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Salt: One Reason Unregulated Free Enterprise Isn't Helping

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by Dale, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. Dale

    Dale Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Where I live, local conservatives were furious when some cities tried to ban large sodas. It's none of the government's business, they said.

    I don't really agree, but I'm going to change the subject from sugar to salt.

    When I was a college student, I remember going to a local mall and buying a bag of popcorn. Sitting on a bench munching popcorn, I realized that my mouth was puckered up. I could only eat half a bag of popcorn because it had way too much salt on it.

    I am very fond of nuts, especially cashews. Pouring a can of nuts into a pan, I often spoon them into a second pan. Then I hold the first pan over the trash to dump excess salt. After doing this several times, I am able to remove noticeable amounts of salt that I never wanted in the first place.

    My elderly relatives told me years ago that they like soup but they can't eat soup from the grocery store. It simply has too much salt.

    My doctor has told me that I will live longer if I lower my blood pressure. (Many people have blood pressure much higher than mine.) While exercise helps, lowering salt intake is the best dietary measure to lower blood pressure. The problem is that most of the salt that people eat doesn't come out of the salt shaker. Most salt intake comes from restaurant food and from canned food and other packaged foods.

    It is perfectly normal for canned soup contain almost 40% of a person's recommended daily intake of sodium. Worse, even that often assumes that you will eat only half a can in one day. Completely unrealistic for me. Almost 40% of your recommended sodium intake becomes almost 80% if you eat the whole can.

    I bought a 26 oz can of Cream of Mushroom soup, store brand. The label says it has 38% of the recommended daily sodium intake, but it also says that the can has eight servings. If you eat the whole can, that's 300% of the recommended daily sodium intake--in a single meal! Your day's total intake could easily be up to 400%, or four times what you need.

    Looking up low salt soup on the internet, I learned that you can buy low salt Chicken Noodle Soup. Yet there are dozens, possibly hundreds, of soups on the market. If you want low salt soup, Chicken Noodle Soup seems to be the only game in town.

    There is a sad story on Campbell's Soup and salt. Several years ago, Campbell announced that they were lowering the salt content of their soups. Two or three years later they announced that the low salt strategy wasn't selling soup. Campbell's raised the salt content again.

    Just think if all of the soup sold was low salt. If people want more salt for the taste, all they would have to do is add it and stir. It's common sense. It's easy to add salt but once it gets mixed in, there is no practical way to remove it.

    Lowering salt intake is a much better way to lower blood pressure than taking expensive drugs. These drugs may have unwanted side effects as well.

    On salt, and possibly sugar, the free market has not been a resounding success. We aren't making our own decisions, corporations are making them for us. Producers and retailers are making bad decisions en masse. We do need regulation.
     
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  2. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Because of regulation/ government oversight, good or bad,

    people have been getting sicker by the hundreds of thousands since wwI.

    Notice (if you can find it still) the tremendous increase in disease from wwI to wwII.

    Doctors, ilcensed ama doctors in the US, discovered the cause.

    They wrote what was called a "white paper" on it, around 1948.

    It used to be available online, or at least the informations was available about the three white poisons until perhaps 15 years ago. It may still be available, but it is a harder search and takes longer.
     
  3. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    Define success. From what you have written it seems to me that you believe success should be defined as forcing the world to conform to your opinion on what people should ingest. The market is an absolute success in fulfilling its function in society. The market is not there to make decisions for people but is there to supply people with that which they demand. If people demanded low salt and sugar, the market would supply low salt and sugar. It is not the market's responsibility to force people into not eating what is considered by a self proclaimed authority to be less good for them. It is not there to force people into doing anything for any reason. Dietary decisions are the responsibility of the individual person. If the vast majority of individuals demand salt and sugar in their food then the market will supply that to excess, not because the market wants people to have high blood pressure but because the market 's no.1 priority is to please its customers. The recommended serving is listed because that is what they recommend you eat. Yes if you eat eight recommended servings of something you will get eight times the salt that an individual serving will give you. If your individual diet is not low salt or low sugar that is on you the consumer not on the seller. No one is pouring salt and sugar down your throat against your will. If you don't want salt and sugar don't purchase products that contain them. The seller is not responsible for your diet. The seller is only responsible for selling the product they produced to those that wish to buy it. They cannot force you to buy it nor can they stop you from using it whatever way you please. If the product does not suit you, then don't buy it. Don't demand that no one else be allowed to buy it.
     
  4. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    What was life expectancy prior to WWI and what is life expectancy now?
    If person voluntarily takes poison, whose fault is that?
     
  5. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    The three white poisins identified by the doctors by/before 1948 were white milk, white flour and white sugar. (search the internet "3 white poisons" or even "5 white poisons" for more details).

    I am pretty sure that most families in the usa have been consuming those products "VOLUNTARILY" ? ! (sadly)...

    p.s. the search for "life expectancy" at any age or years, will not help. Sorry. Too much mis-information to sift out in that search/ and the reasons for it.....
     
  6. Dale

    Dale Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Grasping: "If people demanded low salt and sugar, the market would supply low salt and sugar."

    It could be that people don't read the food labels, or they don't understand what they mean. As I pointed out in the OP, the portion sizes on food labels aren't realistic.

    Grasping: "It is not the market's responsibility to force people into not eating what is considered by a self proclaimed authority to be less good for them."

    Is all of medical and nutritional science merely "a self proclaimed authority"? I don't think so. As I said in the OP, my doctor has told me that I will live longer if I lower my blood pressure, and the best way to do that is to consume less salt.

    Salt has a unique status because it is not a food at all, it is a mineral. It doesn't come from a plant or animal, it is mined. Even though it is a mineral, it is routinely added to food.

    Grasping: " If the vast majority of individuals demand salt and sugar in their food then the market will supply that to excess ..."

    I don't remember the public rising up and demanding more salt and more sugar in processed foods. A lot of people have put out a lot of effort to avoid both, and they've been doing that for a long time.

    Grasping: "If the product does not suit you, then don't buy it."

    So what am I supposed to eat? A hundred years ago, most Americans lived on a farm. Today very few of us live on a farm and grow our own food.
     
  7. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Here's a thought. If you don't like this stuff, don't buy it!! No one in a Capitalist society is forcing it on you.
     
  8. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    If people are concerned with what they were eating they read the labels. The labels are not about quantum physics. Anyone that is capable enough to feed himself is capable enough to read those labels and understand what they mean. The others have people to supervise them and make sure they get the right food.

    The self proclaimed authority I was referencing was not medical and nutritional science. there is a difference between an expert and an authority. One might tell you what you ought to do; the other will tell you what you have to do. If your doctor told you to do something, I would advise you to do it. Just don't insist that I must do it too nor that if you don't do it that it is somehow someone else's, or some ism's, or the market's fault. I seriously doubt that anyone other than yourself puts the food in your mouth.

    We require minerals in our diet to maintain full health. Iron , magnesium, potassium and salt are among those we would not be healthy without. I find the amount of salt in processed and restaurant food to be excessive and therefore I do not indulge in those things very often.I would advise anyone to follow my lead on that.

    People demanded those things with dollars not with words. Those people avoiding salt are acting quite responsibly. I do that myself.

    Eat fresh fruits , fresh vegetables, fresh meat and don't add salt . They sell all those things in the same places they sell those nasty processed foods they just sell them in different sections of the store.
     
  9. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    In my market in Canada, Campbell's soup in some varieties is available in regular, 40% salt reduced and salt free options.
     
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  10. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    I accidentally picked up a can of salt free mushroom soup. I can only describe it as wallpaper paste.
     
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  11. Knee V

    Knee V It's phonetic.

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    I am not convinced in the least that salt is a culprit in any capacity. Our bodies cannot cope with the low recommended salt levels, but they can easily process excess salt. However, high insulin levels resulting in chronic inflammation, high blood sugar, and diminished kidney function make filtering out salt and other minerals/compounds more difficult. Under those conditions, higher amounts of salt can raise our blood pressure. However, low salt levels as they are recommended to us raise our blood pressure as well.

    With low insulin levels and the resulting low blood sugar, low inflammation, and increased kidney function, higher salt levels are no longer a problem and don't raise our blood pressure, and our bodies handle it easily.

    Salt is a good guy. Eat it while it tastes good and stop when it tastes bad.

    Refined sugar and carbs the real bad guys. Cutting them out of our diets along with intermittent fasting (only eating within a specific window of time each day, eight hours or less) will increase our insulin sensitivity and reverse the chronic type II diabetes that has become an epidemic in our civilization.
     
  12. Dale

    Dale Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Grasping: "The labels are not about quantum physics."


    The only reason we have food labels is because people who believe in government regulation required them. They may not be "quantum physics" but they are deliberately misleading. I was in a college health class where the professor pointed out that the label on a gallon of ice cream said the portion size was two tablespoons. She posed the question: "Do you know anyone who eats two tablespoons of ice cream and stops?" Yes, these labels deliberately mislead the public.


    Grasping: "If your doctor told you to do something, I would advise you to do it."


    The food industry is putting unreasonable obstacles in the way.
     
  13. Redwingfan9

    Redwingfan9 Well-Known Member

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    You act as though people have no agency in the food decisions they make. Corporations aren't putting a gun to your head making you buy canned soup. If you want low sodium soup, there are options available or you can make your own and put as much or as little salt as you desire.

    Salt is a boogeyman that isn't anywhere near as bad as the food nazi's will have you believe. Before refrigeration, people actually ate more salt than they do today. The only way food could be preserved was with salt. People in the middle ages, for example, didn't just subsist on a diet of fresh vegetables and oats. They lived off of cured meats and fish as well.

    While the food nazi's scold people over salt intake, since processed foods become popular after the first world war, life expectancy has increased dramatically in the free world. Sure there are medical issues people face but that is to be expected as people are living longer.

    The state has no role to play in any of these matters. Free people should be free to eat and drink as they please without woke scolds using the power of the state to make allegedly better decisions for them.
     
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  14. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    It is one thing to require that information about a product be available to the public if a product is a conglomeration of ingredients. It is quite another for the government to become your nanny making sure you can only buy what is good for you according to a team of government bureaucrats.

    There is nothing at all misleading about suggesting that one serving ought to be two tablespoons if that is what is on the label. If a company neglected to provide the information that they considered two tablespoons to be a serving that would be misleading but since they come right out and tell you that they consider two tablespoons to be a serving they are not being misleading. It is not reasonable to expect a company to read your mind so it will call a serving whatever you think constitutes a serving. My mother, who weighed 92lbs would consider one tablespoon of ice cream a large portion serving. There is no universal consensus about what a serving ought to equal so just look at the label see what they consider a serving, and if you want more than what is listed do the math. Not agreeing with you on what constitutes a serving is not the same thing as being misleading.
     
  15. Redwingfan9

    Redwingfan9 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, if you look at the history of food regulations the government is almost always behind the market. The market wanted calorie counts on packaging and companies started putting it on their packaging years before the government required it. In fact, government regulations in the food industry are almost universally about big food companies working with the state to create regulations that force their smaller competitors out of the market. All in the name of health and safety of course.

    Another example of the market outpacing the state is the recent freak out over transfat. The state didn't need to ban the use of transfats, once the public freaked out nearly all the food companies and restaurant chains got rid of them.
     
  16. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Do you know what the main point to be made here is?

    It's that there ISN'T ANY "unregulated Free Enterprise" despite the title of this thread. "It" isn't either helping or not helping, again despite the title of the thread.
     
  17. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    Correct "unregulated free enterprise " is a mythical creature.
     
  18. Dale

    Dale Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Redwingfan: "Before refrigeration, people actually ate more salt than they do today. The only way food could be preserved was with salt. People in the middle ages, for example, didn't just subsist on a diet of fresh vegetables and oats. They lived off of cured meats and fish as well."

    You are mistaken about this. My father remembered meat being preserved in salt without refrigeration, and he described the process to me. Salt preserves meat because it kills the bacteria that decompose meat. The salt is washed off before the meat is cooked.

    If people did eat more salt in the past, it was probably unhealthy. It is possible that people got rid of more salt by sweating it out, especially if they worked in the sun.
     
  19. Redwingfan9

    Redwingfan9 Well-Known Member

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    If you think for a second that salt does penetrate the meat I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. It's basic science, osmosis.
     
  20. Dale

    Dale Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I used soup as the main example in the OP, but the problem of excess salt is common to many products. Canned meat such as roast beef, pork or chicken have far too much salt in them, as well as products like vienna sausage. A can of chicken and dumplings easily contains a day's supply of salt. If you eat anything else on the same day you will probably get to 150% of the salt you should consume.

    The best way that I have found is to fix rice and mix meat and/or soup with it. By making canned goods into a rice dish, it can be spread over two or three meals.
     
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