Romans VII Contrast

WordSword

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Sorry, suppose to be VIII, thanks.

The Eighth Chapter of Romans describes the identification of the two types of humanity: those who walk “after the flesh”; and those who walk “after the Spirit” (v 1). I think this discussion should begin with what Paul may have intended to mean by “walk after.” One might interpret this to relate to how one lives and another, how one desires to live, that is, we can seek to live according to the Spirit of God, but desire and do are not the same because the former leads to the latter.

Initially all reborn (since the days of the Apostles) are at the “babe in Christ” (1Cor 3:1) point of maturity and begin to grow into “Christ’s image” by manifesting the desire for “the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby” (1Pe 2:2). Though the primary objective of redemption in the Lord Jesus is fully complete (salvation does not admit in degrees) at rebirth, “growing up into Him in all things” (Eph 4:15) is God’s work of “conformation” (Rom 8:29; 2Co 3:18) for the remnant of our earthly lives.

One who is reborn will soon become aware of an ominous presence “to will and to do of His good pleasure” (Phl 2:13). Scripture teaches the reality of this presence (new nature or new man) is genuine in the fact that this overwhelming desire to please God, though repeatedly interrupted within believers, ever remains with them (Mat 24:13; Heb 10:38). Therefore, from rebirth to our rest or rapture, believers are continually manifesting by their lives a walk and desire after the Spirit.

Those who are unregenerate cannot “walk after the Spirit,” nor can those regenerated “walk after the flesh.” The intention of the word “walk” is in reference to that which one seeks above all things. Though there will be times of sin in the lives of the believers due to their indwelling of old man, their overall desire is to please God. This defines walking after the Spirit, which will be manifested in the lifestyles of the saints.

The Lord Jesus proclaimed that “a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit” (Luke 6:43). He also indicated “Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt (Mat 12:33). James reiterated this when he wrote that “Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter . . . . So can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh (3:11, 12).

Seeking to live according to the sin nature (flesh) reveals domination of the old man and therefore manifests one who has not been redeemed. Being free from the “reign” and dominion” of sin (Rom 6:12, 14) to me means the old man can no longer cause the believer to "sin willfully" (Heb 10:26), or intentionally “serve sin” (Rom 7:25).

The will and desire of the saints to please God supersedes the desires of the old man in them, for God considers them being after the Spirit, as they “are not after the flesh” (Rom 8:9). No believer can live after the flesh and after the Spirit.

I think most of the confusion here lies with the deceptiveness of imitation. One can appear to be after the Spirit, but cannot continue to do so permanently if not reborn! As it is known, “Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light,” and that which false professors do will eventually be made manifest “according to their works” (2Co 11:14, 15).

If those reborn can “be carnally minded,” they abide in “death,” which not only conflicts with “to be spiritually minded is life” (8:6, 13), but also with the Lord’s declaration of “whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die” (Jhn 11:26).




 
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fhansen

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Sorry, suppose to be VIII, thanks.

The Eighth Chapter of Romans describes the identification of the two types of humanity: those who walk “after the flesh”; and those who walk “after the Spirit” (v 1). I think this discussion should begin with what Paul may have intended to mean by “walk after.” One might interpret this to relate to how one lives and another, how one desires to live, that is, we can seek to live according to the Spirit of God, but desire and do are not the same because the former leads to the latter.

Initially all reborn (since the days of the Apostles) are at the “babe in Christ” (1Cor 3:1) point of maturity and begin to grow into “Christ’s image” by manifesting the desire for “the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby” (1Pe 2:2). Though the primary objective of redemption in the Lord Jesus is fully complete (salvation does not admit in degrees) at rebirth, “growing up into Him in all things” (Eph 4:15) is God’s work of “conformation” (Rom 8:29; 2Co 3:18) for the remnant of our earthly lives.

One who is reborn will soon become aware of an ominous presence “to will and to do of His good pleasure” (Phl 2:13). Scripture teaches the reality of this presence (new nature or new man) is genuine in the fact that this overwhelming desire to please God, though repeatedly interrupted within believers, ever remains with them (Mat 24:13; Heb 10:38). Therefore, from rebirth to our rest or rapture, believers are continually manifesting by their lives a walk and desire after the Spirit.

Those who are unregenerate cannot “walk after the Spirit,” nor can those regenerated “walk after the flesh.” The intention of the word “walk” is in reference to that which one seeks above all things. Though there will be times of sin in the lives of the believers due to their indwelling of old man, their overall desire is to please God. This defines walking after the Spirit, which will be manifested in the lifestyles of the saints.

The Lord Jesus proclaimed that “a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit” (Luke 6:43). He also indicated “Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt (Mat 12:33). James reiterated this when he wrote that “Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter . . . . So can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh (3:11, 12).

Seeking to live according to the sin nature (flesh) reveals domination of the old man and therefore manifests one who has not been redeemed. Being free from the “reign” and dominion” of sin (Rom 6:12, 14) to me means the old man can no longer cause the believer to "sin willfully" (Heb 10:26), or intentionally “serve sin” (Rom 7:25).

The will and desire of the saints to please God supersedes the desires of the old man in them, for God considers them being after the Spirit, as they “are not after the flesh” (Rom 8:9). No believer can live after the flesh and after the Spirit.

I think most of the confusion here lies with the deceptiveness of imitation. One can appear to be after the Spirit, but cannot continue to do so permanently if not reborn! As it is known, “Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light,” and that which false professors do will eventually be made manifest “according to their works” (2Co 11:14, 15).

If those reborn can “be carnally minded,” they abide in “death,” which not only conflicts with “to be spiritually minded is life” (8:6, 13), but also with the Lord’s declaration of “whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die” (Jhn 11:26).
The "cold, hard, fact" is that we'll all struggle with sin throughout our lives and sometimes we'll fail, in overt or subtle ways. And it's a good struggle as we learn more and more how to let God have the reigns, or cooperate with Him in controlling them. We'd like it all to be black and white but in truth we don't know with 100% certainty who are saved and who are not, who will persevere and who will not; it's not over til it's over.

And this is why Scripture continuously warns, admonishes, and encourages believers and would-be believers to walk in the Spirit, remain in Christ, remain faithful, invest ones talents, be vigilant, strive, persevere, fight the good fight, feed the hungry and clothe the naked, let their light shine, keep oil in their lamps, refrain from sin, be holy, etc, etc. etc.
 
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WordSword

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The cold, hard, fact is that we'll all struggle with sin throughout our lives and sometimes we'll fail
Hi, and appreciate your reply and comments, which with I agree. I don't see Romans 8 mixing the lifestyles of the saved and unsaved, for example, it comes down to those who are "carnal minded" (living after the old nature) and those who are "spiritually minded" (living after the Spirit via the new nature), and neither type will ever do otherwise, assuming the carnal minded remain so.

I also think it's worth noting that "canal minded" (means death) and being "carnal" (means "babe in Christ" - 1Co 3:1-3) are not the same intention. As long as we're here we will be in some degree carnal, due to the indwelling old nature, but this is dealt with by God as He continues to mature us in Christ.

And it's a good struggle as we learn more and more how to let God have the reigns, or cooperate with Him in controlling them.
My agreement is the greatest here, because all that saints encounter (esp. ongoing sin) is for, as you've indicated, learning more of God's ways and desires, and therefore are never again guilty before God (which is great peace), but rather ever drawing closer to Him in everything.

And this is why Scripture continuously warns, admonishes, and encourages believers and would-be believers to walk in the Spirit, remain in Christ, etc.
It's my understanding that God does not need to warn His own, but rather encourages through admonishing that does not involve warnings but by identifying the lifestyles of one regenerate (reborn) and one who is unregenerate. Similar to God manifesting His love for His own through trials and difficulties, and the same is in judgment towards those He knows will never choose to believe.

Hope I wasn't too long-winded with this reply, and God's blessings to your Family!
 
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