore I made haste to help him, I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.(LXX, Jeremias 38:18-20)

__________________
* The Valley of Achor

valley_of_achor.jpg
Why did you spam up the thread ? The OT scriptures contained the Gospel of Christ and Paul and Philip used them to Preach the Gospel to Gentiles.
 
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Hosea 1--Hosea 2: "Not My People" was a name given to the genetic House of Israel, because God had given them divorce papers, Isaiah 50:1. But God drags them through the chastening, and redeems them for the sake of His name, betrothing them to Himself forever. In Jeremiah, Ephraim, head of the House of Israel, says he repents, and uses the very same words that Hosea told us would be said to the Father: "Thou art the Lord My God." So,"and her beloved" is the House of Israel. And "My people, which were Not My People" are also the House of Israel... because they are redeemed and betrothed.

Hosea 1:1-11
[1] The word of the Lord which came to Osee the son of Beeri, in the days of Ozias, and Joatham, and Achaz, and Ezekias, kings of Juda, and in the days of Jeroboam son of Joas, king of Israel.
[2] The beginning of the word of the Lord by Osee. And the Lord said to Osee, Go, take to thyself a wife of fornication, and children of fornication: for the land will surely go a-whoring in departing from the Lord.
[3] So he went and took Gomer, daughter of Debelaim; and she conceived, and bore him a son.[4] And the Lord said to him, Call his name Jezrael; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezrael on the house of Juda, and will make to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.[5] And it shall be, in that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezrael.
[6] And she conceived again, and bore a daughter. And he said to him, Call her name, Unpitied: for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel, but will surely set Myself in array against them.
[7] But I will have mercy on the house of Juda, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them with bow, nor with sword, nor by war, nor by horses, nor by horsemen.
[8] And she weaned Unpitied; and she conceived again, and bore a son.[9] And he said, Call his name, Not My people: for ye are not My people, and I am not your God.
[10] Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God.
[11] And the children of Juda shall be gathered, and the children of Israel together, and shall appoint themselves one head, and shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezrael.

Hosea 2:1-23
[1] Say to your brother, My people, and to your sister, Pitied.[2] Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, and I am not her husband: and I will remove her fornication out of my presence, and her adultery from between her breasts:[3] that I may strip her naked, and make her again as she was at the day of her birth: and I will make her desolate, and make her as a dry land, and will kill her with thirst.[4] And I will not have mercy upon her children; for they are children of fornication.[5] And their mother went a-whoring: she that bore them disgraced them: for she said, I will go after my lovers, that give me my bread and my water, and my garments, and my linen clothes, my oil and my necessaries.
[6] Therefore, behold, I hedge up her way with thorns, and I will stop the ways, and she shall not find her path.[7] And she shall follow after her lovers, and shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them: and she shall say, I will go, and return to my former husband; for it was better with me than now.
[8] And she knew not that I gave her her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied silver to her: but she made silver and gold images for Baal.[9] Therefore I will return, and take away my corn in its season, and my wine in its time; and I will take away my raiment and my linen clothes, so that she shall not cover her nakedness.[10] And now I will expose her uncleanness before her lovers, and no one shall by any means deliver her out of My hand.[11] And I will take away all her gladness, her feasts, and her festivals at the new moon, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn assemblies.[12] And I will utterly destroy her vines, and her fig-trees, all things of which she said, These are my hire which my lovers have given me: and I will make them a testimony, and the wild beasts of the field, and the birds of the sky, and the reptiles of the earth shall devour them.[13] And I will recompense on her the days of Baalim, wherein she sacrificed to them, and put on her ear-rings, and her necklaces, and went after her lovers, and forgot Me, saith the Lord.
[14] Therefore, behold, I will cause her to err, and will make her as desolate, and will speak comfortably to her.[15] And I will giver her possessions from thence, and the valley of Achor to open her understanding: and she shall be afflicted there according to the days of her infancy, and according to the days of her coming up out of the land of Egypt.
[16] And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord, that she shall call Me, My husband, and shall no longer call me Baalim.[17] And I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and their names shall be remembered no more at all.[18] And I will make for them in that day a covenant with the wild beasts of the field, and with the birds of the sky, and with the reptiles of the earth: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle from off the earth, and will cause thee to dwell safely.[19] And I will betroth thee to myself for ever; yea, I will betroth thee to myself in righteousness, and in judgment, and in mercy, and in tender compassions;[20] and I will betroth thee to Myself in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the Lord.
[21] And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord, I will hearken to the heaven, and it shall hearken to the earth;[22] and the earth shall hearken to the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hearken to Jezrael.[23] And I will sow her to me on the earth; and will love her that was not loved, and will say to that which was not My people, Thou art My people; and they shall say, Thou art the Lord my God.LXX

Jeremiah 31:18-20 I have heard the sound of Ephraim lamenting, and saying, Thou hast chastened me and I was chastened. I as a calf was not willingly taught: turn Thou me and I shall turn, for Thou art the Lord my God.[19] For after my captivity I repented, and after I knew I groaned for the day of shame, and shewed Thee that I bore reproach from my youth.[20] Ephraim is a beloved son, a pleasing child to me, for because My words are in him I will surely remember him. Therefore I made haste to help him, I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.(LXX, Jeremias 38:18-20)

Why did you spam up the thread ?

What sort of person calls The Old Testament spam?
 
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