Rug out from under me!

jannikitty

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God confirmed our move last year, doors opened, and now involved in serving as a small group leader in our new church. All confirmed gradually and blessings do abound. Yesterday some things happened which have me wondering if we made the right choice in moving there. I thought my husband and I were really hearing the right direction when we decided to attend this sister church of the same denomination.

Here is the situation: The pastor's mother leads the women's bible study program. She has befriended me and is a very strong and controlling leader. And she can be very difficult to work with. She has asked us to keep the women from church bashing; yet yesterday when she gave me a ride to and from the meeting she herself began some very negative remarks and expressed very narrow thinking about other churches herself.

She doesn't let me finish my sentences nor seems to care to listen. Very negative but gives a regal presentation and appearance. She is busy promoting her agenda. Just really hard to work with. I know prayer is the answer but in the mean time any suggests as to how to work with or around this hypocrisy will help. Am trying to get through my feelings and surely don't want to enter into the church bashing or gossip to get along with her. Not planning a move until the sessions are finished next month but am prayerfully and seriously considering whether this is the place for me. Open to suggestions, etc. And be assured I know that praying for her is good; but doubt whether she would receive confrontation well or at all. Please pray for me to have wisdom in this situation.
 
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yuppers

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I can't really give you any advice from my own experience, but I'll try. I've heard testimonies from other people. They talk about how god lead them somewere. There always seems to be a point somewere of dought and confusion.

My advice from hearing others testimonies is keep on fighting. If you felt god leading you to we're you are then he's still with you now. Our little human brains only see the tiny picture, god sees the big one. Hope things work out for you, don't loose hope. :)
 
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Autumnleaf

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Pauses and boundaries. If she starts trash talking other people, places or things stop her and ask her to please not gossip when you are around as you feel it stifles the Holy Spirit.

When you talk do it slow ly so she has to listen and can't think ahead to cut you off. Try it its kind of fun. If she does cut you off then let her finish talking and then repeat what you were saying and finish yourself. Tell her you great grandmother, God rest her soul, was a saint who said its incredibly rude and arrogant to cut people off when they are talking.

Tweak a few things and see how things go. If her agenda is good for the church maybe give it a shot. If its just her being pushy then back away and let her stand alone in her self will. You don't have to go, but you don't have to be a part of 'that' either.
 
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razzelflabben

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God confirmed our move last year, doors opened, and now involved in serving as a small group leader in our new church. All confirmed gradually and blessings do abound. Yesterday some things happened which have me wondering if we made the right choice in moving there. I thought my husband and I were really hearing the right direction when we decided to attend this sister church of the same denomination.

Here is the situation: The pastor's mother leads the women's bible study program. She has befriended me and is a very strong and controlling leader. And she can be very difficult to work with. She has asked us to keep the women from church bashing; yet yesterday when she gave me a ride to and from the meeting she herself began some very negative remarks and expressed very narrow thinking about other churches herself.

She doesn't let me finish my sentences nor seems to care to listen. Very negative but gives a regal presentation and appearance. She is busy promoting her agenda. Just really hard to work with. I know prayer is the answer but in the mean time any suggests as to how to work with or around this hypocrisy will help. Am trying to get through my feelings and surely don't want to enter into the church bashing or gossip to get along with her. Not planning a move until the sessions are finished next month but am prayerfully and seriously considering whether this is the place for me. Open to suggestions, etc. And be assured I know that praying for her is good; but doubt whether she would receive confrontation well or at all. Please pray for me to have wisdom in this situation.
we are currently in a situation in our church (long, long story) in which we both want to leave. Just sooo very tired of the hypocrisy, unchallenged and unrepentant sin, etc. It got to the point that we decided to put out a fleece to see if it was indeed time to leave. The fleece came back (totally God's doing, not something these people are capable of in their current state) that we are to stay.

Now staying means two things 1. we must live out Christ no matter the cost. In your situation it would mean talking to the woman as per her request you to do all those in violation. I was faced with this once in our church, confronted in love. The other person got angry, then reconciled knowing I was right, and now, we are considered by her to be the best of friends. I'm not saying that it will be easy to follow God, or that feathers won't be stirred, but standing firm for God is what is important.

The 2. thing staying means is that God has a purpose for our staying. That purpose might be to challenge them to godliness, it could be to teach, it could be to encourage the faithful that remain even though they are tired....etc....it could be a combination of things, or it could be that HE simply needs us to be a thorn in their side so to speak, keeping some uncomfortable so that He can work in them. the answer eludes us, but the solution is easy, pray and ask God what He needs us to do while there and then listen to His still small voice tell us step by step, trusting when we can't see the big picture.

May you have strength to stand firm in the Lord, courage to do all that He asks, wisdom to trust Him not only in the things that seem right but also in the things that seem to be crazy. May you endure to the end, ever faithful, ever trusting, ever Loving even the unlovable. May you discover the truths of God, the things hidden that God intends to reveal and in that, allow praise and thanksgiving to always be on your lips.
 
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angelkiss

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When I am faced with this situation, I follow the negative comments with positive feedback. This is my way of pointing out the good in others and broadening the perspective of the other person.
For instance, if someone runs down other churches, I always follow it up with something like, "The church is all those who are obedient to God. The people are different, but the Holy Spirit is the same, always. Therefore, it's the heart of a person that is important, not the building they worship in. The Spirit is revealed through others and is felt through actions and words. If our actions and words are of love, then we plant that seed. If they are not, then the seed we have just planted will not take root and can cause someone to turn away and possibly question all Christians."
This is just my own personal way of dealing with such things. Not only does it point out the good in others, if someone truly hears, it puts them in ponder of themselves. Not everyone agrees on the same beliefs, but we can still get along in love.
Praying for your situation.
Blessings,
:angel::kiss:
 
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BFine

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The minister's mom only "controls" those who have given her
permission to do so... I've seen this played out in various churches
when I still lived in North Carolina... the minister's family occupy
many positions at church and other folks are "afraid" to say anything.
..because they "fear" man.

They took issue when I challenged them
on that and feathers got all ruffled when I inquired as to why the offerings
were regularly "off"...suddenly the accounting got right, nothing came up "short"
and a financial statement was posted on the bulletin board quarterly from
then on. Fellow members started to "wake" up and test things also...that little
church made a nice turn-around and more people started attending it and
taking an active role(s).

Hang in there... remember even Moses had to face difficult people numerous
times when he was called to lead the children of Israel.

When you have the time, read over his story in the Bible.
 
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LoricaLady

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We all have had times when we felt Abba was directing us, but later it turned out that we were not, really. Learning to be sure it is Him takes a lot of practice and prayer, which you no doubt know already.

That woman sounds toxic, a stress producer. If you can't avoid her, if you can't be with those whom you can edify while you yourself are being lifted up and strengthened in faith, then sure go elsewhere. That is not a crime either per the laws of the land or per the Bible!

Praying you will be led in the paths where there is true fellowship.
 
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razzelflabben

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We all have had times when we felt Abba was directing us, but later it turned out that we were not, really. Learning to be sure it is Him takes a lot of practice and prayer, which you no doubt know already.

That woman sounds toxic, a stress producer. If you can't avoid her, if you can't be with those whom you can edify while you yourself are being lifted up and strengthened in faith, then sure go elsewhere. That is not a crime either per the laws of the land or per the Bible!

Praying you will be led in the paths where there is true fellowship.
one quick comment about the Lord's leading. Sometimes He leads us somewhere for reasons that are different from what we expect.

Quick story (and just for the record, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, I'm using your post as a board to give another example of God's leading)

some years ago, my husband and I both felt called to the same area. The callings were separate from each other but showed confirmation. We decided to go, but lacked the money. Miracles happened and God provided the money and so another confirmation and we went. We went thinking that because of the way God was working in our lives, He intended us to plant a church. What we discovered was that He took us there to live the homeless life, so that we could challenge others to follow Him no matter the cost.

Now, I am not saying that He is calling anyone to homelessness and He has greatly blessed us in, through, and since. But sometimes, the calling is to challenge us, sometimes to challenge others, sometimes, just to reassure us that we will follow wherever He leads. The point is, just because it didn't work out the way you thought it would, does NOT mean is wasn't His leading in your life. The trick is to find out what His purpose for you being there really is and in that, live it out to it's fullest.

Again, this is not a disagreement with this poster, just using this post to say something else with regards to the OP
 
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Albion

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The controlling style of this woman is one thing that naturally upsets you, but I'm not sure about the bashing matter.

Is it possible that there is some difference between the two, for instance that she talks to you as a confidant whereas she was concerned about other people bashing the denomination (if that's what was meant) in public and therefore are poisoning the whole congregation?

Or could it be that what's undeniable "bashing" in one situation, i.e. unfounded rumors or vague insinuations, is not what is going on in the other situation where it may only amount to the expression of concern about developments that should worry anyone in a leadership position in the church?
 
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BigBobby

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God may have put you in her life to help her.

Pray for her. Love her. Let His light shine through you.

We don`t have to be a door mat to people so I agree that it`s always ok to establish boundaries like one of the other posters said.

I`m just saying that you shouldn`t rule out the possibility that YOU are an answer to prayer for that community of Christians.
 
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There are difficult people wherever you go. Where you find strong leaders, you will also find strong personalities. I agree that God might have led you there for that purpose -- especially if you are a good mediator.

People who demand a lot of others are often able to build up a following quickly; but as you can see, the following is not as devoted as they'd like.

I am a little suspicious when leaders ask for a halt in gossip. That usually means they have already been inconvenienced by people who disagree with how things were run.
Whether they have something to hide, or are weary of continual backlash, there are many sides to the story.

I liked BFine's example of accountability. As church members and fellow believers, we have a right to protect the operations of the church. That can entail confrontation, but still have a positive intent. Problems can be handled maturely.

Most traditional Protestant churches are set up with the elders in charge of church decisions, with general member approval; the non-voting pastors hired by the congregation, and the elders selected by voting members. The pastor is not given the right to shush the congregation. The pastor's wife is not hired by the church, but can become a voting member (and is often expected to devote much time to leadership, uncompensated).

It could be that people are gossiping behind her back, because she is limiting the ability of the flock to move in their strengths. If she is already a domineering person, she might forget that a leader's role is to facilitate and coordinate -- not to do it all herself. But also she might have realized that the pastoral wife position demands a lot of her without gratitude or compensation, so she is grabbing what she can.

It can be hard to manage a few hundred (or more) people, and gossip can make it harder. Each person should be growing into full responsibility... but some would rather complain than try to enact positive change.

Listen to each conversation and hear people out, but don't let the Bible study misrepresent the church. Take the other conversations outside. Give people a chance to voice their concerns, but let the Bible study serve its purpose. The church sponsors the group, and you have agreed to lead a Bible study. Still, if real concerns need to be aired and addressed, create a new venue where people can find solutions together. Ask one of the members to organize a coffee klatch, either in an inexpensive diner or someone's home.
 
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But sometimes, the calling is to challenge us, sometimes to challenge others, sometimes, just to reassure us that we will follow wherever He leads. The point is, just because it didn't work out the way you thought it would, does NOT mean is wasn't His leading in your life. The trick is to find out what His purpose for you being there really is and in that, live it out to it's fullest.
icon14.gif
 
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jannikitty

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There are difficult people wherever you go. Where you find strong leaders, you will also find strong personalities. I agree that God might have led you there for that purpose -- especially if you are a good mediator.

People who demand a lot of others are often able to build up a following quickly; but as you can see, the following is not as devoted as they'd like.

I am a little suspicious when leaders ask for a halt in gossip. That usually means they have already been inconvenienced by people who disagree with how things were run.
Whether they have something to hide, or are weary of continual backlash, there are many sides to the story.

I liked BFine's example of accountability. As church members and fellow believers, we have a right to protect the operations of the church. That can entail confrontation, but still have a positive intent. Problems can be handled maturely.

Most traditional Protestant churches are set up with the elders in charge of church decisions, with general member approval; the non-voting pastors hired by the congregation, and the elders selected by voting members. The pastor is not given the right to shush the congregation. The pastor's wife is not hired by the church, but can become a voting member (and is often expected to devote much time to leadership, uncompensated).

It could be that people are gossiping behind her back, because she is limiting the ability of the flock to move in their strengths. If she is already a domineering person, she might forget that a leader's role is to facilitate and coordinate -- not to do it all herself. But also she might have realized that the pastoral wife position demands a lot of her without gratitude or compensation, so she is grabbing what she can.

It can be hard to manage a few hundred (or more) people, and gossip can make it harder. Each person should be growing into full responsibility... but some would rather complain than try to enact positive change.

Listen to each conversation and hear people out, but don't let the Bible study misrepresent the church. Take the other conversations outside. Give people a chance to voice their concerns, but let the Bible study serve its purpose. The church sponsors the group, and you have agreed to lead a Bible study. Still, if real concerns need to be aired and addressed, create a new venue where people can find solutions together. Ask one of the members to organize a coffee klatch, either in an inexpensive diner or someone's home.

Not referring to the pastor's wife at all..rather the pastor's mother. She heads up the women's bible studies. As for avoiding gossip, church bashing, etc. this is what she gave us in the bible study leaders manual as to what to steer away from in our small group discussions. She has not announced this to the church as a whole. It simply dismayed me that she asked us to do this and then did not do it herself especially since the church she was bashing is my daughter's. So, I likely took it too personally and now am taking a stance of forgiving and humility. Best to read the OP's first post a bit more carefully before advising as most have done here before coming out with elaborate advice. It does avoid confusion. But, no problem since I have done that myself..came back quickly without reading carefully so getting the facts wrong.

Peace and blessings. Janni..the OP.
 
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jannikitty

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I so value the good advice given here and appreciate that most of you read my original post carefully before posting. That way there is less confusion.

Yesterday a good friend (not in our church..thus more objective) whose opinion I really trust counseled me to simply..let forgiveness and humility be my stance and the rest will fall into place. I do think I took the whole thing personally because I have a grown daughter in the church the pastor's mother (not the pastor's wife) was bashing. I should have forgiven that early on and not argued with her about it; but do appreciate that I reached out here and received such a helpful and warm response from many. Of course, I know that what she did was not right and God will show me what my part is in it from now on. Prayers for her will continue and waiting on what I will do at just the right time is needed if I am to do anything, that is, besides forgiving and praying. I will stay put remaining leading my group as before and trusting that the Spirit will move me when needed. For such a time as this I am there and it is no accident even though it is not as easy as I had hoped or thought it would be.

So, I won't remain in a worry stance. A good night's sleep helped as well as something like that can take a lot out of you and when you are over 70..you need rest more than ever.

The devil is a liar and always wants to make much ado. Not going there.

For years I have posted giving advice on this section. And God has blessed me back with your heartfelt responses. Isn't He good?

Thanks again. :wave::thumbsup::clap:janni...
 
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pastor's mother.
Sorry for the error.

Best to read the OP's first post a bit more carefully before advising as most have done here before coming out with elaborate advice.
I would not have said anything differently, and am surprised that you turn it into an attack against me.
 
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Responsibility requires careful preparation, new suggestions in that once church members are reminded regularly with beforehand instructions what they need to do quickly without hanging around and get carried away with personal chat conversations, thus avoiding unnecessary criticism.;'*';.
:liturgy:
 
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bottledwater

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God confirmed our move last year, doors opened, and now involved in serving as a small group leader in our new church. All confirmed gradually and blessings do abound. Yesterday some things happened which have me wondering if we made the right choice in moving there. I thought my husband and I were really hearing the right direction when we decided to attend this sister church of the same denomination.

Here is the situation: The pastor's mother leads the women's bible study program. She has befriended me and is a very strong and controlling leader. And she can be very difficult to work with. She has asked us to keep the women from church bashing; yet yesterday when she gave me a ride to and from the meeting she herself began some very negative remarks and expressed very narrow thinking about other churches herself.

She doesn't let me finish my sentences nor seems to care to listen. Very negative but gives a regal presentation and appearance. She is busy promoting her agenda. Just really hard to work with. I know prayer is the answer but in the mean time any suggests as to how to work with or around this hypocrisy will help. Am trying to get through my feelings and surely don't want to enter into the church bashing or gossip to get along with her. Not planning a move until the sessions are finished next month but am prayerfully and seriously considering whether this is the place for me. Open to suggestions, etc. And be assured I know that praying for her is good; but doubt whether she would receive confrontation well or at all. Please pray for me to have wisdom in this situation.

You need to nip this in the bud now. Before you set a presidence of allowing a tradition of hypocrisy. God gave you a Spirit of power.
Remember that along with that power, to show a spirit of genuine love and forgiveness toward this woman, because she is not the enemy. She is just another struggling christian soldier that needs to receive the same mercy from you as we received from the Lord.
Did it ever occur to you, that this may be why you were called there.
Keep your chin up sister. The number of those of us that are for you, are far greater than the number of those against you.
 
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If Not For Grace

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Counter negative remarks with positive ones. Call her on the negatives by saying--"you're right, we have got to do something about all this negativity, it's even rubbing off on "our" conversation, will you pray with me now that this spirit of negativity be broken?"

Set boundaries, it will take some time, but perhaps this is one of the reasons..you were called to be where you are :) Let your light shine!
 
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