Saints; can we pray to them? Can they hear us?

Can Saints hear our prayers and actually answer them?

  • No. Don't even pray to them, it is wrong.

  • Maybe, just maybe but I don't see it stated anywhere in the bible.

  • I have done it in the past and I felt something but now I'm not so sure.

  • Yes.


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Ishraqiyun

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I've decided to take up the practices of asking the intercession of the saints. The sky hasn't fallen in yet but I will keep everyone posted. ;)

Everything is interconnected in a subtle manner. No one, be they dead or alive, is absolutely separated from us. If they can actually hear us or not is beyond my ability to answer at this point. It may not even be necessary for such a request to have some effect. All I know is that asking the intercession of saints has proven itself to be an effective practice. It must do something somehow. Even if it is simply a psychological change in ourselves.
 
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Philothei

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I have to go with "maybe" because it's not stated in the Bible and we aren't with the saints to know that they can hear.
Okie I do not see why this should be a problem... The Church has been practicing this for 2 millenia now if it was NOT politically correct due to the fact that it was not mentioned into scripture then.... Christ allowed for this be practiced for that long. Asking a friend to pray for us while he is asleep in the Lord.... should not be a problem IMHO.
 
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Dr. Mac

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My Savior instructed me to pray to My Father in heaven. Why would I direct any prayer to another creature, living or deceased, when I've been told by my Lord to pray to my Creator? Those who cite church history, traditions of men, etc. as more significant than the biblical instruction of the Lord Jesus Christ are on extremely shaky ground.
 
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Aibrean

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Okie I do not see why this should be a problem... The Church has been practicing this for 2 millenia now if it was NOT politically correct due to the fact that it was not mentioned into scripture then.... Christ allowed for this be practiced for that long. Asking a friend to pray for us while he is asleep in the Lord.... should not be a problem IMHO.

I like to make sure my prayers aren't in vain. I know for a fact God hears me. I never said anything was wrong with praying to the dead for intersession. I just don't see a point to doing it.
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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I like to make sure my prayers aren't in vain. I know for a fact God hears me. I never said anything was wrong with praying to the dead for intersession. I just don't see a point to doing it.


I agree. Remember, too, that PART of the reason to request the prayers of others is to have their support, ministry, counsel and accountability - to be "there" for us. Obviously, a dead saint can't do that.


But the issue here is not whether the practice has some discernable benefit, it is whether those in heaven have the ability to "hear" us - to discern the sound waves the 7 billion here still on Earth create via their sense of hearing. I find this very unlikely. IMO, there are VERY few in heaven that have bodies at all - and ergo ears (capable of this or not). And no one here has been able to address what change happens to the human sense of hearing at the moment of death that enables them to hear the prayers (even silent ones) of those still alive. I find the whole concept a bit silly.


I too believe it a more sound practice to seek the prayers and support of those whom I know CAN hear me, CAN pray, and CAN minister to me.





.
 
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Ishraqiyun

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i like to make sure my prayers aren't in vain. I know for a fact God hears me.
Does God hear someone when they ask for the prayers of a saint? Do you hear yourself? Sometimes saying things in a heartfelt way can bring about changes in your behavior and thought processes. Meditating on the life of a great saint and then saying "pray for me" can't hurt imo. Even if the saints themselves do not hear it it could still have positive effect.
 
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Philothei

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I agree. Remember, too, that PART of the reason to request the prayers of others is to have their support, ministry, counsel and accountability - to be "there" for us. Obviously, a dead saint can't do that.


But the issue here is not whether the practice has some discernable benefit, it is whether those in heaven have the ability to "hear" us - to discern the sound waves the 7 billion here still on Earth create via their sense of hearing. I find this very unlikely. IMO, there are VERY few in heaven that have bodies at all - and ergo ears (capable of this or not). And no one here has been able to address what change happens to the human sense of hearing at the moment of death that enables them to hear the prayers (even silent ones) of those still alive. I find the whole concept a bit silly.


I too believe it a more sound practice to seek the prayers and support of those whom I know CAN hear me, CAN pray, and CAN minister to me.





.

Saints are with God. Saints are both living and dead alike.
 
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Philothei

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I like to make sure my prayers aren't in vain. I know for a fact God hears me. I never said anything was wrong with praying to the dead for intersession. I just don't see a point to doing it.

:liturgy:And I agree that the ones who do not see the point of doing so...then there is no reason for doing it either. It is when the ones who criticize others who actually do it that I have personally a problem with.
 
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Philothei

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benefit, it is whether those in heaven have the ability to "hear" us - to discern the sound waves the 7 billion here still on Earth create via their sense of hearing. I find this very unlikely.

Why we are asking other to pray for us though ....Do we hear the living saint's prayers? I mean who knows if they are actually pray for us and interced for us? We trutst that they do. Also does God hear our intercession prayers for others? We know that the first Christians prayed on the tombs of the martyrs saints asking for strentgh and intercessions. We emulate what we have been given through the practice of the Church.
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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I mean who knows if they are actually pray for us and interced for us?


Good question....



We (persons alive on the earth) are told to pray to God. We're never told to pray to the dead (or undead) in purgatory or heaven.

We (persons alive on the earth) are told to pray for each other.

Are we told that IF the undead in purgatory or heaven know about our petitions (as as you said, "who know?") that ergo our petition is more likely to be answered? No. Can they minister to us, assure us, comfort us, help us, hold us accountable? No.

So, WHY spend this time and effort on a "who knows" and a bunch of "no's?" Why not rather do as God instructed us: Pray TO him, and seek the prayers, counsel, wisdom, admonition, accountability and help of those around us?






.
 
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Philothei

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Good question....



We (persons alive on the earth) are told to pray to God. We're never told to pray to the dead (or undead) in purgatory or heaven.

We (persons alive on the earth) are told to pray for each other.

Are we told that IF the undead in purgatory or heaven know about our petitions (as as you said, "who know?") that ergo our petition is more likely to be answered? No. Can they minister to us, assure us, comfort us, help us, hold us accountable? No.

So, WHY spend this time and effort on a "who knows" and a bunch of "no's?" Why not rather do as God instructed us: Pray TO him, and seek the prayers, counsel, wisdom, admonition, accountability and help of those around us?

I respect your opinion but do not agree with it. We are praying for each other we are saints thus the saints who live with Christ and alive in Christ hear our prayers. If the saints are 'alive' in Christ no need for further conformation on the matter.
 
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xfisherman

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Good question....



We (persons alive on the earth) are told to pray to God. We're never told to pray to the dead (or undead) in purgatory or heaven.

We (persons alive on the earth) are told to pray for each other.

Are we told that IF the undead in purgatory or heaven know about our petitions (as as you said, "who know?") that ergo our petition is more likely to be answered? No. Can they minister to us, assure us, comfort us, help us, hold us accountable? No.

So, WHY spend this time and effort on a "who knows" and a bunch of "no's?" Why not rather do as God instructed us: Pray TO him, and seek the prayers, counsel, wisdom, admonition, accountability and help of those around us?






.
Have to agree with you there CJ.
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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Josiah said:
Philothei said:
I mean who knows if they are actually pray for us and interced for us?


Good question....



We (persons alive on the earth) are told to pray to God. We're never told to pray to the dead (or undead) in purgatory or heaven.

We (persons alive on the earth) are told to pray for each other.

Are we told that IF the undead in purgatory or heaven know about our petitions (as as you said, "who know?") that ergo our petition is more likely to be answered? No. Can they minister to us, assure us, comfort us, help us, hold us accountable? No.

So, WHY spend this time and effort on a "who knows" and a bunch of "no's?" Why not rather do as God instructed us: Pray TO him, and seek the prayers, counsel, wisdom, admonition, accountability and help of those around us?





.

I respect your opinion but do not agree with it. We are praying for each other we are saints thus the saints who live with Christ and alive in Christ hear our prayers. If the saints are 'alive' in Christ no need for further conformation on the matter.


1. YOU are the one who indicated that we don't know if they hear us.


2. I know of NOTHING from Jesus, the Apostles or any other inviting the undead in heaven to pray - for us or anything else, or indicating that they do, or indicating that such as any significance above the living praying.


3. So, how - exactly - do the undead in heaven support you, minister to you, comfort or encourage you, hold you accountable? What do they do that they living around you can't do? Why use time/effort to seek THEIR prayers rather than praying to GOD as GOD clearly did invite and encourage, or seeking the petitions of living HERE as GOD clearly did invite and encourage (I realize you likely do BOTH but the time/effort you spend on the undead in heaven is all time/effort NOT spent seeking what GOD specificly invited and encouraged you to do).



In my Catholic days, I embraced this concept. I saw it as nothing more than seeking the petitions of my friends. I actually RARELY asked some biggy saint to pray for me, I more often asked my grandfather to pray for me. When I became Lutheran, and learned they discourage such, I found that odd. Since then, I've been 100% converted - for all the reasons mentioned. I do NOT regard it as evil or bad (hey, if it comforts you - I see no great harm, I suspect it is GOD that hears them and knows you mean nothing bad in misdirecting them). On the other hand, I think the whole practice is misplaced. In embracing the undead - there is a purposeful avoidance of our Christian brothers and sisters around us, contrary to God's instruction, and in so doing, an evasion of the ministry they can and do offer us which I suspect is at least as important as the prayers they lift up for us.





Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah






.
 
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We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 2 Cor. 5

See Revelation as well.

So, does being absent from the body and present with the Lord mean that such a person becomes omnipresent and omniscient in the process in order to be everywhere at the same time so that they can hear all the prayers addressed to them and able to respond to them immediately?
 
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