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Roy Moore compared to Mary and Joseph

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by Golfing Gator, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Lik3

    Lik3 Newbie

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    I totally agree. There is a world of difference between a grown Westerner and a 14 year old girl he is accused of having sex with. The truth is, that is just justification of a crime that has been or probably has been committed. He should have been tried in the court of law, or at least made to step down. Anyways, the issue is Jewish culture is way different than ours. In Jewish culture, a bat mitzvah and bar mitzvah are both rites of passage to adulthood for those who are 12-13 year old girls and 12-13 year old boys. So a 14-17 year old girl in Jewish culture was considered an adult as Mary was. I really have no clue how old Joseph was, so he could have been 20, 30, or even 40. It is quite strange to us as Westerners because we see 14 year olds as kids still and also because many see underage girls being brides to older men in other parts of the Old World. By the way, wasn't Elizabeth way older than Mary?
     
  2. Christie insb

    Christie insb Well-Known Member

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    Bat mitzvahs are from the Conservative branch of Judaism. I think they may have started after World War 2, and none of the older Jewish women I know ever had the opportunity to be bat mitzvahed. That was not part of Jewish culture in Mary's day.
     
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  3. Lik3

    Lik3 Newbie

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    I stand corrected. Thank you. Was Mary really 14 years old when she gave birth to Jesus?
     
  4. Christie insb

    Christie insb Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't say.
     
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  5. Christie insb

    Christie insb Well-Known Member

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    I have heard that girls used to go through puberty later because there wasn't artificial light to the extent that we have it, so if that is true she could have been older.
     
  6. jgarden

    jgarden Senior Veteran

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    Mary's age is largely irrelevant - and it was the Holy Spirit, not Joseph, who was the biological father!

    Unless Roy Moore claims to be the modern reincarnation of the Holy Spirit, he had no business, as an Assistant District Attorney in his 30's, intruding into the lives of vulnerable teenage girls!
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  7. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    As for your question, it is hard to answer with certainty, but I know that "Thou shalt not bear false witness" is also a Christian commandment.

    It's interesting, isn't it, how that fact never gets mentioned in discussions like this one?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
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  8. jgarden

    jgarden Senior Veteran

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    Bearing "false witness" never prevented Trump from promoting his "birther" agenda for 8 years, attempting to undermine the legitimacy of the nation's first Afro-America President!

    "The Donald" was at least a private citizen when he championed the "birther" movement, but Judge Roy Moore was serving in his official capacity as the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court when he was openly questioning Barack Obama's country of birth.

    I don't remember conservative Christians taking a stand against these unsubstantiated claims of the "birthers" - in fact, many were actively engaged in spreading this falsehood!
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
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  9. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    The subject here is Roy Moore, not Donald Trump or someone else. But "nice try" to you, I suppose.
     
  10. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Innocent until proven guilty is the standard for a criminal trial, not for political campaigns.
     
  11. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    We've all been treated to that line before. But the reason that 'innocent until proven guilty' was enshrined in our nation's founding legal system was because it had already been recognized in our culture as an essential human right, just as the right to peacefully assemble and to freely worship were.
     
  12. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    But it has not applied to political campaigns. As far back as the Adams-Jefferson race of 1800 things got very dirty. "Jefferson's camp accused President Adams of having a "hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman." In return, Adams' men called Vice President Jefferson "a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father." As the slurs piled on, Adams was labeled a fool, a hypocrite, a criminal, and a tyrant, while Jefferson was branded a weakling, an atheist, a libertine, and a coward." Adams vs. Jefferson: The Birth of Negative Campaigning in the U.S.. In the 1884 election Grover Cleveland was accused of fathering a child out of wedlock--"Ma, Ma, where's my Pa, Gone to the White House, ha, ha, ha." In return James Blaine was attacked with "Blaine, Blaine, James G. Blaine, the Continental Liar from the State of Maine." Unless you count the election of George Washington, innocent until proven guilty has never been the rule in elections.
     
  13. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Agree, regardless of political POV, wrong doing is not good for Christians to support, advocate, etc....including unproven accusations.

    Also, the people "entitled" to vote, choose, pick, support, advocate, ie do so on their own known information, and is simply what they have to live with.

    Yes, we are given an expectation that government officials will be held to a higher standard while representing the People's Office, but then it is a well known fact, a very low standard of the general population is promoted and accepted, and it is from the very general population that representatives are selected. A conundrum!

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  14. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Ah, so there is only one accusation of statutory rape, not two. Well, that sure makes everything better.
     
  15. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Biological? genetically related; related by blood: ?

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  16. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    But all you are saying here is that the cold and cruel realities of life show that people are not always fair. That's not an argument in favor of being unfair!
     
  17. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Heck, that was just, like, when I was a teen that girls went through puberty later. Just since the 90s, schools have had to start installing sanitary napkin dispensers in the girls restrooms in elementary schools.

    It's not artificial light. I'm convinced there has been a chemical change in food and water--because there are lots of other negative things that have happened in the American physique since the 70s.
     
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  18. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    There was NO accusation of statuatory rape, but just look at how casually Liberals have morphed what actually was said into something else. Yet we are supposed to believe every accuser in the first place, with no confirmations at all? I am sure that you wouldn't for a moment believe such flimsy and unsupported claims if we were talking about something else.
     
  19. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    These next few years will be, I think, God's winnowing of Christians in America for His use.

    But the LORD said to Gideon, "There are still too many men. Take them down to the water, and I will thin them out for you there. If I say, 'This one shall go with you,' he shall go; but if I say, 'This one shall not go with you,' he shall not go."

    So Gideon took the men down to the water. There the LORD told him, "Separate those who lap the water with their tongues as a dog laps from those who kneel down to drink."

    Three hundred of them drank from cupped hands, lapping like dogs. All the rest got down on their knees to drink.

    The LORD said to Gideon, "With the three hundred men that lapped I will save you and give the Midianites into your hands. Let all the others go home."
    -- Judges 7

    Most of the army knelt completely down and put their faces into the water. Only three hundred merely dipped their hands into the water, keeping their heads up and their eyes raised to see clearly what was happening around them.

    A few Christians in America have merely dipped their hands into the stream of America, kept their faces up, eyes raised, and ready to step away. Most have knelt completely down and put their faces into the water.

    These next few years will tell the tale, and God will separate out those who are fit for His purpose, those whose eyes are raised and are ready to step away.
     
  20. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    But we aren’t discussing being fair or unfair, we are discussing whether innocent until proven guilty applies in elections. It does not.
     
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