Romans 9 and Salvation

bling

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The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Cor 2:14

To me the aforementioned is prior to salvation, because it says the person without the Spirit. If they were believers, they would have the Spirit, would they not?
Yes, people without the Spirit do not discern Spiritual things, but that is not what they need to just humbly accept charity which will allow God to do the rest. Like the prodigal son all they need is to come to their senses (this will eventually happen to every nonbeliever as they spiral down through life) and at that point just be willing to accept their enemy's help (pure charity) for purely selfish reasons.
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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Yes, people without the Spirit do not discern Spiritual things, but that is not what they need to just humbly accept charity which will allow God to do the rest. Like the prodigal son all they need is to come to their senses (this will eventually happen to every nonbeliever as they spiral down through life) and at that point just be willing to accept their enemy's help (pure charity) for purely selfish reasons.


So if people without the Spirit do not discern Spiritual things, how do they get saved?
 
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PrettyboyAndy

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The invitation goes out to everyone and those that were drawn by that invitation come, so all that come were drawn. Those that refuse the invitation did not want to hear it, but did physically hear it.

No one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws them.

I don't see an invitation call to everyone, I see a selective calling.
 
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bling

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So if people without the Spirit do not discern Spiritual things, how do they get saved?

When you come to your senses in a similar situation to the prodigal son (fining himself in the pigsty of life feeding pigs and starving to death) you do not need the Spirit to tell you: “Get out of here”. It is not a spiritual thing, but a very strong earthly desire (survival instinct). God your Father possible has enough Love to somehow overlook your war crimes against Him, even though you fully deserve a torturous death with your surrendering.

Just as the prodigal son did nothing “worthy” of anything, he like us just have to be willing, wanting to turn to our Father for help and willing to accept His charity.
 
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bling

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No one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws them.

I don't see an invitation call to everyone, I see a selective calling.

Matt. 22:1-14 The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. … 8…The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.

Luke 14: 23 “Then the master told his servant, ‘Go out to the roads and country lanes and compel them to come in, so that my house will be full. 24 I tell you, not one of those who were invited will get a taste of my banquet.’”

Did the Master or King draw everyone to the banquet with His invitation and with what He was offering to them?

There were some that did not go, but it was not because they were not “drawn” by the invitation and what was being offered.
 
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DingDing

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No one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws them.

I don't see an invitation call to everyone, I see a selective calling.

Hi, I'm kind of skimming through quickly, and I don't even see how the two statements above are even related (like how does the 2nd follow from the 1st). In the first statement (John 6:44) Jesus is describing the true source of His "attractiveness". Those who seek the Father in truth are drawn to Jesus because they see the Father in Him. The 2nd statement just does not follow from the first. Jesus is not saying that only select persons are called, He is saying that those that are drawn to Him (Jesus) are actually being drawn by the Father who is working through Him. PbA, you have made a very big (and unwarranted) leap to get your 2nd statement out of John 6:44.
 
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DingDing

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I feel like a mod needs to clean this thread up since most of the thread's posts have nothing to do with the exegesis of Romans 9.

Hi, the real problem is that Romans 9 is not some kind of stand-alone passage which can be interpreted apart from the rest of scripture. Sure, if someone wants to put on blinders, they can isolate and likely misinterpret any passage they want. So, there is actually much that needs to be discussed before looking at Romans 9 - at least for starters everything that Paul wrote including the whole of the Book of Romans. Romans 9 has a context it fits into.
 
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