Rules for Retrogrades: Can Catholics Vote For Democrats?

[Gnarwhal]

I apologize if this should go in the OBOB Politics forum, but it's not news, nor is it about a specific policy, politician or candidate and more about how certain ideologies reconcile with the faith.

Mods if you still want to move it to the sub, feel free.

It's a 45 minute discussion between lawyer-theologian brothers Tim and Dave Gordon and it's pretty compelling!

Apple Podcast link here: ‎RULES FOR RETROGRADES on Apple Podcasts

 

[Dale]

I apologize if this should go in the OBOB Politics forum, but it's not news, nor is it about a specific policy, politician or candidate and more about how certain ideologies reconcile with the faith.

Mods if you still want to move it to the sub, feel free.

It's a 45 minute discussion between lawyer-theologian brothers Tim and Dave Gordon and it's pretty compelling!

Apple Podcast link here: ‎RULES FOR RETROGRADES on Apple Podcasts

Traditionally, American Catholics were Democrats.

 

[Michie]

Traditionally, American Catholics were Democrats.

Yes. But it is not even remotely the same party anymore. I doubt JFK would recognize it.

 

[Angeldove97]

It takes various viewpoints to run a country. I will probably end up voting Democrat in the next election because when I look at the big picture and all the points, I just can't vote for who the Republicans "want". I voted third party last time and still stand by that choice, but we need to make America great again.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Traditionally, American Catholics were Democrats.

And traditionally Catholics could vote for Democratic Party politicians. Then the Democratic Party changed.

Some people out there claim that it is TOTALLY wrong to vote for any Democrat anywhere ever. They claim that a vote for Representative Dan Lapinski, a thoroughly pro-life person in deed and in voting record, is a sin because he is a Democrat. That you can never vote for any Democrat ever, no matter who he or she is. End of story. Full stop.

I disagree. There are a small handful of decent Democrats who have not been shoved out of their party just yet. Nor have they sold their souls to Planned Parenthood. (Which STILL gets Federal money!) Probably few enough such Democrats that you could count them on the fingers of one hand. But these rare few are nonetheless people worthy of your vote.

I get into arguments with people over this. I'm right and they're wrong. But they tell me otherwise, very emphatically. It's an impasse.

I have a solution to the impasse. Dump the Democrats AND the Republicans. Solicit the rare few good Democrats and the not so common good Republicans to stand with a new party that reflects values of sanity and life and civility. Let the Democrats flounder. Let the Republicans flounder. Save the Republic. Vote with and caucus with the American Solidarity Party. Vote FOR something and someone for a change.

I will be an election judge for my precinct in the March 3rd primaries. This is the first primary where people who vote must declare to be either Democrats or Republicans to get a ballot. I will thus not be voting at all in the election, wishing not to declare as something I no longer am. And since I will not be declaring, and since election judges are nominated by the parties, and increasingly controlled by the parties, I will never be able to be an election judge again. But integrity has it's costs.

 

[Angeldove97]

This is the first primary where people who vote must declare to be either Democrats or Republicans to get a ballot. I will thus not be voting at all in the election, wishing not to declare as something I no longer am. ... But integrity has it's costs.

Good for you - I was listed as a Republican during the last primaries and I refused to turn in my ballot (I do mail in's just easier for me). Changed it on my record so I guess I won't be participating either. Our country needs to dump the 2 party system but I don't see that happening any time soon.

Good job having integrity - we need more Republicans and Democrats to wake up and have some too.

 

[Michie]

It takes various viewpoints to run a country. I will probably end up voting Democrat in the next election because when I look at the big picture and all the points, I just can't vote for who the Republicans "want". I voted third party last time and still stand by that choice, but we need to make America great again.

I can’t due to their bigoted pro-death views.

 

[Angeldove97]

I can’t due to their bigoted pro-death views.

I get that and I don't like the majority of their viewpoints on those topics either. Just for me, when I see the big picture, there's more to it than pro-life or pro-choice. I'm not going to vote for someone just on that area.

 

[Michie]

I get that and I don't like the majority of their viewpoints on those topics either. Just for me, when I see the big picture, there's more to it than pro-life or pro-choice. I'm not going to vote for someone just on that area.

It’s probably going to be third for me. I can’t stand the state of American Politics anymore. I simply cannot vote for a party that is so gung-ho on eugenics. Not only abortion but the disabled and elderly. No thanks.

 

[Lady Bug]

I'm at a loss on who to vote for now. I don't like the left, and although I'm pro-life, I'm receiving some sort of government assistance for something (it's not welfare, calm down lol) and Trump has been wanting to downsize that particular program and voting for Trump would be hence voting against my own interests. This is not fun.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Good for you - I was listed as a Republican during the last primaries and I refused to turn in my ballot (I do mail in's just easier for me). Changed it on my record so I guess I won't be participating either. Our country needs to dump the 2 party system but I don't see that happening any time soon.

Here's what I expect. Either Bernie or Buttigieg or Bloomberg will win the nomination. I don't know which one, although I once predicted Buttigieg. But the Democrats will be fractured in the process. Trump will win. BUT there will be a record number of third party votes. The gridlock and impeachment talk will continue. And the third party swing will continue to grow. We'll see if it actually takes off in the next election.

 

[Michie]

Here's what I expect. Either Bernie or Buttigieg or Bloomberg will win the nomination. I don't know which one, although I once predicted Buttigieg. But the Democrats will be fractured in the process. Trump will win. BUT there will be a record number of third party votes. The gridlock and impeachment talk will continue. And the third party swing will continue to grow. We'll see if it actually takes off in the next election.

I predict Bernie. Which I find scarier than Trump. And that’s saying something.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I predict Bernie. Which I find scarier than Trump. And that’s saying something.

Either of the three of them is scary. Yes, Bernie is scariest, but each of the three will be so divisive the Democratic Party will be in civil war.

 

[Gnarwhal]

The thing about Bernie is that so many people don't seem to realize what's at stake. He's not even really dancing around the socialist moniker anymore, we've degraded enough as a society that it's acceptable for an open and avowed socialist to be the frontrunner in a primary campaign. Hell, lately a 1972 quote of his has been circulating where he said he doesn't mind if people call him a communist. The guy who honeymooned in the USSR, and sang their national anthem while drinking at a Soviet bar.

I just can't believe how ill informed my generation is on recent history—many of us were alive (albeit, babies or toddlers) when the wall fell, and yet so many of them look on socialism with adoring eyes. Every day I become more and more convinced that it's a demonic delusion, especially after hearing several tirades from my Marxist coworker. The mental gymnastics to deny the staggering death count of 20th and 21st century socialist and communist regimes are nothing short of supernaturally wicked.

 

[John P. Alexander]

I'm fairly conservative. I'm not a Republican, but I'm more comfortable voting for them. With that said, it's interesting how many conservatives and/or Republicans say that the Democratic party has changed and the icons of its past wouldn't even recognize what it has become; at the same time, they often reject the idea that the Republican party has changed and isn't the party of Lincoln and hasn't been for a long time, and that the Republicans and Democrats have "switched". I admittedly think it's true that the two parties have more or less switched, but we have 21st century standards that doesn't allow for slavery or beating people. I find both parties appalling for so many different reasons, however it's the baby killing, identity politics, virtue signaling, socialism, and utter insanity of much of the Democratic thought that pushes me far away from the Democrats.

 

[Michie]

The thing about Bernie is that so many people don't seem to realize what's at stake. He's not even really dancing around the socialist moniker anymore, we've degraded enough as a society that it's acceptable for an open and avowed socialist to be the frontrunner in a primary campaign. Hell, lately a 1972 quote of his has been circulating where he said he doesn't mind if people call him a communist. The guy who honeymooned in the USSR, and sang their national anthem while drinking at a Soviet bar.

I just can't believe how ill informed my generation is on recent history—many of us were alive (albeit, babies or toddlers) when the wall fell, and yet so many of them look on socialism with adoring eyes. Every day I become more and more convinced that it's a demonic delusion, especially after hearing several tirades from my Marxist coworker. The mental gymnastics to deny the staggering death count of 20th and 21st century socialist and communist regimes are nothing short of supernaturally wicked.

I could not believe the list of things he said he was going to give out for free yesterday. I think the man is delusional. When something sounds to good to be true, it usually is.

 

[Angeldove97]

Here's what I expect. Either Bernie or Buttigieg or Bloomberg will win the nomination. I don't know which one, although I once predicted Buttigieg.

Buttigieg doesn't have a chance - he looks good on paper, but his personal life is going to ruin it overall (because of 1 thing). Bernie is scary. Bloomberg *shrugs*. Hubby and I are pretty close in political beliefs (keeps the peace lol) and he took one of those political tests that showed Bloomberg to be the best choice.

But yes this will break up the Democrats and Trump will probably win. Hopefully the government won't allow him to become Supreme Ruler and do away with future voting (I'm kidding).

 

[Angeldove97]

I could not believe the list of things he said he was going to give out for free yesterday. I think the man is delusional. When something sounds to good to be true, it usually is.

It would be interesting if our country COULD prosper while "giving away" so much. I'd rather have my taxes be given to health care, aid, and education than paying for more wars and bombs.

 

[Michie]

It would be interesting if our country COULD prosper while "giving away" so much. I'd rather have my taxes be given to health care, aid, and education than paying for more wars and bombs.

Wouldn’t we all? Unfortunately, we live in a world where we need to defend ourselves and others.

 

[Angeldove97]

I admittedly think it's true that the two parties have more or less switched, but we have 21st century standards that doesn't allow for slavery or beating people.

Except we still DO have slavery in this country - sex trafficking, slums, having to work 3 or 4 jobs to keep a roof over our heads and some food on the table, proper health care can't be afforded by many, etc.The government and big businesses (aka Trump's buddies) aren't doing much for the American people. Then you have groups who would love to bring back slavery or at least get rid of groups of people, terrorism, etc etc etc.

Too much bad news in this country.