Sad at priests ordination party, and Mandator Celibacy

[Markie Boy]

So I'm still in the Western Catholic Church. I went to a younger priests ordination party, and I was sad.

I listed to the story of how his mother told him jokingly somewhat - I'm not sure how much, to not be a priest as she wanted grandchildren. The family had lost their only other child, so he was it.

He ended up becoming a priest. But I just thought, it's a choice that shouldn't be mandatory - but they must choose one or the other. He may have made a great dad, and raised a wonderful Catholic family.

It just makes me sad that they have to choose, and it's become a big hang up for me with our massive lack of priests. I'm sort of tired of the explanation of "it's discipline, not dogma" - it seems like an excuse to do things out of line with Scripture and history.

Am I just wrong, or am I just too called to the East? Just trying to reflect, and looking for some help.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

So I'm still in the Western Catholic Church. I went to a younger priests ordination party, and I was sad.

I listed to the story of how his mother told him jokingly somewhat - I'm not sure how much, to not be a priest as she wanted grandchildren. The family had lost their only other child, so he was it.

He ended up becoming a priest. But I just thought, it's a choice that shouldn't be mandatory - but they must choose one or the other. He may have made a great dad, and raised a wonderful Catholic family.

It just makes me sad that they have to choose, and it's become a big hang up for me with our massive lack of priests. I'm sort of tired of the explanation of "it's discipline, not dogma" - it seems like an excuse to do things out of line with Scripture and history.

Am I just wrong, or am I just too called to the East? Just trying to reflect, and looking for some help.

It is what it is. Change must come from within the RCC. Maybe not enough people care to make the change. It has never been that way in the church from the beginning but changed later by the RCC. I would think though, that if they would want to marry, they could just go eastern rite??

 

[Monk Brendan]

So I'm still in the Western Catholic Church. I went to a younger priests ordination party, and I was sad.

I listed to the story of how his mother told him jokingly somewhat - I'm not sure how much, to not be a priest as she wanted grandchildren. The family had lost their only other child, so he was it.

He ended up becoming a priest. But I just thought, it's a choice that shouldn't be mandatory - but they must choose one or the other. He may have made a great dad, and raised a wonderful Catholic family.

It just makes me sad that they have to choose, and it's become a big hang up for me with our massive lack of priests. I'm sort of tired of the explanation of "it's discipline, not dogma" - it seems like an excuse to do things out of line with Scripture and history.

Am I just wrong, or am I just too called to the East? Just trying to reflect, and looking for some help.

If God calls you when you're single, plan on staying single.

If He calls you when you're married, plan on staying married.

My own opinion is that the Church needs both married AND celibate priests. They have different and complementary gifts and experiences to bring to the Church.

However, in the case of the ordinand, he made his choice as a grown man.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I can't judge why you feel that way. I only know that I'd probably feel the same in your position.

 

[~Anastasia~]

My own opinion is that the Church needs both married AND celibate priests. They have different and complementary gifts and experiences to bring to the Church.

Now this I definitely agree with!

We have both married and celibate priests, and each come with different gifts and different dynamics, and both are a blessing to the Church!

 

[Markie Boy]

Now this I definitely agree with!

We have both married and celibate priests, and each come with different gifts and different dynamics, and both are a blessing to the Church!

Yes - I agree totally. I think because of this we in the RCC are missing a whole set of these gifts, and definitely missing this dynamic.

I come to the point it just makes me sad. The trads will scold me for this, but it's what I believe to be true, and I think the state of our Church reflects this.

 

[dzheremi]

My parish had one married priest and one widowed priest. There are of course also celibate priests, but I believe they're a minority in my own tradition. I would have a hard time discussing some aspects of life with a celibate priest, I think, which might impact our approach to confession and reconciliation in a negative manner. (Just guessing, since I've never encountered a celibate priest in my own tradition outside of a monastic setting, and I didn't confess at the monastery because you're not supposed to confess to whoever happens to be around unless it's an extreme emergency; a priest you don't know obviously isn't going to know you like your regular father of confession does.)

But it does seem sad for the RCC to have lost this aspect of pastoral care by enforcing clerical celibacy from an early date, as well as the obvious danger of sexual misconduct among the clergy, which seems to be higher in the RCC than in even its sister Eastern Catholic churches (I'm sure there's some there, because everyone everywhere is fallen, but you don't hear about it like you do in the RCC, where clerical celibacy is the norm, and I refuse to believe that this is a coincidence). But I agree with the others that this is the RCC's own problem to solve. They have created it; they will have to modify it/'un-create' it. I'm actually a bit surprised that it hasn't at least been hinted at that this will happen, since I know in the past it has been pointed out that it is a discipline, rather than a doctrine (though that was in the context of controversy regarding 'women priests', near the tail-end of my time in the RCC about a decade ago when Pope Benedict had to remind everyone that it's not within his power to agree to such a novelty).

 

[ArmyMatt]

I don't think you are too called to the East at all. it makes a lot of sense to have married clergy.

 

[prodromos]

I would have a hard time discussing some aspects of life with a celibate priest

You would be surprised. It doesn't matter so much whether a priest is married or not, but whether he is close to God. One who is enlightened by the Holy Spirit will be able to discern much about the issues faced by the non celibate, whether they are married or not.

But it does seem sad for the RCC to have lost this aspect of pastoral care by enforcing clerical celibacy from an early date, as well as the obvious danger of sexual misconduct among the clergy, which seems to be higher in the RCC than in even its sister Eastern Catholic churches (I'm sure there's some there, because everyone everywhere is fallen, but you don't hear about it like you do in the RCC, where clerical celibacy is the norm, and I refuse to believe that this is a coincidence).

Since Eastern Catholics make up less than half of one percent of the Catholic Church, you will definitely hear of more incidents in the RCC.

 

[Newtheran]

it seems like an excuse to do things out of line with Scripture and history.

...since 1054.

 

[CowboyAndy]

So sad. It never made sense to me that RC priests cannot raise families of their own. A ROCOR priest I met had such a nice family. Society and churches need more stable families.

I have been told that this is a major reason why homosexuals in Medieval and Renaissance times were more attracted to becoming priests. I haven't seen any historical evidence for this. Child abuse in the RCC is likely overblown since the media is obsessed with demonizing Christianity.

 

[CowboyAndy]

I don't think you are too called to the East at all. it makes a lot of sense to have married clergy.

Anglicans are Western after all! It's funny how we have more in common with Anglicans despite being more historically distant from them than Roman Catholics.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Anglicans are Western after all! It's funny how we have more in common with Anglicans despite being more historically distant from them than Roman Catholics.

yep, in a lot of ways we are closer to Anglicans and conservative Lutherans.

 

[CowboyAndy]

yep, in a lot of ways we are closer to Anglicans and conservative Lutherans.

Makes me wonder if the Reformation was really that bad. I don't think the weird cult churches across America have any relation to Luther or Henry VIII.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Makes me wonder if the Reformation was really that bad. I don't think the weird cult churches across America have any relation to Luther or Henry VIII.

it was that bad. it laid the foundation for the mess today.

 

[Not David]

Makes me wonder if the Reformation was really that bad. I don't think the weird cult churches across America have any relation to Luther or Henry VIII.

A lot of Reformation churches in Europe accept female clergy and gay marriage.

 

[~Anastasia~]

yep, in a lot of ways we are closer to Anglicans and conservative Lutherans.

Personally it seems to me that they were right to oppose many of the issues of Catholicism. In those ways we are closer to some Protestants.

I still wonder sometimes how it would be if Luther (and maybe others) had returned to Orthodoxy.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I still wonder sometimes how it would be if Luther (and maybe others) had returned to Orthodoxy.

good question.

 

[CowboyAndy]

it was that bad. it laid the foundation for the mess today.

Are all the reformers responsible for the existence of the numerous cults in Protestantism?

 

[CowboyAndy]

Personally it seems to me that they were right to oppose many of the issues of Catholicism. In those ways we are closer to some Protestants.

I still wonder sometimes how it would be if Luther (and maybe others) had returned to Orthodoxy.

I read a few letters some reformers exchanged with Greek Orthodox. It sounded like they wanted to decide for themselves what scripture said, even making the lame excuse of 'letting scripture interpret scripture'. Nonsense.