Russia kills 50 civilians at train station, then blames Ukraine

[Halbhh]

A missile hit a train station where thousands of people had flocked to flee in eastern Ukraine, killing 50 people Friday, Ukrainian authorities said, while warning they expect to find more evidence of war crimes in areas abandoned by Russian troops.

Photos from the scene showed bodies covered with tarps on the ground and the remnants of a rocket with the words “For the children” painted on it in Russian. About 4,000 civilians were in and around the station, the office of Ukraine’s prosecutor-general said, adding that most were women and children heeding calls to leave the area before Russia launches a full-scale offensive in the country’s east.
Strike kills 50 at Ukraine rail station crowded with people


Russia denied it had carried out the attack, blaming it on Ukraine's own forces.

Ukraine says at least 50 people killed in Russian rocket attack on Kramatorsk train station

 

[loveofourlord]

well you see they were all armed, or there were soldiers there so totally the ukraines fault!

 

[Halbhh]

Anna Schevchenko, 63, accused the Kremlin of war crimes and told MailOnline: 'You would not believe what we have lived through there.

'The Russians were animals. They shot people trying to escape and left them in the street.

'Drunk Russians kicked down the doors of cellars and pulled women out and raped them. One girl aged just 15 was raped with her mother by several soldiers.

'They are animals. I hate them. One of my neighbours was shot in the back of the head by the Russians as he had shot a stray dog to eat as we were so hungry.

Ukrainian mother writes contact details on her child's back in case her family is killed | Daily Mail Online

@Robban

 

[Homeowner]

Warning for graphic scenes.

At 29:28 For the children, signed by...............

Video posted by

Russian Embassy in London

Yeah, that's the place to get your information. Impartiality guaranteed. Russian style.

 

[archer75]

It's ok cause they're all super conservative and don't like CRT. Right?

 

[miamited]

Hi @Halbhh

It makes me wonder what Russians are seeing on their news feeds and television news. Do they see the train station with edited pictures showing rail cars loaded with tanks and missiles and told how the Russian army had to blow up the station to protect mother Russia? That it was a military depot and not the cities public rail yard?

I know I've seen articles that say that the Russian government is using false propaganda videos and news to try to keep the general Russian population from knowing the real cause and effect of this Russian push into Ukraine. I read the other day that a Russian can't even google any actual news feeds from non-Russian news sources.

Sadly this is all too often what happens when a government entity controls the news and media. Despite all the alleged failures of our American freedom of the press, I'm glad that we can, if we really want to, find the truth.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Robban]

Anna Schevchenko, 63, accused the Kremlin of war crimes and told MailOnline: 'You would not believe what we have lived through there.

'The Russians were animals. They shot people trying to escape and left them in the street.

'Drunk Russians kicked down the doors of cellars and pulled women out and raped them. One girl aged just 15 was raped with her mother by several soldiers.

'They are animals. I hate them. One of my neighbours was shot in the back of the head by the Russians as he had shot a stray dog to eat as we were so hungry.

Ukrainian mother writes contact details on her child's back in case her family is killed | Daily Mail Online

@Robban

I am not a judge or lawyer, as well is,

for I know so little.

The video I had watched for 3-4 weeks ago,

reading OP reminded me of something in the video,

texts painted on rockets, a messsage to children.

Who painted those texts and who fired them.

I do not know.
I do not allow media to burn into my brain

thereby rendering myself unable to think for myself.

 

[archer75]

Hi @Halbhh

It makes me wonder what Russians are seeing on their news feeds and television news. Do they see the train station with edited pictures showing rail cars loaded with tanks and missiles and told how the Russian army had to blow up the station to protect mother Russia? That it was a military depot and not the cities public rail yard?

I know I've seen articles that say that the Russian government is using false propaganda videos and news to try to keep the general Russian population from knowing the real cause and effect of this Russian push into Ukraine. I read the other day that a Russian can't even google any actual news feeds from non-Russian news sources.

Sadly this is all too often what happens when a government entity controls the news and media. Despite all the alleged failures of our American freedom of the press, I'm glad that we can, if we really want to, find the truth.

God bless,
Ted

They use a lot of real videos and simply say "Ukrainian Nazis did [whatever] to innocent Ukrainians."

The original story was that just a few Nazis were doing this to Ukraine. Now they say that the bulk of the population are Nazis.

So according to Russia, Ukraine is mostly Nazified and as soon as Russian came in to help, the Nazis immediately started destroying their own cities, leveling them, raping and killing children and other civilians, executing families and trying to burn the bodies, driving millions of other Ukrainian Nazis away from their own Nazi bombings, all to make Russia look bad.

 

[Halbhh]

Hi @Halbhh

It makes me wonder what Russians are seeing on their news feeds and television news. Do they see the train station with edited pictures showing rail cars loaded with tanks and missiles and told how the Russian army had to blow up the station to protect mother Russia? That it was a military depot and not the cities public rail yard?

I know I've seen articles that say that the Russian government is using false propaganda videos and news to try to keep the general Russian population from knowing the real cause and effect of this Russian push into Ukraine. I read the other day that a Russian can't even google any actual news feeds from non-Russian news sources.

Sadly this is all too often what happens when a government entity controls the news and media. Despite all the alleged failures of our American freedom of the press, I'm glad that we can, if we really want to, find the truth.

God bless,
Ted

One of those hidden realities Russians don't see on their TV news is a reasonably accurate number for how many Russian troops have died. But maybe the more shocking thing would be for them to learn that most of the world is hearing about the Russian slaughters of civilians and seeing the pictures, and all the while they didn't hear any about it. I wonder if that moment of surprise and consternation will come.

 

[Homeowner]

thereby rendering myself unable to think for myself.

Well since we are over a month on this war what independent thoughts have you come up with ?

 

[Robban]

Well since we are over a month on this war what independent thoughts have you come up with ?

Mixed, I sensed long ago there would be a confrontation of some sort.

In and with Nato's expansion, in fact I have wondered why Nato

has not been dismantled long ago.

The threats from mr Trump over Nordstream 2.

Germany gets about 40% of it's gas and oil from Russia, at the same time they
had already decided to find a way to lessen their dependance on fossil fuels.

It take time, in the meantime what does one say about someone who
crosses a stream to fetch water.

Ukraine does not belong to either EU or Nato.

So how are Germany and countries other obligated to set their populations security at
risk?
That is a few loose thoughts but above all, I think war is, well,

I cannot find a word to describe how much I hate it.

 

[Halbhh]

Mixed, I sensed long ago there would be a confrontation of some sort.

In and with Nato's expansion, in fact I have wondered why Nato

has not been dismantled long ago.

The threats from mr Trump over Nordstream 2.

Germany gets about 40% of it's gas and oil from Russia, at the same time they
had already decided to find a way to lessen their dependance on fossil fuels.

It take time, in the meantime what does one say about someone who
crosses a stream to fetch water.

Ukraine does not belong to either EU or Nato.

So how are Germany and countries other obligated to set their populations security at
risk?
That is a few loose thoughts but above all, I think war is, well,

I cannot find a word to describe how much I hate it.

Yes, NATO didn't need to exist in the 1990s. But when Putin came into power, it began to be an open question again, because Putin didn't like the idea of free nations, even way back. There was a moment though, when it seemed possible that Russia could join NATO, and that would have been a good way to help defuse the Russian paranoia.

Where they have paranoia in the KGB, and it's successor the FSB -- as their natural mindset.

Putin was a KGB officer in East Germany, watching helpless as the West won the cold war and the Iron Curtain fell.

But if we could have gotten Russia into NATO back then, in 1996-2005 or so, it might have changed things, maybe.

 

[Halbhh]

Robban, you like independent thoughts.

Here's one I had back in the middle of March while the mainstream media was endlessly saying over and over how Russia would soon take Kiev, overwhelm Ukraine, etc. etc. etc.

And I thought....no. That didn't seem correct to me.

Even after 20 'experts' said it on various mainstream outlets, all the analysis.

I started doubting them a couple of days after the column heading towards Kiev stalled. Not after a week, but after a couple of days.

So, while the media would say "Russia is closing in on Kiev" I'd be like....that's so wrong. What a blind mindset.

Gradually it became more and more clear they had no clue, because they had a mind set, fixed thinking.

mid March:

Russia will be able to level cities, kill civilians, as they are now doing. But that's not winning. That's losing.

In addition though to Russia losing morally, as they already have, I'm saying Russia will lose militarily also.

Even if they entirely destroy cities and kills hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Mixed, I sensed long ago there would be a confrontation of some sort.

In and with Nato's expansion, in fact I have wondered why Nato

has not been dismantled long ago.

The threats from mr Trump over Nordstream 2.

Germany gets about 40% of it's gas and oil from Russia, at the same time they
had already decided to find a way to lessen their dependance on fossil fuels.

It take time, in the meantime what does one say about someone who
crosses a stream to fetch water.

Ukraine does not belong to either EU or Nato.

So how are Germany and countries other obligated to set their populations security at
risk?
That is a few loose thoughts but above all, I think war is, well,

I cannot find a word to describe how much I hate it.

 

[Robban]

Robban, you like independent thoughts.

Here's one I had back in the middle of March while the mainstream media was endlessly saying over and over how Russia would soon take Kiev, overwhelm Ukraine, etc. etc. etc.

And I thought....no. That didn't seem correct to me.

Even after 20 'experts' said it on various mainstream outlets, all the analysis.

I started doubting them a couple of days after the column heading towards Kiev stalled. Not after a week, but after a couple of days.

So, while the media would say "Russia is closing in on Kiev" I'd be like....that's so wrong. What a blind mindset.

Gradually it became more and more clear they had no clue, because they had a mind set, fixed thinking.

mid March:

I do not think it was Russia's intention to take Kiev, rather it was a part of a tactik

to pin down Ukrainian forces in different parts of the country.

Part 1 of operations,

part 2, to concentrate on Donbas region.

As a non military person it is what it seems to me.

One thing though,
Russia is a great nation and should at least be treated with a little respect.

 

[Halbhh]

I do not think it was Russia's intention to take Kiev, rather it was a part of a tactik

to pin down Ukrainian forces in different parts of the country.

Part 1 of operations,

part 2, to concentrate on Donbas region.

As a non military person it is what it seems to me.

One thing though,
Russia is a great nation and should at least be treated with a little respect.

Yes, after a while, that's the natural thought, and I had it also -- that the inept column heading towards Kiev was only a diversion.

Definitely would have made sense. Russians 'play chess'.

But....then we have gotten the report of several different generals going to the head of the columns/fronts to try to figure out what is wrong, and then killed by snipers.

Why would those generals go to the front line/head of the column and take the risk to be shot (as they were)? -- answer: because they didn't intend the column to halt.

Ergo, the column didn't do what they wanted it to do.

But that isn't why I think Russia is going to lose militarily.

I think so for other reasons, having nothing to do with the column or Kiev.

 

[wing2000]

n and with Nato's expansion, in fact I have wondered why Nato
has not been dismantled long ago.

Wonder no more....thanks to Putin.
If NATO did not exist, there's no doubt Putin would not stop with Ukraine to achieve his vision of a greater Russia.

Russia is a great nation and should at least be treated with a little respect.

Putin deservers zero respect until he reverses his illegal invasion of another country. He is the same league as Saddam Hussein when he attempted to take Kuwait in 1990.

 

[archer75]

I do not think it was Russia's intention to take Kiev, rather it was a part of a tactik

to pin down Ukrainian forces in different parts of the country.

Part 1 of operations,

part 2, to concentrate on Donbas region.

As a non military person it is what it seems to me.

One thing though,
Russia is a great nation and should at least be treated with a little respect.[/QUOTE]

Can you give an example of how this respect should
be shown?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

One thing though,
Russia is a great nation and should at least be treated with a little respect.

I like to think I gave Russia the respect they deserved as a country and a people for a long time but the last month or so has really degraded my view of them, their military capabilities and their leadership. Now I see their government as an overly sophisticated terrorist organization and their people mere victims of this same terrorist organization.

 

[dqhall]

A missile hit a train station where thousands of people had flocked to flee in eastern Ukraine, killing 50 people Friday, Ukrainian authorities said, while warning they expect to find more evidence of war crimes in areas abandoned by Russian troops.

Photos from the scene showed bodies covered with tarps on the ground and the remnants of a rocket with the words “For the children” painted on it in Russian. About 4,000 civilians were in and around the station, the office of Ukraine’s prosecutor-general said, adding that most were women and children heeding calls to leave the area before Russia launches a full-scale offensive in the country’s east.
Strike kills 50 at Ukraine rail station crowded with people


Russia denied it had carried out the attack, blaming it on Ukraine's own forces.

Ukraine says at least 50 people killed in Russian rocket attack on Kramatorsk train station

Russia has practiced misinformation propaganda for years. During the Cold War it was called “brainwashing.” That is repetitive lying.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

To pick up on a point I raised on the tail end of another thread:

Train stations, because they are transportation hubs, are legitimate military targets. The aim of hitting Kramatorsk station was to hinder the Ukranian army from moving troops and supplies to the front. That is a legitimate military objective. The Russians didn't attack civilians, they attacked a rail center where civilians happened to be present. It's hardly fault of the Russians if the Ukranian authorities were so irresponsible as to allow civilians access to the railroads so close to the front lines. The regime in Kiev has shown itself not to be concerned with the welfare of its citizens by the way it conducts this war.

Legitimate military target

"In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage."

Geneva Conventions, Protocol I, Article 52

"Some targets are clearly legitimate, including all military personnel directly engaging in hostilities on behalf of a belligerent party who are not hors de combat or are not members of a neutral country. Some civilian infrastructure, such as rail tracks, roads, ports, airports, and telecommunications used by the military for communications or transporting assets, are all considered to be legitimate military targets."