Sabbath day...

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The reason the Temple was destroyed was because the Law was completed (paid in full) when Jesus was crucified. Even his last words were "It is finished". It is good to recognize the Sabbath but it is not necessary.

I personally don't think the actually day matters so much as that we rest and recognize that God is God. To focus on something like this is to be nit picky and to miss the whole picture of Jesus' commandments to love God over everything and to love your neighbor. If you feel called by God to practice the Sabbath on Saturday, then you should. However, it is not your place to judge when others recognize it. And this isn't a requirement to get into heaven...only believing in the sacrificial gift that came through our Lord, Jesus Christ is. To fight over something so trivial is to cause division among believers, something we are not supposed to do as Christians.

Then why did you ask me if I perform sacrifices??? So you personally do not think it matters what day? Wow, that's nice...obviously God DOES care. I am not judging, I am correcting. The Sabbath is on the seventh day, that has never changed.

 

[Noxot]

God cares but his law is wisdom that has many levels and many purposes.

passing the jordan is the same thing as keeping the sabbath. this verse explains clearly how the process that we go through concerning the law and fulfilling it and the real rest we must enter into means.

Deut 30:15-18 (YLT)
`See, I have set before thee to-day life and good, and death and evil, in that I am commanding thee to-day to love Jehovah thy God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commands, and His statutes, and His judgments; and thou hast lived and multiplied, and Jehovah thy God hath blessed thee in the land whither thou art going in to possess it. `And if thy heart doth turn, and thou dost not hearken, and hast been driven away, and hast bowed thyself to other gods, and served them, I have declared to you this day, that ye do certainly perish, ye do not prolong days on the ground which thou art passing over the Jordan to go in thither to possess it.

the holy land is a kind of symbol of rest but if we enter it with only mankind, the number 6, we make more confusion. the manna from heaven turns to worms or it does not depending if you have rest or not.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

God cares but his law is wisdom that has many levels and many purposes.

passing the jordan is the same thing as keeping the sabbath. this verse explains clearly how the process that we go through concerning the law and fulfilling it and the real rest we must enter into means.

Deut 30:15-18 (YLT)
`See, I have set before thee to-day life and good, and death and evil, in that I am commanding thee to-day to love Jehovah thy God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commands, and His statutes, and His judgments; and thou hast lived and multiplied, and Jehovah thy God hath blessed thee in the land whither thou art going in to possess it. `And if thy heart doth turn, and thou dost not hearken, and hast been driven away, and hast bowed thyself to other gods, and served them, I have declared to you this day, that ye do certainly perish, ye do not prolong days on the ground which thou art passing over the Jordan to go in thither to possess it.

I could say 1 + 1 = 3, but that does not make it true. What you wrote has nothing to do with the verse.

 

[blackribbon]

Then why did you ask me if I perform sacrifices??? So you personally do not think it matters what day? Wow, that's nice...obviously God DOES care. I am not judging, I am correcting. The Sabbath is on the seventh day, that has never changed.

My question is ... "what day is the true 7th day". We use the Roman calendar, not one dating back to the first day of the world. How do we know how good the record keeping was. We don't even know the true day of Christ's birth and that is a much more recent event. Why on earth would we assume that the Roman calendar somehow is based on the first day of the world's creation?

As for the question about sacrifices...well, that is part of the Law. And in order to get our justification through the Law, we have to uphold ALL aspects of the Law.
James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
So if you are not keeping the part of the Law that requires regular sacrifices or any other part...you are still guilty of breaking it all. The true beauty is that we are now living under the "law of the Spirit" which is what replaced the old Law (of sin and death) when Jesus completed it by dying on the cross. The Law of the Spirit is simple and easy to do if we truly love Jesus....Love your God and love your neighbor.... The Christian message is one where relationships is important...that with God and between all of God's children (even those unsaved). It isn't one of impossible to keep tasks and rules.

 

[Noxot]

I could say 1 + 1 = 3, but that does not make it true. What you wrote has nothing to do with the verse.

1+ 1 = 3 because two persons of the Trinity help to reveal the third. but anyways...


the law is important, they are exact details of a spiritual process of coming to know and be like God desires us to be. but humans blaspheme him and turn his laws into emptiness. the Lord has mercy on us and gives many levels of meaning for many different conditions souls find themselves in. so the law has Gods wisdom hidden in it and it can't be known without God.

the Lord sets many angels over us and depending on what we pick are the kinds of spirits we will be around and we are tempted by evil ones to go astray because we must have freedom to become. so if our conversation is in heaven then we shall have that kind of nature and whatever else we are like is what our perceptions shall proclaim about what we think the law commands us to do.

so if we do not enter into Gods rest we shall lack and miss the mark.

Exod 16:20-30 (YLT)
and they have not hearkened unto Moses, and some of them do leave of it till morning, and it bringeth up worms and stinketh; and Moses is wroth with them. And they gather it morning by morning, each according to his eating; when the sun hath been warm, then it hath melted. And it cometh to pass on the sixth day, they have gathered a second bread, two omers for one, and all the princes of the company come in, and declare to Moses. And he saith unto them, `It is that which Jehovah hath spoken of ; a rest--a holy sabbath to Jehovah-- is to-morrow; that which ye bake, bake; and that which ye boil, boil; and all that is over, let rest for yourselves in charge till the morning.'

And they let it rest until the morning, as Moses hath commanded, and it hath not stank, and a worm hath not been in it. And Moses saith, `Eat it to-day, for to-day is a sabbath to Jehovah; to-day ye find it not in the field: six days ye do gather it, and in the seventh day--the sabbath--in it there is none.' And it cometh to pass on the seventh day, some of the people have gone out to gather, and have not found. And Jehovah saith unto Moses, `How long have ye refused to keep My commands, and My laws? see, because Jehovah hath given to you the sabbath, therefore He is giving to you on the sixth day bread of two days; abide ye each in his place, no one doth go out from his place on the seventh day.' And the people rest on the seventh day,

 

[blackribbon]

so if we do not enter into Gods rest we shall lack and miss the mark.

So you don't believe that Jesus' death is enough to meet the mark and save us?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

So you don't believe that Jesus' death is enough to meet the mark and save us?

For salvation? Absolutely! Never said anything different!

 

[Noxot]

So you don't believe that Jesus' death is enough to meet the mark and save us?

as long as we die with him then everything will be fine. so I believe as much as I actually die. so if I say I believe but i'm not in his death and thus in his life, then i'm a hypocrite. so I can't say how much I believe because God gets to say that of me, not myself of me. and probably if i'm evil I would think I believed even when i did not, so it does not matter if I say I believe or not... but it matters if I really believe. faith is more than a few thoughts or confessions.

I see little difference in those who say they must do the law and in those that say they have a law that says if you believe that Jesus died for you then you are saved. both are only as good as the heart is pure and as they saturate in Gods grace and willfully cling to God.

the NT can become yet another law to stumble over. we should all be watchful of that. the lesser grace is truth, the greater grace is love.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

My question is ... "what day is the true 7th day". We use the Roman calendar, not one dating back to the first day of the world. How do we know how good the record keeping was. We don't even know the true day of Christ's birth and that is a much more recent event. Why on earth would we assume that the Roman calendar somehow is based on the first day of the world's creation?

As for the question about sacrifices...well, that is part of the Law. And in order to get our justification through the Law, we have to uphold ALL aspects of the Law.
James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
So if you are not keeping the part of the Law that requires regular sacrifices or any other part...you are still guilty of breaking it all. The true beauty is that we are now living under the "law of the Spirit" which is what replaced the old Law (of sin and death) when Jesus completed it by dying on the cross. The Law of the Spirit is simple and easy to do if we truly love Jesus....Love your God and love your neighbor.... The Christian message is one where relationships is important...that with God and between all of God's children (even those unsaved). It isn't one of impossible to keep tasks and rules.

It has nothing to do with the Roman calendar. You still do not understand. You cant keep parts of the Law for woman if you are a man and vice versa. You cant keep Temple law if there is no Temple. That is just silly. Again, you do not understand. HOW do you love God and your neighbor? Do you just say it and it is so? Yeshua saved us from the CURSE of the Law. The law is no longer only written on stone, but now is written on our hearts...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

so it does not matter if I say I believe or not... but it matters if I really believe. faith is more than a few thoughts or confessions.

I see little difference in those who say they must do the law and in those that say they have a law that says if you believe that Jesus died for you then you are saved. both are only as good as the heart is pure and as they saturate in Gods grace and willfully cling to God.

I can agree with that

 

[blackribbon]

For salvation? Absolutely! Never said anything different!

What "mark" are you trying to meet then?

 

[blackribbon]

It has nothing to do with the Roman calendar. You still do not understand. You cant keep parts of the Law for woman if you are a man and vice versa. You cant keep Temple law if there is no Temple. That is just silly. Again, you do not understand. HOW do you love God and your neighbor? Do you just say it and it is so? Yeshua saved us from the CURSE of the Law. The law is no longer only written on stone, but now is written on our hearts...

There is a reason that we can't keep the part of the law concerning sacrifice. And that is because the Law has been completed by the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus' death. The purpose of the Law was to "earn our way into heaven" and sacrifices were used to atone for the times we made a mistake. It also was to show that we as humans are not able to get to heaven through our own righteousness. It was to point out that we are sinful creatures. Through Christ, we no longer have to earn our way into eternal life but rather receive it through grace and the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus' crucifixion. Once a debt is paid, nothing is owed on it anymore.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

What "mark" are you trying to meet then?

No "mark"...just Loving God...

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

There is a reason that we can't keep the part of the law concerning sacrifice. And that is because the Law has been completed by the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus' death. The purpose of the Law was to "earn our way into heaven" and sacrifices were used to atone for the times we made a mistake. It also was to show that we as humans are not able to get to heaven through our own righteousness. It was to point out that we are sinful creatures. Through Christ, we no longer have to earn our way into eternal life but rather receive it through grace and the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus' crucifixion. Once a debt is paid, nothing is owed on it anymore.

Wonder why the Apostles as well as Paul sacrificed in the Temple before 70 AD then???

 

[blackribbon]

Wonder why the Apostles as well as Paul sacrificed in the Temple before 70 AD then???

Because they were Jewish and continued to follow the Jewish traditions to keep it from being a contention for the Jews they were trying to lead to Christ. Paul made it very clear that was the reason he kept the laws.
1 Cor 9:19-23 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Because they were Jewish and continued to follow the Jewish traditions to keep it from being a contention for the Jews they were trying to lead to Christ. Paul made it very clear that was the reason he kept the laws.

Well, no...now you are changing your story! YOU said "There is a reason that we can't keep the part of the law concerning sacrifice. And that is because the Law has been completed by the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus' death." Well for 40 years after Yeshua died and raised, the Apostles went to the Temple. Yes they were Jews. So yes, until the Temple was destroyed...

 

[blackribbon]

Well, no...now you are changing your story! YOU said "There is a reason that we can't keep the part of the law concerning sacrifice. And that is because the Law has been completed by the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus' death." Well for 40 years after Yeshua died and raised, the Apostles went to the Temple. Yes they were Jews. So yes, until the Temple was destroyed...

I didn't change my story at all. The law was completed when Jesus proclaimed "It is Finished". No sacrifice was needed after that moment. However, the Apostles still followed the Jewish laws even after they were no longer required to in order to be accepted to Jews so that they would be open to the message of Jesus Christ. They did not have to do the sacrifices any more, they just did. They were no longer under the old Law but they were still Jewish. There is a difference between continuing the traditions of your ancestors. Continuing the traditions is good because the traditions were good, but they are not tied to our acceptability to God.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I didn't change my story at all. The law was completed when Jesus proclaimed "It is Finished". No sacrifice was needed after that moment. However, the Apostles still followed the Jewish laws even after they were no longer required to in order to be accepted to Jews so that they would be open to the message of Jesus Christ. They did not have to do the sacrifices any more, they just did. They were no longer under the old Law but they were still Jewish. There is a difference between continuing the traditions of your ancestors. Continuing the traditions is good because the traditions were good, but they are not tied to our acceptability to God.

Well why would they then? They "just did"? That is no answer. You keep saying it was all abolished yet we can see they did not think so...they kept the Torah and sacrificed until 70 AD when they could not any longer BECAUSE the Temple was destroyed.

 

[blackribbon]

Well why would they then? They "just did"? That is no answer. You keep saying it was all abolished yet we can see they did not think so...they kept the Torah and sacrificed until 70 AD when they could not any longer BECAUSE the Temple was destroyed.

I will try again...IN PAUL'S WORDS

1 Cor 9:19-23
Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

 

[Sketcher]

So they were at the services...ON the Sabbath...and they were working ON the Sabbath...? Now THAT is a HUGE stretch! And WHERE does it say that again?

It's easier to attend a synagogue service than to avoid everything that is considered work according to halakhah for an entire Sabbath. Do you have Biblical proof that they kept all of that?

I have...read Galatians 5:4 and Romans 7:12

Romans 8 says that we now, through Yeshua, have a way to free us from the condemnation of the Law. Paul never says the Law is evil or bad, instead the exact opposite ( Romans 7:7 )! What he does say is that we are free from the CURSE of the Law.

Which doesn't help your case for the necessity of keeping Sabbath today at all.