LDS Romans 8:9, Adam's Sin, and Moroni 7:16

[Rescued One]

Romans 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 5
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Mormons agree with us that Adam and Eve didn't know good from evil.
Genesis 3
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Moroni 7:16
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

Did Adam and Eve have the Spirit of Christ? Or were they not His? Did their sin bring about the Spirit of Christ being given to everyone? Does everyone now belong to Christ?

 

[Neogaia777]

Romans 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 5
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Mormons agree with us that Adam and Eve didn't know good from evil.
Genesis 3
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Moroni 7:16
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

Did Adam and Eve have the Spirit of Christ? Or were they not His? Did their sin bring about the Spirit of Christ being given to everyone? Does everyone now belong to Christ?

They tried to take the next logical step in evolution in religious, philsophcial and spiritual beliefs, but how do we not know it's them that did all by themselves without or with God, or that they were lying, the serpent also promised that we would arrive at truly being able to know good from evil, and not die, but I don't know if that is biblical...?

God Bless!

 

[Emli]

Romans 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 5
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Mormons agree with us that Adam and Eve didn't know good from evil.
Genesis 3
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Moroni 7:16
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

Did Adam and Eve have the Spirit of Christ? Or were they not His? Did their sin bring about the Spirit of Christ being given to everyone? Does everyone now belong to Christ?

From what I gather when I read Genesis, it's not so much that Adam and Eve couldn't tell good from evil, but that they didn't know evil at all. Meaning, they could not sin yet, because sin wasn't in them. Before the fall, they only knew good, and afterwards they also knew evil.
Sin is basically going against God's will, and before the serpent tricked them, they were following God's will perfectly. Then they broke the only rule that God had set up for them.

This can also be read symbolically and philosophically in so many ways, but the outcome is still the same. If we don't know how to sin, then we cannot sin. Today we live in a fallen world, where we sin by default from birth, going our own way, unless God opens our eyes to righteousness.

Their sin brought sin to all humans. Christ, after He was resurrected, brings righteousness to all who believe in Him. And through Christian morals He has brought some righteousness to non-believers as well, but that isn't what the Bible talks about. Not everyone is saved and in Christ, but only His believers. John 3:16

 

[Rescued One]

These questions are for Mormons:
Did Adam and Eve have the Spirit of Christ? Or were they not His? Did their sin bring about the Spirit of Christ being given to everyone? Does everyone now belong to Christ?

 

[Super14LDS]

Seem pretty simple really.

They were given the spirit aka the Light of Christ aka Conscience to discern the difference. Much like you were given the ability to see colors. But say you only ever saw black and white movies, whould you have a true appreciation of a golden sunset or a double-rainbow?

 

[withwonderingawe]

Romans 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 5
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Mormons agree with us that Adam and Eve didn't know good from evil.
Genesis 3
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Moroni 7:16
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

Did Adam and Eve have the Spirit of Christ? Or were they not His? Did their sin bring about the Spirit of Christ being given to everyone? Does everyone now belong to Christ?

Super is right, we define Spirit of Christ or light of Christ which all men have as a person's conscience. Did Adam have a conscience which told him right from wrong?

In Mormonism there are two ways to think of it, first they were as little children who had never experienced pain or evil so they could not know. The Lord was saying 'hot don't touch!' but knew full well they would have to partake at some point to become as He is. If we did not then his plan could not move forward. After partaking of the fruit the light of Christ would be given them.

The other way is that they knew perfectly well what they were doing and Eve saw that wisdom was necessary to bring about God's plan to make us in his image. Partaking of the fruit brought on mortality, hormones turned on and the desire to sin began.

I read an article once where they did a study watching six month old babies and they seem to distinctively knew when something wasn't fair or morally right.

 

[Rescued One]

Super is right, we define Spirit of Christ or light of Christ which all men have as a person's conscience. Did Adam have a conscience which told him right from wrong?

In Mormonism there are two ways to think of it, first they were as little children who had never experienced pain or evil so they could not know. The Lord was saying 'hot don't touch!' but knew full well they would have to partake at some point to become as He is. If we did not then his plan could not move forward. After partaking of the fruit the light of Christ would be given them.

The other way is that they knew perfectly well what they were doing and Eve saw that wisdom was necessary to bring about God's plan to make us in his image. Partaking of the fruit brought on mortality, hormones turned on and the desire to sin began.

I read an article once where they did a study watching six month old babies and they seem to distinctively knew when something wasn't fair or morally right.

Sin is to disobey God. There is nothing in the Bible that says Adam and Eve had no hormones, nor does that anything to do with disobeying God. We aren't talking about fruit creating a desire to sin. Adam sinned by disobeying God.

Babies don't know right from wrong. The person caring for them teaches them. They don't know it's wrong to bite someone. They don't know it's wrong to touch a hot stove or eat medicine that someone left out. They don't understand the concept of sharing toys.

Did Adam have the Spirit of Christ? You ignored the question.

 

[Rescued One]

Seem pretty simple really.

They were given the spirit aka the Light of Christ aka Conscience to discern the difference. Much like you were given the ability to see colors. But say you only ever saw black and white movies, whould you have a true appreciation of a golden sunset or a double-rainbow?

You gave a poor answer to the question. If Adam had the Spirit of Christ which Mormons say teaches right from wrong, he knew he chose to sin against God.

 

[Super14LDS]

You gave a poor answer to the question. If Adam had the Spirit of Christ which Mormons say teaches right from wrong, he knew he chose to sin against God.

Would you know the difference between red and green having only ever seen black and white images?

 

[Rescued One]

Would you know the difference between red and green having only ever seen black and white images?

A person knows what God wants him to know. Stories about colors has nothing to do with it.

Moroni 7
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

You just don't believe Moroni 7:16. If you did, you'd stop beating around the bush.

 

[fatboys]

Sin is to disobey God. There is nothing in the Bible that says Adam and Eve had no hormones, nor does that anything to do with disobeying God. We aren't talking about fruit creating a desire to sin. Adam sinned by disobeying God.

Babies don't know right from wrong. The person caring for them teaches them. They don't know it's wrong to bite someone. They don't know it's wrong to touch a hot stove or eat medicine that someone left out. They don't understand the concept of sharing toys.

Did Adam have the Spirit of Christ? You ignored the question.

Here we go again. In order for a person to sin they not only have to be given the law but understand the law both in blessings recieve from obedience and consequences for disobedience. God told Adam not to partake of the fruit of the tree or they would die. Since they had not experienced death in any way shape or form the consequence meant nothing to them. They had no fear of death. Second is the fact they didn't know good from evil so when Satan tempted them they didn't know if he was telling the truth. They were innocent. Not stupid. So did they sin? Did they disobey? I say they didn't sin because they didn't understand the law given to them. They did however disobey the law. In other words they transgressed the law not knowing fully the law. The consequences for disobedience is the same as if they understood the law fully. Example. If you tell a toddler don't touch the hot stove or you will get burned they will never understand what burn is unless they touch the hot stove. So the toddler goes up and touches the hot stove. Consequences is the same whether they knew and understood the law or if they didn't. All transgression is disobedience but not all transgression is a sin.
So here we have a perfect God who can not make anything imperfect. Yet we have Satan whom God created and is not perfect. We have one third of the host of heaven which God created that is not perfect. Then God created a perfect earth that grew perfect plants and animals. Then he created perfect Adam and Eve. After the big mess with the angels gods plan was to created a perfect world and perfect creations that would worship him. God messed up again. Why? Is God imperfect or perfect. Can a perfect God create imperfection? If God creates imperfection can he still be perfect and therefore remain God? If God knows the past present and future did he know his creations were going to end up imperfect? Why couldn't God destroyed the imperfection and start over? Why did God allow evil?

 

[withwonderingawe]

Would you know the difference between red and green having only ever seen black and white images?

 

[Rescued One]

...
So here we have a perfect God who can not make anything imperfect. Yet we have Satan whom God created and is not perfect.

God can make one vessel for special use and another for common use. God made Satan perfect, but Satan chose to be evil.

Romans 9
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Satan was perfect when he was created. Read Ezekiel 28:11-19 and compare that to a perfect being who then sins.

"Moreover the word of the LORD came to me: Mortal, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord GOD: You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, carnelian, chrysolite, and moonstone, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald; and worked in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. With an anointed cherub as guardian I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked among the stones of fire. You were blameless in your ways from the day that you were created, until iniquity was found in you. In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and the guardian cherub drove you out from among the stones of fire. Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I exposed you before kings, to feast their eyes on you. By the multitude of your iniquities, in the unrighteousness of your trade, you profaned your sanctuaries. So I brought out fire from within you; it consumed you, and I turned you to ashes on the earth in the sight of all who saw you. All who know you among the peoples are appalled at you; you have come to a dreadful end and shall be no more forever" (Ezekiel 28:11-19).

...
We have one third of the host of heaven which God created that is not perfect. Then God created a perfect earth that grew perfect plants and animals. Then he created perfect Adam and Eve. After the big mess with the angels gods plan was to created a perfect world and perfect creations that would worship him. God messed up again. Why? Is God imperfect or perfect. Can a perfect God create imperfection? If God creates imperfection can he still be perfect and therefore remain God? If God knows the past present and future did he know his creations were going to end up imperfect? Why couldn't God destroyed the imperfection and start over? Why did God allow evil?

Neither you nor anyone else can take anything from God's perfection. Just because you don't understand God's purposes, doesn't mean you are right and God is wrong. You are wrong for thinking you can find fault with God. God NEVER "messes up." --- And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.

Why wouldn't God destroy the wicked and start over? He did. But He knew that people would sin and need a Savior.

Exodus 33
19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

"We want to look into the truth of God's mercy not merely in an intellectual way, but in a way of faith, from our hearts, in order that the understanding of God's mercy may work in us a godly humility and overwhelming thanks to God for His mercy."
~ Carl Haak

 

[Super14LDS]

All people are born with the capacity to distinguish between right and wrong. This ability, called conscience, is a manifestation of the Light of Christ (see Moroni 7:15–19). ... Conscience | Light of Christ - Peace of Conscience

If Adam was born, then yes; good question.

An even better question is did Adam and/or Eve have belly buttons.

 

[Rescued One]

All people are born with the capacity to distinguish between right and wrong. This ability, called conscience, is a manifestation of the Light of Christ (see Moroni 7:15–19). ... Conscience | Light of Christ - Peace of Conscience

If Adam was born, then yes; good question.

Being born wasn't a requirement.

Moroni 7
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.


So you think every single person is given the Spirit of Christ. That isn't biblical. Did Adam know good from evil before he ate the fruit or did he receive the Spirit of Christ when he ate the fruit?

Deuteronomy 4:9
Only give heed to yourself and keep your soul diligently, so that you do not forget the things which your eyes have seen and they do not depart from your heart all the days of your life; but make them known to your sons and your grandsons.

Exodus 10
2 And that thou mayest tell in the ears of thy son, and of thy son's son, what things I have wrought in Egypt, and my signs which I have done among them; that ye may know how that I am the LORD.

 

[fatboys]

Being born wasn't a requirement.

Moroni 7
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.


So you think every single person is given the Spirit of Christ. That isn't biblical. Did Adam know good from evil before he ate the fruit or did he receive the Spirit of Christ when he ate the fruit?

Deuteronomy 4:9
Only give heed to yourself and keep your soul diligently, so that you do not forget the things which your eyes have seen and they do not depart from your heart all the days of your life; but make them known to your sons and your grandsons.

Exodus 10
2 And that thou mayest tell in the ears of thy son, and of thy son's son, what things I have wrought in Egypt, and my signs which I have done among them; that ye may know how that I am the LORD.

After the fall every person born is given the light of Christ. Adam and Eve did not have the knowledge of Good and Evil. They had not partaken of the fruit. Therefore Adam and Eve did not sin but only transgressed the law.

 

[Rescued One]

After the fall every person born is given the light of Christ. Adam and Eve did not have the knowledge of Good and Evil. They had not partaken of the fruit. Therefore Adam and Eve did not sin but only transgressed the law.

Where does it say that you get the Spirit of Christ by disobedience to God?

 

[fatboys]

Where does it say that you get the Spirit of Christ by disobedience to God?

Did Adam and Eve know good from evil before the fall?

 

[Rescued One]

Did Adam and Eve know good from evil before the fall?

You won't answer the question. Why not?

 

[Super14LDS]

You won't answer the question. Why not?

What do you think is the right answer, and why?