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Romans 8: The Context of Romans 9

Discussion in 'Christian Scriptures' started by Humble_Disciple, Jul 29, 2021.

  1. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

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  2. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    As well as:

    Romans 9:1-3 where Paul grieves over the loss of salvation for ubelieving Israel.
    Romans 9:14-16, Romans 9:18 were Paul is defending God's sovereignty in both mercy and hardening to salvation.
    Romans 9:27 where the promise is salvation.
    Romans 9:30-32 where only the righteousness that is by faith saves.
     
  3. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    God chose Jacob for a task, not for salvation.
    • The objects of wrath, God's people, were not prepared for destruction because God damned them from birth but because they constantly disobeyed him. And why would he have to be patient with people he picked for damnation, anyway? And right there in the text it tells us we are capable of talking back to God. And it tells us why most Jews were not saved, because they didn't pursue God by faith. What? We can pursue God? Not according to Calvinism!
    • I don't understand why people complicate Romans 9. It's not about God picking individuals for his baseball team. It's about him using even Israel's disobedience to spread the gospel to the world.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2021
  4. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    It's about God's absolute sovereignty, based on nothing but his personal choice (demonstrated in his election of Jacob, and not Esau--Romans 9:11-13), on whom to have mercy and whom to harden. (Romans 9:18)
     
  5. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Again, Jacob was not chosen for salvation. And Esau apparently died a righteous man.
     
  6. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Agreed, he is a demonstration of God's sovereign right to choose as he pleases, based on nothing but his choice. . .which sovereign right to choose as he pleases, Paul demonstrates is operating in God's choice to salvation of some in Israel (a remnant), but not all.
     
  7. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    God has a right to choose but nothing in Romans 9 indicates that he chooses individuals for salvation.
    In fact it explains why most of Israel were not saved...., because they didn't have faith.
     
  8. Humble_Disciple

    Humble_Disciple Well-Known Member

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    Based on reading the Bible, after praying for the guidance of the Holy Spirit, I am no longer a Calvinist:

    Jeremiah 18: Romans 9 De-Calvinized

    John Calvin: Not a Calvinist

    My intent on this forum has not been to convince others that Calvinism is true, but only that they should be more tolerant of Calvinists, especially since some of history's greatest missionaries and evangelists have been Calvinists.
     
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