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Sabbath, 7th day of the week.

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by JereReagan, Oct 21, 2002.

  1. JereReagan

    JereReagan New Member

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    All throughout the Bible and even into the New Testament God appoints his Sabbath day on the 7th day of the week. For over 2,000 years the 7th day of the week has been Saturday, and it wasnt until 401 A.D. or roughly around that time that the Sabbath day was destroyed and changed to Sunday. I'm curious as to why almost 99% of Christians goto church on sunday.

    Good day,
    Jere
     
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  2. Athlon4all

    Athlon4all I'm offline indefintely

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    Well, the idea of the sabbath is for man to be rested (both spiritually and physically). Numerous times in the OT we see statements like " It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you" Not to mention what Jesus said in Mark 2:27 "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:"

    Anyway, I just wanted to say that. About your original question, I don'rt know. I don't think it really matters The idea here is that God wants us to take a break once a week.
     
  3. JereReagan

    JereReagan New Member

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    But are we to tell God when we want to rest? The Sabbath of rest that God appoints throughout the OT are his commanded Feast Days of Leviticus 23. Those are called High Sabbaths so thats what God means by appointed Sabbaths. God said on the 7th day he rested, and for the last 2,000 years, since Christ was on earth, we have had a 7 day week scale.. And if you look at the bottom right of your computers calendar you will see that Saturday is the 7th day of the week. I checked into it and apparently in 401 A.D. or around that time the sabbath was destroyed and you were commanded to now do normal activities and work on the sabbath and the sabbath day was moved to Sunday.
    Jere
     
  4. paulewog

    paulewog Father of Insanity; Child of Music.

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    JESUS did not obey the Sabbath. Jesus .. fulfilled the Sabbath, and we don't have to keep the Sabbath anymore.

    The sabbath day was NOT moved to Sunday... that's just the day chosen to go to church by most churches, that's all. I compeltely understand that the original sabbath was on Saturday, the 7th day - but I go to church on Sunday. :)

    So, I'm not sure where you are coming from. Also, in Galatians 2... somewhere around verse 12 or so ... Paul says not to let people judge you based on the days you keep or what foods you eat. Those things don't determine our salvation. Furthermore, in a vision, God told Peter to eat an "unclean" animal. There are lots of instances like this... sort of pointing out that we don't have to keep all those Old Covenent laws anymore :)
     
  5. Mr.Cheese

    Mr.Cheese Legend

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    Where does the bible tell us to go to church on the sabbath?
    Where does it tell us to go to church?
     
  6. Mr.Cheese

    Mr.Cheese Legend

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    Jesus obeyed the Torah of Moses.

    He had no use for the oral tradition of the elders, which was rabbinic interpretation of the Torah of Moses. This was basically man's law.
    This is where he had most of his conflicts with the religious leaders. Their tradition eventually was compiled into what today is called the Mishnah.
    Don't confuse the two. the oral tradition, and the written Torah.
    "Fulfilling" the law is rabbinic language. Destroy the law means to interpret incorrectly. If one Rabbi was wrong in a discussion of Torah, the other Rabbi would say, "You are destroying the Torah!"
    Fulfilling Torah, is another way of saying, "I have come to teach you correctly the Torah."
     
  7. paulewog

    paulewog Father of Insanity; Child of Music.

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    Oooo! I know the answer of the second question!

    Somewhere in Hebrews... about "forsake not the fellowship" :)
     
  8. JereReagan

    JereReagan New Member

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    Paul,

    Christ was the Lord of the Sabbath and was very much a proof of how to act on the Sabbath. For instance it wasnt until after Christ that the Holy Spirit was Given out on Pentecost (High Sabbath) And that is after Christ was on earth.. God's Feast days as well as his sabbath day were still in FULL effect and still are. God's Sabbath day is commanded in the Ten Commandments, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it Holy. It's to be kept forever and ever. Also you will read that the apointed Feast Days in Leviticus 23 are to be kept in your homes forever and ever. Also you can read in the book of Genesis when God sperated the dark from the light and made the Stars and moon for the appointed Seasons (Seasons in hebrew means appointed festivals or feasts)... Showing that the entire reason that moon exsists is to tell us when we are to observe his Holy Days(High Sabbaths). The Sabbath was not fulfilled or destroyed after Christ, there were a few things in the Old Covenent that were thrown out such as burnt offerings, since Christ is the perfect offering and paid for all our sins, and there were a few circumcision laws and what not. But the Law and structure is still in full effect. We are still Israel all about the land living and waiting for the end of the Days... Look it up in Revelation, and how God will seperate Israel like a small kernal of corn in an entire field... and not the weakest one shall fall to the ground.(Amos 9) These laws were given to Israel to be kept forever and each Feast day and Sabbath pictures events to be fullfilled, why on earth would we stop observing them? Makes no sense. And why would we stop observing God's 7th day of the week sabbath? makes no sense.

    Good day,
    Jere
     
  9. Auntie

    Auntie THANK YOU JESUS!!

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    I have moved this thread to the "Spirituality, Religion & Ethics" forum, where the discussion of the subject is more appropriate.
     
  10. Mr.Cheese

    Mr.Cheese Legend

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    What exactly is the command concerning the Sabbath?

    As for not forsaking the fellowship, what does that have to do with going to church?
     
  11. paulewog

    paulewog Father of Insanity; Child of Music.

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    Well Mr. Cheese, the fellowship would sort of imply the body of beleivers. And church is where you get together with believers. Call it a church, a worship service, a Bible study, or whatever. :)

    I agree. And he 'worked' on the Sabbath, and His followers worshipped Him (God) EVERY day.

    That's because Christ left. That's when He said He'd give the "Comforter." After He left. :)

    That command is nowhere reiterated in the New Testmanent. I believe all the others are, but not that one. Interesting, no?

    Jews? Gentiles? Who was this written to again?

    Whoa, that is a major stretch. The entire reason for the moon is to help us keep the times and seasons, yes.... so what is times? Days, months, years. that's why the moon, sun, and stars are there. There is no mention of the Sabbath. I don't really see the correlation :)

    Oh? We're under law, not grace? I thought the verse was, under grace not law.

    Umm... we're not Israel. Where did you get that we were Israel? Israel = Jews :)

    Well, if you give me a good non-old-covenant reference where it says we should keep the Sabbath, that would be helpful to convince me. =)

    Also, we are NOT Israel. Israel is Israel, Israel is NOT the church.... thinking the church is Israel leads to all sorts of problems, hehe.
     
  12. stillsmallvoice

    stillsmallvoice The Narn rule!

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    Hi all!

    Well, we (orthodox Jews) keep and treasure the Sabbath (Shabbat in Hebrew) very much. It (and its myriad laws and customs) is one of the pillars of (orthodox) Judaism. A Jewish author once remarked, "More than the Jews have kept Shabbat, Shabbat has kept the Jews." Shabbat observance is one of the three things (along with keeping kosher & the laws on Jewish sexual morality) that are first taught to potential converts. Keeping Shabbat is part of what defines a Jew.

    Like it says in Isaiah 56:1-2.

    Be well!

    ssv :wave:
     
  13. Mr.Cheese

    Mr.Cheese Legend

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    Ahh!
    A Jew! An orthodox Jew!
    If anyone has a handle on the Sabbath, it would be a Jew.
    I'm gonna listen to this guy, he probably has the Torah memorized.


    Paulewog. Good stuff.
    Ok, what is the church?
     
  14. Arnold_Philips

    Arnold_Philips what

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    Paul: I am not certain but I remember reading it once. The Catholic Church moved it from Saturday to Sunday. They justify the change by saying that Jesus rose on a Sunday. And if that doesn't float your boat, they say that the Church is the ultimate authority and what they do is always good. Remember, I said I wasn't certain.
     
  15. paulewog

    paulewog Father of Insanity; Child of Music.

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    Well, that's not why I go to church on Sunday, nor why our church has it on Sunday, and I don't even believe that last part ;)

    Mr. Cheese - THE church is the whole body of believers... :)
     
  16. seventhday

    seventhday New Member

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    I had just finished preaching on the subject of the Sabbath in one of my evangelistic crusades. As I stepped off the platform to greet the people as they left, three young men blocked my way in the aisle. One of them addressed me in quite a loud voice - loud enough to cause about fifty people near the front of the auditorium to stop and listen.

    "Brother Joe," he said, "we were disappointed tonight with the way you put us back under the Old Covenant. Don't you realize that we are living under the New Covenant now, and should keep Sunday instead of the Sabbath?"

    Although most of the congregation were leaving the building, the group near the front gathered closer to hear all that the young men were saying. It was obvious that I would have to take the time to answer this trio's challenging question. As I suspected, they turned out to be young seminarians in training at a local Bible college. Eagerly they held their Bibles in their hands and waited triumphantly for me to answer.

    Usually, I do not like to debate controversial matters in a public forum, for fear of stirring combative natures, but there seemed no way to avoid dealing with these ministerial students. Anyway, they had my path completely blocked, and the circle of listeners looked at me expectantly for some explanation.

    "Well, it seems as though you have studied the subject of the covenants quite deeply," I suggested.

    "Oh, yes," they affirmed, "we know all about the covenants."

    "Good," I replied. "You undoubtedly know when the Old Covenant was instituted." One of them spoke up quickly, "It was started at Mt. Sinai."

    "And how was it ratified?" I asked. Without a moment's hesitation one of them answered, "By the sprinkling of the blood of an ox."

    "Very good," I commented, "and how was the New Covenant ratified?" All three chorused the answer, "By the blood of Jesus on the cross."

    I commended the young men for their knowledge of the Scriptures and asked them to read me two verses out of their own Bibles - Hebrews 9:16, 17 and Galatians 3:15. They responded eagerly to the invitation, and read the verses, commenting on each one after reading. "We agree that the New Covenant did not go into effect until after Christ died, and nothing can be added or taken away after He ratified it on he cross," the spokesman for the group asserted. All three nodded their heads emphatically over this point.

    I said, "Now you must answer two more questions for me. Here's the first one, and you must think carefully to give me the correct answer: When did Sunday-keeping begin?" There was a moment of shocked silence, and then another, and another. The boys looked at each other, and then down at their feet, and then back at me. I gently prodded them for the answer, "Surely you can tell me the answer to this question. You have known all the others, and have answered correctly. When and why do you think people began keeping Sunday?"

    Finally, one of them said, "We keep Sunday in honor of the resurrection of Jesus." I said, "Then I must ask you my last question. How could Sundaykeeping be a part of the New Covenant? You just stated that nothing could be added after the death of Christ. He died on Friday and was resurrected on Sunday. If Sunday was added after Jesus died, it could never be a part of the New Covenant, could it?"

    The three young men shuffled their feet, looked helplessly around, and one of them said, "We'll study into that and talk to you later." Then they fled from that auditorium as fast as they could go. I can assure you, also, that they never returned to talk further about the covenants.

    The fact is that Sundaykeeping, even if it had started on the day of the resurrection, would have been three days too late to get into the New Covenant. Both Bible and history prove that Sunday was never observed by the apostolic church. It was added much, much later as a result of the gradual apostasy which developed in the early centuries of the church and which culminated in the pagan accommodation of Constantine in 330 A.D.

    Millions of modern church members regard Sunday as a sacred day which memorializes the resurrection of Christ. It is certainly true that Christ arose on the first day of the week, but nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to keep that day holy. Events such as the crucifixion and resurrection should mean much to every Christian, but not one intimation is given in the Bible for observing either Friday or Sunday. The only day ever commanded for weekly worship is the seventh day of the week - the same Sabbath Jesus kept during creation week and the one He will keep with His people throughout all eternity. Genesis 2:1-3; Isaiah 66:22, 23.

    The very strongest reason for rejecting Sunday worship is that it was not included in the New Covenant requirements which were ratified by the death of Jesus. If Christ had desired His resurrection to be memorialized by Sundaykeeping, He could have introduced it on that same Thursday night of the Last Supper. Then it would have become a part of the New Covenant, along with the Communion service and foot-washing. Jesus did not hesitate to command the observance of His death, even though it had not taken place yet. Just as easily He could have commanded the observance of His resurrection, which was still future, in order that it might become a New Covenant requirement. But He did not! And no one else ever did either, until Paul's prophecy began to be fulfilled about an apostasy following his departure. Acts 20:29, 30. He spoke also of a falling away which would lead to the enthronement of Antichrist. 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4. But true it is that no hint of any change of the law is given in the Scriptures. The unchangeable moral law was preserved in both Old and New Covenants as the perfect revelation of God's will. If you would like to read the entire text of this booklet "Why the Old Covenant Failed" please email me at [email protected] and I will send you the entire text of which this is only part. :D 
     
  17. seventhday

    seventhday New Member

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  18. paulewog

    paulewog Father of Insanity; Child of Music.

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    Errr... He was out in the fields getting food, first of all. He walked all over the place, too.

    Please show me where in the New Testament the Keep-the-sabbath command is reiterated. :) Afterall, we're in the New Covenant, aren't we?

    Spiritual Jews? Perhaps if you want to look at it that way. But God is not finished with Israel. The Church did not take her place :)
     
  19. JereReagan

    JereReagan New Member

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    First off I wanna say you guys make no sense... Seventhday has it somewhat but what are you guys talking about...


    The Sabbath is not spoken of again in the New Testament


    ROFL


    Let's see here.... can I do a quick rundown on God's Law....

    If the Law is done away with... why do you goto confession... Forgive me father for I have sinned... No you havn't the law is gone... There's no such thing as sin.... BUT WAIT

    Sin is the transgression of the Law...... 1 John 3:4

    So when we Sin we are actually Violating the Law... hmmm ok Now let's think about this long and hard... And before any of you harden your hearts and try to slam me.... Just hear me out.

    Isaiah 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his rightousness sake, He will MAGNIFY the Law.. And Make it Honorable.

    Matt 5:17-20
    I did not come to destroy but to fulfill(or to furnish- to make replete (greek hebrew translation)
    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall
    in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach
    men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall
    do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness
    of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.



    Ok so here we see Christ saying.... DONT THINK I'm DOING AWAY WITH THE LAW.. I AM NOT.. I'M FULFILING IT.. To make Full.... To make replete... To make honorable... to MAGNIFY

    And how do we know he was magnifying... Well just look in the greek dictionary... or just read on ...

    You heard that it was adultery to take another mans wife...

    But now Christ says... If you even LOOK AT ANOTHER MANS WIFE, and LUST AFTER HER, You have already commited it in your heart..

    Its not done away with, and certaintly the Law is not done away with... I have over 57 scriptures that I can copy paste for you that will show you the law is still in effect to this day... Israel is Israel... Israel doesnt mean Jew ROFL.... Read your Bible you gotta be kidding me.. There were 12 sons who made up Israel, and each one moved to different parts of the world and expanded and grew all over. Judah was the Jew's, Israel is ISRAEL...

    And remember what SeventhDay said.... He said, If your Christ's your Abraham's Seeds and Heirs according to the promise... (Spiritual Israel) There are many many many scriptures showing that once you are baptized you die and you live in the newness of spirit... Heb 8... Read about the old and new cov... The New cov God wrote his Laws in the Hearts and in the Minds....

    Why else would Christ say, They draw near to me with there mouths but there hearts are far from me......

    att 7:21-23
    21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
    but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
    prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name
    done many wonderful works?
    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me,
    ye that work iniquity. (LAWLESSNESS! - see NT:459)

    thats what percentage of the world today???? can we say 95%? I think so

    Iniquity is Lawlessness... Once again, just read a greek/hebrew translation.....

    Stop trying to just take your parents word for it, I stopped and I started proving it for myself... It makes absolutely NO SENSE to think the Law is gone... The Law was a WAY OF LIFE.. The Law didnt bring Salvation, Christ did, does that mean we can continue to sin?

    Rom 6:1 Shall we continue to sin, cause we have GRACE????GOD FORBID!!

    Shall we continue to Violate the Law?

    What happened when the people brought Christ the woman caught in the act of adultery, and they said in the Law of Moses she should be stonned.... He said whichever one of you is without Sin, you can cast the first stone.... They all left, he stood up, were you condemned?

    Nor do I condemn you, Go and SIN NO MORE

    It wasn't have a nice day, or I forgive you do what you want....

    It means go and VIOLATE THE LAW NO MORE.... Christ didn't mean for us to do whatever we felt like...

    Zech 14:12 All nations in the kingdom of God shall go up year to year and Keep the FEAST OF TABERNACLES (Lev 23 - one of God's 7 Holy Days)

    But wait a minute... There done away with... I actually had a guy tell me thats because Christ is gonna come down and reinact them... ROFL

    He does away with the law, to come down and reinact them...

    Or how about Isaiah 66:23 - from one sabbath to another, all flesh shall come worship me (The Lord) (kingdom)

    Jeremiah 31:33 - In that day, I shall put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, I will be there God, and they shall be my people.

    If the law is gone, then it won't be kept in the kingdom of God... right?

    Micah 4:2 The law shall go forth from Zion (in the kingdom of God)



    Christ spoke over and over how they teach the commandments of men..

    Welcome to our world...

    We want the easiest way out of God's Law... And we take it.. We simply say Christ did away with the Law on the Cross... ROFL

    Christ did away with DEATH... THE PENATLY OF SIN IS?

    DEATH

    2 Tim 1:10 Christ has abolished death and brought life....

    Christ didn't do away with the law (way of life) he did away with the JUDGEMENT LAW, He condemned SIN, condemned the violation of the law... He paid our price, he put death on his shoulder and died for us... For when we are baptized we die, and a spiritual (your name) lives... And God's law is in your minds and hearts.... His Holy days are to teach his plan, His Sabbath is for us to remember the great creator, and to worship him.

    If Christ is the same yesterday today and forever why would being Homosexual be an abomination to him in Lev 22?? (I forget the scripture)

    And then after he dies you can go ahead and be gay... ROFL

    or how about, Don't eat pork, but when he dies you can eat it now... I think most of you get that from Peter's dream and when God sets down the sheet of wild animals... and he says.. KILL AND EAT... and what did Peter say....

    Surely not Lord, Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth...

    But if the Law is done away with, since this is AFTER CHRIST's death, then he would of just eatin the food... But he said surely not Lord...

    And what did the Lord say? Don't call anything impure that I have made clean....

    Does that mean he made all animals clean??? you gotta be kidding me

    He was teaching him (read in the very next chapter) That He has made gentiles (who were unclean), clean. He never ate the wild beasts, It was a lesson for Peter, something that was always unclean was now being made clean... Wasn't the Law of God being done away with, or pork being allowed... It was to show him, Gentiles can now recieve salvation...

    I have so many more scriptures I could share, but I don't have the time (packing)

    How bout we simply prove things for ourselves instead of speaking up to soon???

    Good day,

    Jeremiah
     
  20. Risen Tree

    Risen Tree previously Rising Tree

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    Good to see a thorough discussion on the Sabbath going on. :)

    Not honoring the Sabbath is one of the curiousities of our day. How fascinating that in a day and age where more "freedom" and prosperity is offered to us, it comes at the expense of spending personal time with our family and our Lord. How tragic is that? :(
     
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