Sabbath day...

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I will try again...IN PAUL'S WORDS

1 Cor 9:19-23
Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

I understand that, but that does NOT explain why he took a nazarite vow when James told him to. He already argued with James. yet he still did it. That actually went against your claim.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

It's easier to attend a synagogue service than to avoid everything that is considered work according to halakhah for an entire Sabbath. Do you have Biblical proof that they kept all of that?


Which doesn't help your case for the necessity of keeping Sabbath today at all.

How were they working if they were attending a Shabbat service? No, it actually makes my case...

 

[blackribbon]

I understand that, but that does NOT explain why he took a nazarite vow when James told him to. He already argued with James. yet he still did it. That actually went against your claim.

Since we can't ask him, we will have to wonder. But it doesn't negate 1 Cor. Paul also admitted to struggling with sin, no different than the rest of us. 1 Corinthians answers your question of why he continued to do the Jewish traditions even when he was not tied to them as the Law...and in his own words.

 

[Sketcher]

How were they working if they were attending a Shabbat service? No, it actually makes my case...

There's before the service and after the service on Sabbath. Not sure why that question needed to be asked.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Since we can't ask him, we will have to wonder. But it doesn't negate 1 Cor. Paul also admitted to struggling with sin, no different than the rest of us. 1 Corinthians answers your question of why he continued to do the Jewish traditions even when he was not tied to them as the Law...and in his own words.

I understand the Corinthians passage...but that does not answer MY question...I really do not have to wonder, you do

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

There's before the service and after the service on Sabbath. Not sure why that question needed to be asked.

But there is no evidence of it?

 

[blackribbon]

Since the Nazarite vow is a temporary state, why would it go against what I have stated. He may have taken the vow and lived it to be acceptable to a certain population that he wanted to be able to reach.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Since the Nazarite vow is a temporary state, why would it go against what I have stated. He may have taken the vow and lived it to be acceptable to a certain population that he wanted to be able to reach.

Because it proves everything you said was wrong...it proves he did not do what you say he believed.

 

[Sketcher]

But there is no evidence of it?

Given everything that falls under the category of "work," I would need evidence that the majority of God-fearing Gentiles actually avoided all of that for the entirety of each Sabbath day that they attended synagogue.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

There's before the service and after the service on Sabbath. Not sure why that question needed to be asked.

it is very evident in Acts that the gentile believers kept the Sabbath. Acts 13:42-43 as well as other passages...you just do not have a case according to Scripture

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Given everything that falls under the category of "work," I would need evidence that the majority of God-fearing Gentiles actually avoided all of that for the entirety of each Sabbath day that they attended synagogue.

Since it was the Sabbath I have a better claim that you would.

 

[Sketcher]

it is very evident in Acts that the gentile believers kept the Sabbath. Acts 13:42-43 as well as other passages...you just do not have a case according to Scripture

That's a Jewish crowd, not a God-fearing Gentile crowd. The converts to Judaism would have been circumcised, making them Jewish.

 

[blackribbon]

Because it proves everything you said was wrong...it proves he did not do what you say he believed.

How does taking that vow mean that he suddenly believed he was under the Law?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

That's a Jewish crowd, not a God-fearing Gentile crowd. The converts to Judaism would have been circumcised, making them Jewish.

"Fellow Israelites and you Gentiles who worship God, listen to me!"

"On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy.

"Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles."

 

[blackribbon]

it is very evident in Acts that the gentile believers kept the Sabbath. Acts 13:42-43 as well as other passages...you just do not have a case according to Scripture

This simply said the people went to church/temple...it does not say that they recognized the Sabbath as a day of rest. They would go on that day because that is the day teachers were there to listen to. Also, initially it was thought that Gentiles had to convert to Judaism to receive the gift of salvation. But it was later made perfectly clear that this was not necessary nor expected.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

How does taking that vow mean that he suddenly believed he was under the Law?

Because it IS part of the Law!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

This simply said the people when to church/temple...it does not say that they recognized the Sabbath as a day of rest. They would go on that day because that is the day teachers were there to listen to. Also, initially it was thought that Gentiles had to convert to Judaism to receive the gift of salvation. But it was later made perfectly clear that this was not necessary nor expected.

that is a WEAK arguement...

 

[Sketcher]

"Fellow Israelites and you Gentiles who worship God, listen to me!"

"On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy.

"Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles."

OK, so there were Gentiles in the crowd too. There is nothing in that entire chapter to suggest that the Gentiles were fully keeping Sabbath. They were at a synagogue. There's also going home afterwards, and how one spends the rest of their day. Since we're talking about people who hadn't been circumcised yet, how can they realistically be expected to keep the rest of the law?

 

[blackribbon]

Because it IS part of the Law!

He said in 1 Corinithans that he practiced the Law when with people who believed they were still under the Law so that they would listen to him. It also says that he is NOT under the Law.

Also, the vow wasn't a bad one...it would draw anyone closer to God.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

OK, so there were Gentiles in the crowd too. There is nothing in that entire chapter to suggest that the Gentiles were fully keeping Sabbath. They were at a synagogue. There's also going home afterwards, and how one spends the rest of their day. Since we're talking about people who hadn't been circumcised yet, how can they realistically be expected to keep the rest of the law?

Come on, really? They were AT the synagogue ON the Sabbath...