Ronald Reagan has a message for those that think Putin vs Ukraine is only about spheres of influence

[Halbhh]

Ronald Reagan:

 

[Halbhh]

Also the Orthodox Patriarch

Orthodox patriarch denounces 'atrocious invasion' of Ukraine
The spiritual leader of the world’s Orthodox Christians has denounced Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as an “atrocious" act that is causing enormous suffering
Orthodox patriarch denounces 'atrocious invasion' of Ukraine

“It is simply impossible to imagine how much devastation this atrocious invasion has caused for the Ukrainian people and the entire world,” Bartholomew said at a news briefing. He added that solidarity with Ukrainians “is the only thing that can overcome evil and darkness in the world.”

Bartholomew also met with Archbishop Stanisław Gądecki, the head of the Polish Bishops' Conference, who went even further in his denunciation of Russian actions, which he said bore “the hallmarks of genocide." Unlike Bartholomew, Gądecki mentioned Russia by name.

Gądecki said Russia's invasion has resulted in the deaths of “thousands of innocent people" including “hundreds of children, elderly people, women, and men who had nothing to do with the hostilities."

 

[FireDragon76]

Also the Orthodox Patriarch

Orthodox patriarch denounces 'atrocious invasion' of Ukraine
The spiritual leader of the world’s Orthodox Christians has denounced Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as an “atrocious" act that is causing enormous suffering
Orthodox patriarch denounces 'atrocious invasion' of Ukraine

“It is simply impossible to imagine how much devastation this atrocious invasion has caused for the Ukrainian people and the entire world,” Bartholomew said at a news briefing. He added that solidarity with Ukrainians “is the only thing that can overcome evil and darkness in the world.”

Bartholomew also met with Archbishop Stanisław Gądecki, the head of the Polish Bishops' Conference, who went even further in his denunciation of Russian actions, which he said bore “the hallmarks of genocide." Unlike Bartholomew, Gądecki mentioned Russia by name.

Gądecki said Russia's invasion has resulted in the deaths of “thousands of innocent people" including “hundreds of children, elderly people, women, and men who had nothing to do with the hostilities."

Patriarch Bartholomew is not the "spiritual head" of Orthodoxy, anymore than the Archbishop of Canterburry is the "spiritual head" of Episcopalians. It's not like Orthodox themselves pay alot of attention to what he has to say. He's just a placeholder in the hierarchy, not its beating heart.

 

[Halbhh]

Patriarch Bartholomew is not the "spiritual head" of Orthodoxy, anymore than the Archbishop of Canterburry is the "spiritual head" of Episcopalians. It's not like Orthodox themselves pay alot of attention to what he has to say. He's just a placeholder in the hierarchy, not its beating heart.

What is the beating heart in your view? While I'll look of course for the Orthodox view, it's interesting to hear other's ideas.

 

[FireDragon76]

What is the beating heart in your view? While I'll look of course for the Orthodox view, it's interesting to hear other's ideas.

Orthodox, like other Christians, have the person of Jesus at the center of their religion.

 

[Halbhh]

It's not like Orthodox themselves pay alot of attention to what he has to say.

Around the world I think that'd be correct usually (though with this war and his prominent speaking about it, he gets a spotlight), but I wonder how it is inside Russia, what portion of Russians believe him correct.

 

[FireDragon76]

Around the world I think that'd be correct usually (though with this war and his prominent speaking about it, he gets a spotlight), but I wonder how it is inside Russia, what portion of Russians believe him correct.

Most pay alot more attention to the patriarch of Moscow. The Ecumenical Patriarch is regarded by some Orthodox (especially Russian Orthodox) as essentially being in captivity or compromised, sort of like Sedevacantism in Catholicism.

The Ecunemical Patriachate has a colorful history, often enmeshed in intrigue (the Patriarchate even gave out something like indulgences at one time, and there was one that might have even been a crypto-Protestant), and sometimes working on behalf of the Ottomans' interests. So as you can see, it's not regarded by some Orthodox as a bastion of orthodoxy.

Either way, from the Russian nationalist perspective, the EP doesn't matter because Moscow is "the Third Rome". It is seen by them as the true manifestation of Christendom owing to the Ecumenical Patriarch essentially becoming a bishop without a real jurisdiction (of course, in modern times he does have one but it's very small, since Constantinople is now predominantly Muslim, not Orthodox).

 

[Halbhh]

Most pay alot more attention to the patriarch of Moscow. The Ecumenical Patriarch is regarded by some Orthodox (especially Russian Orthodox) as essentially being in captivity or compromised, sort of like Sedevacantism in Catholicism.

The Ecunemical Patriachate has a colorful history, often enmeshed in intrigue (the Patriarchate even gave out something like indulgences at one time, and there was one that might have even been a crypto-Protestant), and sometimes working on behalf of the Ottomans' interests. So as you can see, it's not regarded by some Orthodox as a bastion of orthodoxy.

Either way, from the Russian nationalist perspective, the EP doesn't matter because Moscow is "the Third Rome". It is seen by them as the true manifestation of Christendom owing to the Ecumenical Patriarch essentially becoming a bishop without a real jurisdiction (of course, in modern times he does have one but it's very small, since Constantinople is now predominantly Muslim, not Orthodox).

It was Kirill I was referring to.
Usually, like before 2022, Kirill will certainly be heard inside Russia much more than outside.

But... Consider: I don't even know much my own local bishop has said....

So, I'm wondering how many Russians would really listen to Kirill even now, in this war, in March 2022 even.... Is it more like 1%, 5%? 15%? That's the interesting question. Now, here, in the U.S., when a bishop or lead bishop speaks actually in our church, like once in 10 years, we simply all (every last person) merely evaluate what be said, each person pointing out what the bishop got right or wrong.

 

[Halbhh]

Most pay alot more attention to the patriarch of Moscow. The Ecumenical Patriarch is regarded by some Orthodox (especially Russian Orthodox) as essentially being in captivity or compromised, sort of like Sedevacantism in Catholicism.

The Ecunemical Patriachate has a colorful history, often enmeshed in intrigue (the Patriarchate even gave out something like indulgences at one time, and there was one that might have even been a crypto-Protestant), and sometimes working on behalf of the Ottomans' interests. So as you can see, it's not regarded by some Orthodox as a bastion of orthodoxy.

Either way, from the Russian nationalist perspective, the EP doesn't matter because Moscow is "the Third Rome". It is seen by them as the true manifestation of Christendom owing to the Ecumenical Patriarch essentially becoming a bishop without a real jurisdiction (of course, in modern times he does have one but it's very small, since Constantinople is now predominantly Muslim, not Orthodox).

Just some recent news background info, just in case you might not have seen.

Several national ROC churches outside of Russia have officially broken away (not just a couple), and consider that official breaking away is the last step. Not the first.
Also, there is plenty of opposition inside Russia:https://www.washingtonpost.com/reli...ia-denounce-invasion-ukraine-their-own-peril/

So, as you can logically see, that means that Bartholomew in Greece now (regardless of other situations back in other times...) is going to be more influential now.

 

[FireDragon76]

It was Kirill I was referring to.
Usually, like before 2022, Kirill will certainly be heard inside Russia much more than outside.

But... Consider: I don't even know much my own local bishop has said....

So, I'm wondering how many Russians would really listen to Kirill even now, in this war, in March 2022 even.... Is it more like 1%, 5%? 15%? That's the interesting question. Now, here, in the U.S., when a bishop or lead bishop speaks actually in our church, like once in 10 years, we simply all (every last person) merely evaluate what be said, each person pointing out what the bishop got right or wrong.

Lutheran bishops and Orthodox bishops are very different in terms of their expected functions. Orthodox bishops visit churches alot more often, and preside over smaller geographic areas typically