1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. We are holding our 2022 Angel Ministry Drive now. Please consider signing up, or if you have any questions about being an Angel, use our staff application form. The world needs more prayer now, and it is a great way to help other members of the forums. :) To Apply...click here

Russian media attitudes towards war on Ukraine (Orthodox-related)

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by archer75, Apr 3, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. archer75

    archer75 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,426
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    That is certainly true, and (in my opinion) totally inappropriate. And I cannot believe that the polls that show majority support for destroying Ukraine reflect actual opinions or even answers.

    Yet it remains true that the MP claims much (all?) of Ukraine as its canonical territory, the Russian government (often touted as somehow Orthodox) has chosen to send thousands of soldiers to kill civilians and be killed themselves in that canonical territory, destroy cities, towns, churches, and villages in that canonical territory, tying up and murdering children, trying to cover their tracks by burning dead families, while state media actually promotes the erasure of a sovereign country and its dominant ethnicity from the face of the earth and...

    the MP, despite having plenty to say about fictitious Nazi governments and some real problems that are visible in the West, is not making many remarks.
     
  2. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +18,163
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    it’s certainly a mess, and bizarre considering what the UOC-MP is saying
     
  3. archer75

    archer75 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,426
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Yes, just a short time ago, the UOC-MP were considered the victims of schismatics, but now Met. Onuphry says the invasion is a repetition of the sin of Cain. Now, we know sin is bad, so that means the invasion is bad. But according to the Russian government, the only way to be against the invasion is to be a Nazi or a Nazi sympathizer. And as we have seen, the MP posts similar materials about Ukraine exporting Nazism.

    So if Met. Onuphy is against the invasion, he is a Nazi or a Nazi sympathizer (not my opinion, but that's the conclusion one would come to going by the materials published by the MP and Russian state media). But the MP surely wouldn't support a metropolitan who was a Nazi, so that can't be...maybe he became a Nazi very suddenly just now? Boom, invasion begins, he instantly turns Nazi and then makes a Nazi comment condemning the invasion. But if he became a Nazi and his public statements show it, then you'd think that would be cause for comment by the MP...

    Of course, the notion that Met. Onuphry either was or just became a Nazi (for literally no reason) is absurd on its face, as absurd as the notion that Ukrainian Nazis who hate and want to kill everyone who speaks Russian willingly follow the orders of their president, who is a Russian-speaking Jew.

    So the only way to understand the situation is that the invasion is a grave evil based on completely transparent and absurd lies, Met. Onuphry correctly said it was evil, and the leadership of the MP does not care to condemn the invasion that has led to the violent murder of countless people, many of them Orthodox Christians under the MP, including children, on the canonical territory that just a few years ago it had plenty of time to affirm its claim to.

    If it's your canonical territory, you don't get to just ignore the obvious, well-documented, completely public causes of the violent murder of members of your flock. Do you?
     
  4. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +18,163
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    yeah, it’s all one big demonic mess.
     
  5. archer75

    archer75 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,426
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    I just don't understand why there's so little said about this, when there have been such extensive discussions of the BLM poster held by His Eminence Archbishop Elpidophoros. It almost seems like the "coolness" of the ROC gives them a pass on this.
     
  6. gzt

    gzt The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.07 billion years

    +1,769
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Private
    I, for one, am not going to say anything critical of Patriarch Kirill.
     
  7. archer75

    archer75 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,426
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    I guess it would be inappropriate.
     
  8. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +18,163
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    I dunno. the BLM stuff could be because BLM hit closer to home, or because BLM had more defenders so it was a more intense discussion.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  9. archer75

    archer75 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,426
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    That's possible, good points.

    Maybe I'm the only one (around here) who feels like this hits much closer to home and is a much greater danger to the world and the church (and I'm not faulting anyone who doesn't feel like this hits close to home). We have the single most visible Orthodox jurisdiction in the world, known for having very close ties with the government of the Russian Federation for the past couple decades. Then the government of the Russian Federation starts openly working right from Hitler's playbook causing an international crisis that could easily lead to nuclear war, and it's all simply for the political survival of one specific person...countless murders and atrocities, committed by the soldiers of (what we were told was) an Orthodox country against (who they say are) Orthodox residents of a neighboring country...with the open goal of genocide...
     
  10. E.C.

    E.C. Well-Known Member

    +1,066
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    Russians conveniently forget that they too have a Nazi problem.

    Well, it is complicated.

    Yes, there are neo-Nazi groups in both Ukraine and Russia. One of the more well known examples in Ukraine is the Azov Battalion which was integrated into the Ukrainian Armed Forces under, I believe, Poroshenko. Ironically, that group was founded in a region of Ukraine predominantly populated by ethnic Russians, but again, Russia will just conveniently ignore that.
    The other thing is given Poroshenko's politics calling him a neo-Nazi would probably not be too far off the cuff, however, he's been out of power for a few years now. Again Russians ignore this.

    During WWII you had a Ukrainian fascist, nationalist, and Nazi-collaborator named Stepan Bandera. Despite his actual Nazi political leanings, he is sometimes controversially celebrated as a national hero in Ukraine (assassinated in the 1950s by the KGB I believe); sort of like either George Washington or Abraham Lincoln, or Lance Armstrong before we knew about the steroids. This is because he had such a dream of an "independent Ukraine" and so in the mid-2000s the Ukrainian president at the time, Yushchenko from the Orange Revolution, posthumously awarded Bandera the Hero of Ukraine. That award was revoked after protests from Russia, Poland, Israel, the USA, the EU and a few others (the man killed thousands of Poles and Jews while collaborating with the Nazis). However, the Poroshenko government tried to re-award him the award but it didn't make it through Ukrainian parliament. Again, Russians ignore the fact that the award was revoked.

    Russia and Russians see Ukraine as a brother country similar to probably either the USA and Canada or Australia and New Zealand. Ukraine and Ukrainians do not share this view. This is because after the fall of the Rus to the Mongols in the 13th century, most everything from Kiev to Lvov in today's Ukrainian borders would be ruled by Poland until the Partitions of Poland under Catherine the Great. Eastern and Southern Ukraine would mostly be under either the Muslims or the Mongols; the Russians didn't come in until Catherine the Great. But again, Russians ignore these facts.

    Ukrainians have had a fairly militant view towards Russians for a long time because of how Russians treated non-Russians not only during the Empire, but also the Soviet Union. Are Ukrainians wrong for being attracted to Nazism? Absolutely. Can we blame them entirely for having gone to such an extremist view? Not entirely.

    Russians, as a people, have never been able to admit their own shortcomings and Putin is a great example of what that has evolved into. Sure, we have a lot of Orthodox saint who are Russian and are great examples for all of us. However, if Russians' attitude towards Ukraine is any indication than clearly their not being told the full story of those saints which they revere so much.


    EDIT to add: While not excusing Nazi, fascist, Communist, nor any other extremist group; I guarantee you that if the United States were to be invaded and occupied by some other foreign nation, like what Ukraine is going through now, among the first to fight said invaders would likely be our own crazies like the Proud Boys and the KKK.
     
  11. gzt

    gzt The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.07 billion years

    +1,769
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Private
    I don't know if they'd be the first, but they'd definitely make their own themed brigade.
     
  12. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +7,662
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    What you have are two dictators (basically this is what both Zelensky and Putin are) fighting one another, in their home territory. (Sort of like the Mexican-American war).

    If there is a "good guy" in this fight, it's ordinary Russians and Ukrainians being used as pawns and cannon fodder, otherwise arguments can be made against both sides and EVERYONE on both sides is being propagandized, full tilt, by media.

    The ONLY reason we (see media and elites the world over) are pro-Ukraine is because they see gain in having a pro-west Ukraine in our anti-Russian new cold war. (Otherwise why did they bother removing the democratically elected pro-Russia president).

    If it wasn't for gain, no one would care less about it, much like no one cares about Chinese genocide of the Uyghur's, Saudi Arabia's crimes in Yemen, Bahrainian government treatment of Shia, US led military interventions in the middle east of sovereign nations etc etc etc

    People only care about what they are told to care about and today it's Ukraine. If the elites didn't have a dog in the race people couldn't care less - and you'd never see it on the news.

    The only thing to do is to ignore the propaganda, and just be Christian.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2022
  13. gzt

    gzt The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.07 billion years

    +1,769
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Private
    I think you're glossing over the fact that Russia is invading Ukraine and armed resistance is overwhelmingly popular?
     
  14. FenderTL5

    FenderTL5 864511320 Supporter

    +5,062
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    US-American-Solidarity
    Then again there's an entire thread on this forum that serves no other purpose than being critical of the GOC.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • List
  15. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +18,163
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    I hope it all ends soon. just gotta keep praying.
     
  16. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +18,163
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    hmm, that’s interesting (and sad).
     
  17. gzt

    gzt The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.07 billion years

    +1,769
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Private
    Incline not my heart to any evil thing
     
  18. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

    +18,163
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    amen. we need more of this methinks.
     
  19. Dorothea

    Dorothea One of God's handmaidens

    +2,784
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    US-Others
    B&W comments, just like the pro-Ukrainian media. Nuance isn't applied.
     
  20. archer75

    archer75 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,426
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    I didn't follow, Dorothea. Which b&w comments do you mean?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...