Sabbath observance under extreme conditions....

DennisTate

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I just want to say that I am truly sorry for all those years that I was close to believing in near total pacifism! Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua once asked a question of the Scribes and Pharisees that should have made it obvious to me that an extreme situation can call for drastic action by a Christian or Jew who feels called into a life in the military or police!


Mark 3:4 "And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace."

I am almost certain that Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua was referring to the situation faced by the Machabees when Greco - Syrian armies were attacking Jewish communities on the Sabbath.

One community had refused to fight back....but the Machabees....in my opinion correctly judged that this is a violation of an admonition by King Solomon:


Ecclesiastes 7:16 "Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?"


Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, 1 Machabees Chapter 2
...
"So they gave them battle on the sabbath: and they were slain with their wives, and their children, and their cattle, to the number of a thousand persons. [39] And Mathathias and his friends heard of it, and they mourned for them exceedingly. [40] And every man said to his neighbour: If we shall all do as our brethren have done, and not fight against the heathens for our lives, and our justifications: they will now quickly root us out of the earth.

[41] And they determined in that day, saying: Whosoever shall come up against us to fight on the sabbath day, we will fight against him: and we will not all die, as our brethren that were slain in the secret places."
 

Tolworth John

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Jesus also said,'That the sabeth was made for mans benefit.'
and, 'that we are to worship in Spirit and in Truth.'

The keeping of the Sabeth has always been an indicator of spiritual health, and it still has that function.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Mark 3:4 "And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace."

I am almost certain that Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua was referring to the situation faced by the Machabees when Greco - Syrian armies were attacking Jewish communities on the Sabbath.

The context of that passage was referring to healing on the Sabbath.

Desmond Doss showed that it is possible to observe the Sabbath and not bear arms in war... the thing was, to remain faithful to his beliefs, he had to endure a lot of persecution but in the end God was glorified and blessed Desmond with bravery that saved many lives and showed the power of the Almighty. This selfless, humble man received the Congressional Medal of Honour and the respect of everyone that served with him.

Caring for the sick and infirm on Sabbath is acceptable service but policing and military work, unless in extreme circumstances (donkey in the ditch), is not honourable to God, imo from reading scripture.
 
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Sheep dog

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Jesus also said,'That the sabeth was made for mans benefit.'
and, 'that we are to worship in Spirit and in Truth.'

The keeping of the Sabeth has always been an indicator of spiritual health, and it still has that function.
The sabbath has always been an indicator of spiritual health for who?
 
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DennisTate

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The context of that passage was referring to healing on the Sabbath.

Desmond Doss showed that it is possible to observe the Sabbath and not bear arms in war... the thing was, to remain faithful to his beliefs, he had to endure a lot of persecution but in the end God was glorified and blessed Desmond with bravery that saved many lives and showed the power of the Almighty. This selfless, humble man received the Congressional Medal of Honour and the respect of everyone that served with him.

Caring for the sick and infirm on Sabbath is acceptable service but policing and military work, unless in extreme circumstances (donkey in the ditch), is not honourable to God, imo from reading scripture.


This is the first that I had heard his name......
thank you......


Desmond Doss - Wikipedia

Desmond Thomas Doss (February 7, 1919 – March 23, 2006) was a United States Army corporal who served as a combat medic with an infantry company in World War II. He was twice awarded the Bronze Star Medal for actions in Guam and the Philippines. Doss further distinguished himself for service above and beyond the call of duty in the Battle of Okinawa by saving 75 men at considerable personal risk, becoming the only conscientious objector to receive the Medal of Honorduring World War II.[a] His life has been the subject of books, the documentary The Conscientious Objector, and the critically acclaimed 2016 film Hacksaw Ridge.

Early life
Desmond Doss was born in Lynchburg, Virginia, to William Thomas Doss (1893–1989),[1] a carpenter, and Bertha Edward Doss (née Oliver) (1899–1983),[2] a homemaker and shoe factory worker.[3][4][5] His mother raised him as a devout Seventh-day Adventist and instilled Sabbath-keeping, nonviolence, and a vegetarian lifestyle in his upbringing.[6] He grew up in the Fairview Heights area of Lynchburg, Virginia, alongside his older sister Audrey and younger brother Harold.[5]

Doss attended the Park Avenue Seventh-day Adventist Church school until the eighth grade, and subsequently found a job at the Lynchburg Lumber Company to support his family during the Great Depression.[5]
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Tolworth John

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The sabbath has always been an indicator of spiritual health for who?
In the OT of the Jews today of us and by that I don't mean a rigid no work, no electricity etc but our attitude towards joining in worship every Sunday at the church we are members of.
 
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Sheep dog

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In the OT of the Jews today of us and by that I don't mean a rigid no work, no electricity etc but our attitude towards joining in worship every Sunday at the church we are members of.
Church attendance a sign of spiritual significance or health. What a hoot!
 
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DennisTate

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Check out the movie that came out last year, Hacksaw Ridge. It is the true account of Desmond and his story.... directed by Mel Gibson.

Wow! I will definitely look for it..... .and I think I may have noticed already that it is on Netflix!
 
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DennisTate

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Church attendance a sign of spiritual significance or health. What a hoot!

Although I make a sincere effort to keep Friday sunset to Saturday sunset differently than the six working days.... I feel that I am at a higher level of Shalom in that I really do feel peace to attend Sunday services with my wife..... anywhere she wishes to..... which at this time is a Pentecostal church where I do see amazing love, peace, and wisdom being applied.
 
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Sheep dog

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Although I make a sincere effort to keep Friday sunset to Saturday sunset differently than the six working days.... I feel that I am at a higher level of Shalom in that I really do feel peace to attend Sunday services with my wife..... anywhere she wishes to..... which at this time is a Pentecostal church where I do see amazing love, peace, and wisdom being applied.
Cool. What does that have to do with spiritual health?
 
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DennisTate

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Cool. What does that have to do with spiritual health?

If we are a Christian who is closer to what might be termed "Cyrus level thinking"......
expounded in Isaiah chapters 42 - 46 then we will tend to be less offended by
what might be errors.......... that can profoundly offend us while we are immature.

Most of us in this forum know that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus kept the Jewish Sabbath from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset but.........
going to a worship service or Bible study on Sunday..... is NOT the same thing as
hanging around the home of a harlot........
as some of my old friends from the Worldwide Church of God used to believe.
 
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Tolworth John

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Church attendance a sign of spiritual significance or health. What a hoot!

And someone who never attends church or who wonders from church to church is going to be a more mature Christian.
If someone came to you for advice on how to grow as a Christian, would you really say don't bother attending church, or encourage them to find a church where the bible is preached through both OT and NT.
 
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BobRyan

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Nehemiah 13:17
It came about that just as it grew dark at the gates of Jerusalem before the sabbath, I commanded that the doors should be shut and that they should not open them until after THE Sabbath. Then I stationed some of my servants at the gates so that no load would enter on the Sabbath day.
 
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DennisTate

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And someone who never attends church or who wonders from church to church is going to be a more mature Christian.
If someone came to you for advice on how to grow as a Christian, would you really say don't bother attending church, or encourage them to find a church where the bible is preached through both OT and NT.
From my own experience......
any Christian who just can't get along with any church.......
to at least some degree probably has a lot of spiritual pride themselves.
 
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We are wrestling with spirits in high places, and they can be found everywhere. I pray before any enter any congregation gathering to the eyes to see His wisdom, His love, His hand in the people.. That I may be blessed and a blessing. Nothing is perfect and if you want to find faults, there is a lot to go around. But if you want to be in Yeshua's ministry it is always found in the moments and in contact with our fellow man and beasts.
 
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DennisTate

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We are wrestling with spirits in high places, and they can be found everywhere. I pray before any enter any congregation gathering to the eyes to see His wisdom, His love, His hand in the people.. That I may be blessed and a blessing. Nothing is perfect and if you want to find faults, there is a lot to go around. But if you want to be in Yeshua's ministry it is always found in the moments and in contact with our fellow man and beasts.

And I have noticed that a lot of the squabbling is legitimate but......
maybe Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is more interested in our being able to disagree.......
and still respect each other......
more so than that we come absolute total unity on each idea........
because so many of the questions we face are quite confusing.


Mat 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."
 
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guevaraj

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Although I make a sincere effort to keep Friday sunset to Saturday sunset differently than the six working days.... I feel that I am at a higher level of Shalom in that I really do feel peace to attend Sunday services with my wife..... anywhere she wishes to..... which at this time is a Pentecostal church where I do see amazing love, peace, and wisdom being applied.
Brother, no one keeps the Sabbath revealed in the word of God in the whole world. According to Genesis, the first Sabbath made holy by God was from morning to morning and Israel "remembers" to keep holy that first Sabbath by beginning 12 hours before its seventh local day of the week, mind you, by direct instructions from God in Leviticus. That means that the Sabbath was made holy in the time zone of Eden and doing the same thing done in Israel here in the united states is a tradition in contradiction with the word of God. Here in the united states the Sabbath starts 17 hours before our seventh local day of the week, with Israel as our example beginning 12 hours before its seventh local day of the week. The Sabbath is united worldwide, when it starts in Israel it starts everywhere else simultaneously at different hours depending on your location. United in our hope of the soon return of Jesus, Jorge
 
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"Rest" is a key word in the keeping of the Sabbath
"Holy" is a key word in the keeping of the Sabbath
"Assembly" is another key word of the Sabbath
"seventh day" is another key word of the Sabbath

If you get a holy rest during the seventh day, you are truly blessed. Where two or three gather He will be there and in that will be the greatest blessing. If we are focusing of the details and miss out on the blessing, we have lost the purpose. Being late or early, being perfect or not so perfect, being right or not so right, are not the purpose of the Sabbath keeping. Let's not lose out on the blessing the Sabbath brings.
 
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