Russian Tanks and Armored Vehicles Amassing on Ukrainian border

[ViaCrucis]

I don’t understand how that scripture is relevant to my post.

That doesn't surprise me.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hans Blaster]

Dark Enlightenment enthusiasts aren’t actually planning to overthrow the government. It’s just an ideological movement on the internet that promotes ideas, not illegal actions.

Ideas that oppose popularly elected governments.

How exactly do you think a non-popularly elected government will from from a political system where the government is popularly elected?

You think were going to elect such a group and never have another election again? (By what legal means would that happen?)

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Can you really conceive of a bunch of anonymous internet bloggers putting together a ragtag militia and defeating the United States Armed Forces? Call me crazy, but I certainly don’t think that will ever happen.

That's the fantasy of just about every 2nd amendment supporter in the USA, isn't it?

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Ideas that oppose popularly elected governments.

How exactly do you think a non-popularly elected government will from from a political system where the government is popularly elected?

You think were going to elect such a group and never have another election again? (By what legal means would that happen?)

It's not as rare an idea as you might think. I'd say a decent majority of the far-left groups on my campus back in the day had that exact idea of how their ideology would come to power. So I'm not surprised that nutty right wing groups would share that idea.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Why do you think Russia (Putin) believes NATO would ever attack Russia?

They remember what NATO did to Serbia. That they haven’t done the same with Russia is more due the difficulties in such an undertaking than the lack of desire.

That and 70 years on, Operation Barbarossa is still burned into their collective memory. Russians do study history, you know.

 

[Hans Blaster]

They remember what NATO did to Serbia. That they haven’t done the same with Russia is more due the difficulties in such an undertaking than the lake of desire.

Maybe if they don't invade or oppress their neighbors the won't have anything to worry about...

... so much for that.

 

[Andrewn]

You think were going to elect such a group and never have another election again? (By what legal means would that happen?)

Trump often talked about having a 3rd term to the applause of his supporters. He had no intention of leaving the presidency.

 

[wing2000]

They remember what NATO did to Serbia. That they haven’t done the same with Russia is more due the difficulties in such an undertaking than the lake of desire.

That and 70 years on, Operation Barbarossa is still burned into their collective memory. Russians do study history, you know.

Okay, but that really doesn't answer the question. There's no history nor logic that would lead Putin to believe NATO has designs on Russian territory.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Maybe if they don't invade or oppress their neighbors the won't have anything to worry about...

... so much for that.

Countries can and do get attacked for other reasons - but I think you already knew that.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Usually when I see people supporting foreign totalitarian and authoritarian regimes, it's because they are plants. Such as those who I regularly see trying to defend the CCP and argue that the CCP isn't persecuting the Uyghur population--they are very often very obvious shills.

I guess you know, kudos to Russian propaganda that they have managed to turn people in the West into Russian shills without them even realizing it?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Landon Caeli]

Usually when I see people supporting foreign totalitarian and authoritarian regimes, it's because they are plants. Such as those who I regularly see trying to defend the CCP and argue that the CCP isn't persecuting the Uyghur population--they are very often very obvious shills.

I guess you know, kudos to Russian propaganda that they have managed to turn people in the West into Russian shills without them even realizing it?

-CryptoLutheran

Now if we're going to be a free and open society, we're going to have to offer Russian plants the same due diligence we do anyone else, right..? Or no..?

 

[Pommer]

Now if we're going to be a free and open society, we're going to have to offer Russian plants the same due diligence we do anyone else, right..? Or no..?

If someone finds the need to parrot Russian points-of-view, then they are well within their rights to do so.
They should expect some pushback though.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Now if we're going to be a free and open society, we're going to have to offer Russian plants the same due diligence we do anyone else, right..? Or no..?

Was someone suggesting otherwise?

If someone wants to say whatever ridiculous stupid things they want, they have every right to do so.

That doesn't mean they are reserved the right to be free of criticism.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Okay, but that really doesn't answer the question. There's no history nor logic that would lead Putin to believe NATO has designs on Russian territory.

I just gave two examples. Then there's NATO instigating a coup in the Ukraine in 2014, and subsequent supporting for their puppet regime's aggression in Donbass...

Usually when I see people supporting foreign totalitarian and authoritarian regimes, it's because they are plants.

My views on Russia are my own.

Such as those who I regularly see trying to defend the CCP and argue that the CCP isn't persecuting the Uyghur population

Or try to play down the coronavirus origins in China, objecting to terms like "Chinese coronavirus" or "Wuhan coronavirus". Don't dare suggest that the virus originated where it did in fact originate.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I just gave two examples. Then there's NATO instigating a coup in the Ukraine in 2014, and subsequent supporting for their puppet regime's aggression in Donbass...

This is *literally* a Russian talking point. It's also false.

There is no evidence that NATO staged a coup.

The events started with the President of Ukraine ending an agreement for Ukraine to be more closely associated with the EU. This lead to protests in late 2013.

In February 2014 the clashes between the protesters and police became violent and 100 people were killed. The government of Ukraine had lost the support of the people and a settlement was negotiated with EU and Russian mediators. After the Ukrainian parliament ratified the agreement the president of Ukraine fled to Russia.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

There is no evidence that NATO staged a coup.

How much more proof do you need?

 

[Nithavela]

How much more proof do you need?

A non-zero amount.

 

[wing2000]

I just gave two examples. Then there's NATO instigating a coup in the Ukraine in 2014, and subsequent supporting for their puppet regime's aggression in Donbass...

Ukraine is not Russian territory. NATO has never threatened to invade Russia.

 

[Hans Blaster]

How much more proof do you need?

A couple US senators in a Ukrainian context in an undated photograph does not constitute "proof" that *NATO* planned a coup.

And even if this photograph is from the time period in question (winter 2013-14) and the other men are part of Ukrainian opposition, that does *also* not constitute proof.

The US is not NATO. The US was very open about its condemnation of the old Ukrainian government.

The original issue was about closeness between Ukraine and the EU. The EU is *also* not NATO.

If you're going to cast about accusations of "coup" at least pick an org that might stage a coup. I suggest the CIA.

Since the "coup" Russia has:

* sent non-uniformed troops into sovereign Ukrainian territory (Crimea).
* Occupied sovereign Ukrainian territory (Crimea).
* Illegally annexed sovereign Ukrainian territory (Crimea).
* Invaded other sovereign Ukrainian territory (Donbass).
* Shot down a passenger plane over sovereign Ukrainian territory.
* Repeatedly mounted cyber attacks against Ukraine.
* and continues to engage in military operations in sovereign Ukrainian territory (Donbass).

Russia can pack up and go back to their own country.

 

[Andrewn]

Map of the independent Ukraine in 1654 (against the backdrop of the contemporary Ukraine)

Cossack Hetmanate - Wikipedia