Rudy Giuliani's role in messing everything up for Trump re: Ukraine

[SimplyMe]

And isn't being pressured to do something the main thing Trump is said to have done to this guy? If Trump-haters are going to claim the Ukrainian president was being pressured into doing something, and the guy himself says he wasn't, then there's no reason for people here to be essentially calling him a liar.



Every politician is going to have their haters, regardless of the country.

No, Trump was said to have invoked quid pro quo. And pressure is a very un-precise term. He could easily have felt Trump was saying that he needed to get an investigation into Biden started in order to get the money without feeling "pressure."

 

[Nithavela]

Including crimes he has admitted to in a memo he just released.

Come on, is anyone actually falling for the "poor persecuted Donald" spin?

Yes.

 

[Tom 1]

The Ukrainian president himself said he wasn't pressured. Why aren't his words ever being used by Trump's detractors? Isn't the Ukrainian president the one being made out to be the victim in all this?

No, the issue is your president using extortion against a foreign power to try and recruit them by any means available to provide anything damaging, whether accurate or not, to his political opponents. The bigger issue would be people thinking that is entirely normal and nothing to be concerned about.

 

[Tom 1]

They've been doing plenty more than that over the past 3 years. It would take forever to point it all out here.

I read the press daily, a cross section. There’s been plenty ridicule of Trump, some of it a little unnecessary. Nothing like the endless stream of bile that flows out of Breitbart & the like towards people they don’t like however.
You might have heard the phrase ‘if you don’t like it, don’t dish it out’. There hasn’t been a single person involved in any kind of reporting who comes anywhere close to Trump in the viciousness of personal attacks, whether directed at his ex wives or just basically anyone who isn’t doing what he wants at any moment in time.

 

[KCfromNC]

In that case, there is no sign of extortion there.

Good on you for having an opinion!

Too bad for Donald the people involved in investigating these sorts of claims found it credible.

 

[Aldebaran]

No, Trump was said to have invoked quid pro quo. And pressure is a very un-precise term. He could easily have felt Trump was saying that he needed to get an investigation into Biden started in order to get the money without feeling "pressure."

Then let him testify to that. So far, we just have everyone else who doesn't like Trump testifying as to what he felt, or may have felt.

 

[Aldebaran]

No, the issue is your president using extortion against a foreign power to try and recruit them by any means available to provide anything damaging, whether accurate or not, to his political opponents. The bigger issue would be people thinking that is entirely normal and nothing to be concerned about.

Whether accurate or not? That's quite an assumption, and I doubt such assumptions will be convincing to anyone (who is fair minded) during the impeachment process.

 

[Aldebaran]

I read the press daily, a cross section. There’s been plenty ridicule of Trump, some of it a little unnecessary. Nothing like the endless stream of bile that flows out of Breitbart & the like towards people they don’t like however.
You might have heard the phrase ‘if you don’t like it, don’t dish it out’. There hasn’t been a single person involved in any kind of reporting who comes anywhere close to Trump in the viciousness of personal attacks, whether directed at his ex wives or just basically anyone who isn’t doing what he wants at any moment in time.

If you had the access to the American Press as we do here in America, you would be hearing way more than a "single person" doing it.

 

[Aldebaran]

Good on you for having an opinion!

Too bad for Donald the people involved in investigating these sorts of claims found it credible.

The investigation isn't even finished, so you can't conclude that.

 

[SimplyMe]

Whether accurate or not? That's quite an assumption, and I doubt such assumptions will be convincing to anyone (who is fair minded) during the impeachment process.

Nice cherry picking. You realize that "accurate or not" was in reference to information about the Bidens, it was not referring to the investigation being accurate.

It also appears that the "accurate at not" concerning the information about Biden is accurate. The Ukraine investigation was finished in 2017 -- after Trump was President -- and found no wrongdoing by the Bidens. Now, for Trump to be looking for "evidence" and sending his personal attorney, never telling Barr to talk to the Ukraine (as he said he would not the phone call) or to investigate the Bidens, does not make it appear he is looking for evidence to bring them to justice.

This is doubly true, as I keep pointing out, since evidence against Joe Biden would be here in the US -- such as if he personally blocked the loan to the Ukraine, then that evidence is in US records. Or, if the current evidence appears to show, he did not do it was just the envoy that informed the Ukraine of the conditions on the loan, that evidence would also be here in the US. What Biden did in the Ukraine is largely not in doubt, particularly with recording of Biden saying he did it.

 

[Tom 1]

If you had the access to the American Press as we do here in America, you would be hearing way more than a "single person" doing it.

What I am saying is that no-one does it quite like Trump. In Trump world, women are ‘dogs’, immigrants are ‘rapists and murderers’, not to mention his utterly pathetic line in spiteful nicknames. But, should anyone point out Trump’s actual words and behaviour, they are a ‘hater’. It’s absurd beyond description.

 

[Tom 1]

Whether accurate or not? That's quite an assumption, and I doubt such assumptions will be convincing to anyone (who is fair minded) during the impeachment process.

What are you referring to? If you mean the poorly considered actions of Biden’s son, your sources are unreliable.

 

[Aldebaran]

What I am saying is that no-one does it quite like Trump. In Trump world, women are ‘dogs’, immigrants are ‘rapists and murderers’, not to mention his utterly pathetic line in spiteful nicknames. But, should anyone point out Trump’s actual words and behaviour, they are a ‘hater’. It’s absurd beyond description.

You're just repeating lines of propaganda now that have no basis in fact.

 

[Tom 1]

You're just repeating lines of propaganda now that have no basis in fact.

? Are you being serious?

 

[Aldebaran]

What are you referring to? If you mean the poorly considered actions of Biden’s son, your sources are unreliable.

You wrote that just 2 minutes after repeating left-wing propaganda that you're spewing out as being facts. Ironic!

 

[Aldebaran]

? Are you being serious?

Yeah, I am.

 

[Tom 1]

Yeah, I am.

Do you think the video of Trump saying these things are some sort of CGI creation? Women who take offence at sexual assault are:
Fat pigs
Dogs
The Devil

You can ‘grab them by the ... ‘ you can do anything you want.

And so on. I’m not sure why I’m bothering, you can watch all the vids and read the tweets yourself.

 

[Tom 1]

You wrote that just 2 minutes after repeating left-wing propaganda that you're spewing out as being facts. Ironic!

If by facts you mean ‘things that Trump said on video’ then your reference to irony escapes me. If by any of it you mean Trumpist Lala land then irony doesn’t cut it, you guys went way past irony a long time ago.

 

[Aldebaran]

Do you think the video of Trump saying these things are some sort of CGI creation? Women who take offence at sexual assault are:
Fat pigs
Dogs
The Devil

You can ‘grab them by the ... ‘ you can do anything you want.

And so on. I’m not sure why I’m bothering, you can watch all the vids and read the tweets yourself.

You made your claim as if he was talking about women and immigrants in general. If he had actually said that immigrants are rapists and murderers, then he wouldn't be allowing any of them into the country. The border would be closed.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The investigation isn't even finished, so you can't conclude that.

Certainly we can. The claims were deemed urgent and credible by the IC inspector general.