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Sad, very sad, but front page news, wow...

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by Andrei D, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. Andrei D

    Andrei D Active Member

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    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    Lord have mercy!

    certainly hope so!
     
  3. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Catechumen

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    There is someone who is trying to buy the Church? What kind of man would do that?
     
  4. buzuxi02

    buzuxi02 Veteran

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    I believe the offer of 2.5 million for the church is more than the amount owed on the property, so the judge approved the sale. Hopefully whatever money is leftover can put them in a new building. They should be able to take the iconostasis with them and other furnishings.
     
  5. GoingByzantine

    GoingByzantine Seeking the Narrow Road Supporter

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    I'm going to say something controversial, which may get me in trouble, but I think it needs to be said.

    The Greek community in the United States is one of the wealthiest communities in the country, if not the world. These families came to the U.S. with nothing and worked their way up from poverty, becoming some of the most successful business owners in the country. The Greek Church was there to lend them a helping hand as they acclimated to a new country and culture. It gave them faith and family. It gave them a home away from home.

    Now fast forward. There are over 20 Greek American billionaires in this country, with a total net worth of $46.88 billion dollars. Yet, they provide little to nothing to the church that gave them and their families so much. Instead of helping parishes like this one (or their church as a whole, which is in a financial crisis) they instead throw lavish parties, buy expensive luxuries, and purchase NBA and NFL teams. When the almost certainly Iconoclastic "Universal Life Church" that bought this property comes with their sledgehammers to desecrate the icon of the weeping Theotokos, these people who had the power to make a difference will be hanging out on the links with their buddies as their fellow Greek Orthodox brethren watch their home get destroyed. It honestly makes me ill.

    This issue definitely lends credence to what is written in Matthew 19:24.
     
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  6. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Catechumen

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    Yeah, some can be more cultural Orthodox than true Orthodox.
     
  7. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    ugh, that's sad to read. Lord have mercy.
     
  8. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Well-Known Member

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    Hate to sound cynical here but there have been plenty of occasions when to staff faked these "miracles"

    Weekend: The weeping Madonna of Civitavecchia

    Now which sounds like a more plausible explanation? There is a bona fide miracle ? or caretaker is trying not to lose his job by faking a statue miracle.

    Well at least it was not blood that can be examined more closely so guess some points for that.

    It is always hilarious to see the priest not willing to give up DNA sample to compare against these "holy blood tears" or whatever for "personal" reasons.
     
  9. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    sure, but there are plenty of legit ones as well.
     
  10. buzuxi02

    buzuxi02 Veteran

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    We dont use statues nor do our icons shed blood. Nor will a bishop declare anything of divine providence unless examined by him and other experts with no other explanation found suitable.
     
  11. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    technically that's not true. there are icons that bled when cut by nonbelievers.
     
  12. buzuxi02

    buzuxi02 Veteran

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    True, such as the Portaitissa.
     
  13. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    granted, you are right that they just don't bleed on their own, as in Mary's eyes just bleeding all of a sudden (at least, not that I have read).
     
  14. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    Actually, there have been extremely few instances of fakes in the Orthodox Christian Church, and a few phonies does not make all miracles a farce. Orthodox caretakers are unpaid volunteer ministers, by the way, so what do we have to gain by faking anything, besides eternal torment? The faithful (including myself)are able to see the myrrh forming and streaming with their own eyes, and can also plainly see a lack of any "props" or any other such nonsense being used to cause the holy oil to form and flow.

    So to respond to any and all skeptics, in my usual way, the answer is NO! The Holy Spirit Who reveals faith in Jesus Christ to be the True Faith, is not a fake.
     
  15. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Well-Known Member

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    The gain in this instance would be saving the church if monetary issues are not relevant. Worthy goal.

    It hardly matters if the object in question is statue or painting. Also for those who believe it does not need a bishop to declare anything official while people flock to the site for a mere rumour as was mentioned in the article.


    That is nice. Any particular reason nobody takes this to laboratory settings with scientific recording and analyzing equipment thus making it only religion in the world with certified miracle happening and getting all those new converts for God ?
     
  16. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Catechumen

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    What do you want to analyse it for? To see if it is a real substance? If it is then what?

    It is good to be skeptic about any events but I'm sure you would not believe it anyways.
     
  17. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Well-Known Member

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    In this instance of the weeping painting. I would rate it higher on holy scale if it was demonstrated to contain something out of ordinary. Say something they could not identify, let us not be picky.

    If on the other hand I see a caretaker next to a waterdispenser with wet hands and the chemical analysis of the weeping painting matches 100% the water on the dispenser I would tend to be sceptical about this particular "miracle".
     
  18. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    I can say I have heard of more than a few cases of the myrrh from a weeping icon to be tested, and the tests came back unable to identify the chemical make up of the myrrh.

    there was one lady at my first parish who said the Soviets always tried so they could prove Christianity false, but those miracles were things they couldn't explain away.
     
  19. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Well-Known Member

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    Let me guess...there are no actual links to any kind of public test results from these laboratories ?

    You would think that Church would be eager to test these miracles to prove they are the one true faith ...but for some reason they seem to be disinclined to do so ?
     
  20. AMM

    AMM A Beggar Supporter

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    Miracles don’t prove which faith is the true one. After all, Christ said something about “not even if a man rises from the dead would you believe”.

    Science is fine but let’s not fall into Scientism.
     
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