Start a new thread (KISS please) on grace Easy. .
As others made the suggestion, they have the freedom to do so if they wish. This thread's focus is on tattoos and the Law.
You're derailing this one.
If one wishes to talk about "derailing", then there needs to be demonstration shown in dealing with what the Torah says on a certain topic---but thus far, it seems as if there's too much of a desire to avoid what the Torah says on the ORIGINAL Post topic whenever you've been confronted plainly ont he matter. As said before, on the MAIN SCRIPTURES involved in the original post that you continue to try avoiding as if they're not there:
- Revelations 19:15 with Christ having language written on Him...
- Revelations 3 where the Lord said He'd mark His people/write His name on them
- Isaiah 44:5 with HaShem saying He'd tattoo/mark His own people
- Ezekiel 9:4-7 with Him commanding the prophet to mark those who grieved over abominations
- Song of Songs/Song of Solomon 8:5-7 where the lover makes clear their companion has been placed as seal upon their heart and a seal upon their arm.
You can try to attempt claiming that another is "derailing"---but in many ways, its simply reading into another what you yourself have ALREADY been doing....as you've continually/brazenly avoided the main OP topic as well as the scriptures given on it. ..and thus, the room you have for discussing derailing isn't much. Until you can be faithful in dealing with the scriptures discussed in the OP, whatever you say in commentary is a derailment..and that has happened enough already
Sincerly, I'd prefer to deal with the scriptures noted in OP rather than having to address every sideline comment made by others that goes away from it---be it with avoiding scripture for other conversation off topic... or trying to make fun of/mock anything one doesn't wish to agree with at any costs (as it seems you're trying to do continually,
Proverbs 9:7-9/
Proverbs 11:12/
Proverbs 15:12 /
Proverbs 22:10).
However the subject of grace has been debated ad-nauseum here and over in GT
Interesting to see the response.
For you claim the subject of grace has been debated "ad-nauseum" here....and yet you were one of the individuals who initinally brought up the subject in discussion/continued it. Specifically, you brought it up here in what seemed to be a not-too-subtle attempt at claiming others for the concept of grace were advocating a liscense to sin/go against the Law on any point---as seen in post #
83. And later, I clarified DIRECTLY to you how the subject of grace is neither liscense to do any kind of immorality nor is it a Non-Messianic concept, as seen in #
84....and prior to that, it was xpounded upon further in regards to how it has never been "Christian" to avoid God's standards and numerous Christians/Christian organizations or churches have gone counter to your assesment, as seen previously in #
80
After all of that, you then decided to ask for a definition from myself (as seen here in #
85 ) after you were called out on it in trying to make it out as if discussion of grace is a "Christian" dynamic to avoid the Torah. And yet, the only response despite all of that is that there's an seeming attempt to try to claiming "Well, its been talked about often." ??
Sorry, but IMHO it doesn't seem you're really being consistent with the train of thought or logic you've been advocating..
though the attempt by yourself at trying to spin the situation/switch at the last minitue is noteworthy
Moreover, despite how many Messianic organizations have supported the concept of GRACE and go counter to your views---indicating that what you advocate isn't really "Messianic" at all----it's interesting that you seem to be willing to avoid it simply for the sake of argument. Ani, at this point, its not even an issue of one "Messianic view" against another....as the fact of the matter is that much of what you have been advocating in opposition to the concept of grace is not what Messianic Scholars/teachers have advocated for ages....and there are plenty of solid ones to investigate for confirmation. As said earlier,
Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum of "Ariel Ministries" is an excellent source of information as it concerns discussing the issue of the Law and Grace....as seen in his article entitled THE GRACE OF GOD
If you want us here in MJ to become grace based - it ain't gonna happen
Not concerned with whether any of you here become "grace based"---as the reality is that it wouldn't matter since trying to resist it would not change the fact that its a concept supported by Messianic Judaism on a host of levels...and fighting against that is simply another indicator that its not really understood what it means to be Messianic.
It would be amazing to see a proper understanding of grace develop on your part...but if it does not, so be it. Life will keep going on. Moreover, there are far too many in the history of this forum that've already been "grace based" and noted how the TORAH was supported in the New Covenant through that basis....just as Jesus said....and to become focused on a few VEHEMENTLY against anything concerning grace based in the Law is not something that'll really make a difference in the long scheme of things.