Whatever helps you connect with God...wear that.
That's the ideal, but practical considerations can impose themselves.Clothing dose not matter. Where you meet dose not matter. From a house to a hill. From casual to your best clothes. Where two or more meet together....
Originally Posted by sunlover1
Hmm, I can't see why financial status would matter.Albion responds: Me either. But that is the statement to which I replied, i.e. that vestments and ceremony intimidate the poor. I don't see any reason to think that being poor would cause that reaction, but that it wouldn't affect anyone else. And, of course, no evidence was offered to show that it does.
I've noticed that the more formal the service does not equate with what the laity wears. often quite the opposite.
Business suits seem more prevalent in evangelic worship. Oddly enough so does the most casual of dress.
I can't remember ever seeing something as loud as a Hawaiian Shirt until lately in most churches of either form of worship. I think the "look at me' thing is something new for the laity. But then what I call new another may call old.
I tend to wear loud (my daughter says flamboyant) clothing when going about my normal day. In church I take care not to draw attention to myself dressing more reserved. But that's just me.
Now when I pass one particular local African American church I always love to see the hats. They find some really cool hats. Yes, I'd wear one outside of Church. And my daughter would be sooooo embarrassed.
I can't remember ever seeing something as loud as a Hawaiian Shirt until lately in most churches of either form of worship. I think the "look at me' thing is something new for the laity. But then what I call new another may call old.
Hats are a very big deal in many African-American churches....as well as dress in general. Some of my favorite memories come from that background (as I grew up within it) - and I do think there is a place for wanting to honor the Lord with the way we dress. And yet I also think there's a level where what we deem honorable for us can cross the line when we look down on others not dressing the way that we do.Now when I pass one particular local African American church I always love to see the hats. They find some really cool hats. Yes, I'd wear one outside of Church. And my daughter would be sooooo embarrassed.
The dress styles as well as other traditions of Black Church culture are fascinating..Plantation Church: How African American Religion Was Born in Caribbean SlaveryNow when I pass one particular local African American church I always love to see the hats. They find some really cool hats. Yes, I'd wear one outside of Church. And my daughter would be sooooo embarrassed.
G
Acts 16:16-34
Paul and Silas in Prison
After they had been severely flogged, they were thrown into prison, and the jailer was commanded to guard them carefully. 24 When he received these orders, he put them in the inner cell and fastened their feet in the stocks.
25 About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were listening to them. 26 Suddenly there was such a violent earthquake that the foundations of the prison were shaken. At once all the prison doors flew open, and everyones chains came loose.
Gxg (G²);64653769 said:It's hard to help many realize how African Protestantism was mediated through Protestant missionaries in the context of Colonialism (with African Protestantism being its own branch in multiple levels) - meaning that of course the main/dominant leaders that get brought up as the "Founders" tend to be those who are European - and to realize that many of the groups they want to slap all together get offended due to how the Reformation and by deduction Protestantism was primarily a national, at best European movement in its stages - and one that often seemed not concerned with reflecting the culture of others it wanted to gain to its side like cards in a game....[/LEFT]
The same, of course, goes for Catholics seeing how it seems not many want to talk on the extensive ways they did the SAME things as the Protestants they try to group together when it comes to minorities having a DIFFERENT view of history in how they weren't considered. This comes to mind specifically with dynamics such as Liberation Theology - and how often I've seen it where Black Catholics have long noted that they always had a radically different understanding of Catholic Theology than other Catholics when it came to seeing solidarity with other Blacks who were Protestants...while other Catholics that were NOT Black seemed to be the main ones arguing on why Protestants and Catholics were not to work together whatsoever - and the same thing goes for Hispanics as well when it comes to Hispanic/Latino Hispanic Catholics seeing solidarity with those who are non-Catholic in the struggles they went through .....Liberation Theology uniting both groups together.
This is something I've also seen in Orthodoxy as well - as Black Orthodox have seemed far more able and willing to work with Non-Orthodox when it comes to seeing common struggles between groups. I'm reminded of Archbishop Iakovos, who offered 37 years of service which were distinguished by his leadership in furthering religious unity, revitalizing Christian worship and championing human and civil rights and choosing to work with Dr. Martin Luther King. ................
Gxg (G²);64653831 said:For anyone interested..
Some of this is based in what was discussed earlier in another thread dealing with historical groups in the Radical Reformation and the Reformation - seeing which modern groups would qualify for today (as discussed here and here and here).
Some good books I've read on the issue that you'd probably would find it good to invest in are African Reformation: African Initiated Christianity (By Allan Anderson - who considers the developments of African Initiated Christianity to be JUST as monumental as the Protestant Reformation) - as well as Music in the Life of the African Church ( By Roberta Rose King)......Towards Liturgies that Reconcile: Race and Ritual Among African-American and European-American Protestants by William Scott Haldeman... or Reshaping Protestantism in a Global Context - Page 52
Gxg (G²);64657818 said:For a good review on the issue, one may wish to consider going online and looking up an article under the name of "The Dunamis Word - What Does 21st Century Holiness Look Like?" . The article is made by a man named Pastor Harvey Burnett. He's a wonderful man of God whom I've always loved talking with. For he's one whom I used to blog with years ago on another site....and he's also very knowledgable of many of the backgrounds concerning the Black Church as well as Church History in general.
To see the ways the Methodist movement impacted the Black Church has always been fascinating to me ......and with the classification of it, I do wonder why it seems to be often neglected.
I shared this with another recently as it concerns the history behind the Black Church - as history of the Black Church (more shared on it in #229 - as well as the history of blacks in the OT/NT in #14 /#16 ) - is a multifaceted reality and not something that's in any way monolithic....especially when considering the dynamic of intercultural connections and splicing of cultures:
To me, I always find it amazing when going back and considering the extensive amount of ways that the slaves, in their example, were so in line with the Spirit of how things were done in the Early Church /Ancient Faith.....and what the prophets of the OT/NT preached on when it came to suffering for the Lord/righteousness and looking unto Him for deliverance. The book An Unbroken Circle: Linking Ancient African Christianity to the African-American Experience (more here) is one of the best historical reads present (if not the best) which helps to break that down - by Fr Moses Berry ( curator of the Ozarks Afro-American Heritage Museum and rector of Theotokos Unexpected Joy Orthodox Church in Ask Grove, Missouri).
- God In America: The Black Church | PBS
- Summary of The History of the Negro Church
- African American Church History - Christian Timelines
- Black Churches, Black Theology and American History - PBS
- Africans in America| Part 3 | Narrative: The Black Church - PBS
- Black Christianity Before the Civil War: Christian History Timeline ...
Upon its publication in 1997, An Unbroken Circle: Linking Ancient African Christianity to the African-American Experience, broke new ground in Orthodox writing. And many people have found this book to be an invaluable resource, both for personal growth and for Orthodox outreach as well as general understanding of the ways the Body of Christ came together....
But outside of seeing the ways that Blacks were connected to Eastern Christianity, within American culture it often seemed that Black churches had a very distinct categorization from other groups when it came to the ways they lived out their own faith.
Why I Sing Amazing Grace: The African-American Worship ExperIENCE
The History of The Black Church - The Beginning
Tradition doesn't have to be something that happens always - but as it concerns the man, yes....this has happened repeatedly.I have little doubt this isn't their tradition. But even in that, he's a bit over the top.
Sometimes, it's hard not to say anything judgmental on the issue when it comes to seeing the ways others may get excited in ways we're not comfortable with in church.Now that kind of thing is something I don't need to have in a church I attend - simply because I can't refrain from making certain judgments. Lord forgive me. I find it better to simply keep a distance.
I thought it was going to be the typical "Pentecostal dance". It wasn't.
Gxg (G²);65170768 said:Sometimes, it's hard not to say anything judgmental on the issue when it comes to seeing the ways others may get excited in ways we're not comfortable with in church.
But on the dance, I've seen other Pentecostal dances similar to it.....
Yes, the hats worn by the older women are precious!I've noticed that the more formal the service does not equate with what the laity wears. often quite the opposite.
Business suits seem more prevalent in evangelic worship. Oddly enough so does the most casual of dress.
I can't remember ever seeing something as loud as a Hawaiian Shirt until lately in most churches of either form of worship. I think the "look at me' thing is something new for the laity. But then what I call new another may call old.
I tend to wear loud (my daughter says flamboyant) clothing when going about my normal day. In church I take care not to draw attention to myself dressing more reserved. But that's just me.
Now when I pass one particular local African American church I always love to see the hats. They find some really cool hats. Yes, I'd wear one outside of Church. And my daughter would be sooooo embarrassed.
Yes, I confess, what we are used to and where we come from affects how we think. And it is hard not to judge and put wrong motives on a person - Lord forgive me.
I used to always love the ladies' hats. I never knew anything about "hat wars" or any competitiveness. I used to be (and to a degree probably still am) somewhat oblivious to competitiveness based on style of dress and similar factors. Blissfully unaware, LOL.
It takes a lot to get through my wall, which now makes me realize it really must have been pretty blatant the last time I felt looked down on for being "out of place" - I was just a farm wife with a husband who works as a laborer, and I attended a huge metropolitan "First Baptist Church" and rode the elevator with the senator's father and others of his degree.
Ah well.
But forgive me ... I've been part of a dance team, been in churches where half the congregation gathers at the front during singing and all dance, seen altar dancers, and all kinds of things in between. And yet, it's difficult even with all of that in my background to watch the guys here and not think they might be doing it to draw attention to themselves.
I actually love dancing during worship, but I don't do it in church. Well ... there were a couple of churches I attended that had private little alcoves I managed to find, where I could pray and dance in privacy while the congregation worshiped. That was pretty cool. But I don't do it in front of anyone (except choreographed performances when I was in dance ministry) because I don't want to draw any attention to myself. I fear that if I did do it, my mind would probably wander to what someone who saw me might think, and I don't want my focus to be there. So only God sees me. That is better for my own spiritual state.
Ohh lol.The best of intentions...
Whatever helps you connect with God...wear that.
YES! Thanks for the research Gxg (G²)Thanks for the book recommendations G2. I really don't know enough (or much at all) about the African-American religious experience, and I'd love to learn more.
I think we just need to find what works for us. I find God in a lot of ways but I appreciate liturgies and things that connect me to God by connecting me with my ancestors in the church. But even the most ancient of liturgies were once new. It's also great to read modern liturgies written by present-day folks, break out a few contemporary hymns, etc.
I find myself a little uncomfortable when ultra-contemporary churches have kind of forgotten the church part. Baptism is less important, communion isn't served or is served without reverence, etc. But those churches are few. In reality, even the most 'hip' of churches still have reverence, just in their own way.