Romans 7

Cliff2

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7:1 Know ye not, brethren, for I speak to them that know the law, how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

7:7 What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:18 For I know that in me that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
 

Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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Neither. He's talking about the proper function of the law in the economy of God -- which is to awaken the awareness both of sin and of the individual's helplessness and powerlessness over it.

I've seen some of those Romans 7 = unconverted, Romans 8 = converted arguments and they are all bogus and their fruit, most destructive to true faith. They postulate some unquantifiable notion of "conversion" which does not actually exist: namely, a state of transformation here in this lifetime which can only happen when this mortal has put on immortality and this corruption has put on the incorruptible; a state where the individual will of his own choosing walk in perfect unbroken obedience not just to the spirit (principle) of God's law(s) but the letter as well, and every conceivable nuance of the letter and every stretch of interpretation thereupon including some so ridiculous as to equate the consumption of a cup of coffee or a morsel of cheese with idolatry -- and therefore with fornication or adultery in a so-called "spiritual sense" -- and lastly with worship of the devil himself, through a continuing stretch of metaphoric associations.

The fact of the matter is, Romans 7 & 8 were not written to illustration the process of going from unconverted to converted but to first describe and define the proper place of the law in God's economy and then contrast this with the work of Christ and the Holy Spirit. No further scripture is needed; what is needed is a clean reading of Romans 7 & 8 precisely as it is written without layers, overlays, or prefabricated filters setting the mind up to view it a certain way. Albeit one scripture might aid mightily in this if it be thoroughly digested, and that is Galatians 5:16 (which I call the key to everything):
[bible]Galatians 5:16[/bible]

Shalom.
 
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tall73

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Here is my commentary on it. You can see which view you think I take :)

Romans 7 and 8

Paul undoubtedly changed in his focus from law orientation to Christ orientation. But does this mean he was antinomian? As he would say "by no means!".

Instead Paul was focused on the change that the resurrection brought about in our sinful nature, giving life to our mortal bodies so that we could now live for Christ willingly. At the same time Jesus took away all condemnation. My contention is simply this. The law which condemned Paul, because of his sinful nature, which was external, in tablets of stone, was now in Paul's heart. He was freed from his body of death which was a slave to sin, to serve Christ freely, and was cleansed from past sin so he felt no condemnation.

RO 7:1 Do you not know, brothers--for I am speaking to men who know the law--that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3 So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.

RO 7:4 So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.


v.1-3 Setting the human example of the law's power over a man ceasing after death. The specific application is of the marriage law. The spouse is released after death, and is not an adulterer.

v.4-5 We are no longer wedded to the law but to Christ. Notice that we now belong to Christ. This was key for Paul since in his earlier experience he was completely dedicated to the law, and as for legalistic righteousness was "faultless" according to Philippians. Paul's motivation has radically changed,.as has his understanding of what saved him:

PHP 3:2 Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh. 3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh-- 4 though I myself have reasons for such confidence.
If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless.
PHP 3:7 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Here in Philippians Paul is saying that

a. We are not considered righteous by circumcision, by race, or even by keeping the law. But in fact, by righteousness that comes from Christ.

b. Notice, Paul is merely saying that it is grace that saves us. He is not arguing against the moral law. He is arguing against being saved by anything but Christ. Once you have broken the law in one point, it is IMPOSSIBLE to be saved by the law. So dependence on it for salvation is pointless. We are not under the law for salvation.

So Paul's focus has radically shifted from legalistic righteousness (confidence in the flesh, in who he was and what he did), to Christ's righteousness. He has been married to Christ instead of the law.

RO 7:4 So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.


By participating in the death of Christ (Romans 6) we were freed from the need to perfectly keep the law for salvation–which the sinful nature made impossible. Without Christ we are only able to bear fruit for death. In other words, we can only disobey. And since our righteousness was just on our own, we were lost. But now Jesus forgave us AND made it possible for us to bear fruit to God. We are released from serving for salvation and now server God in a new way, by the SPIRIT (of God). (keep in mind that even in the OT grace was present, looking forward to Jesus as we look back. But the temptation was always there to earn salvation).

Now what is it that really changed here? As we will see more clearly in chapter 8, what changed is that we now serve God by His Spirit making alive our sinful nature so that we can fully obey. We never could before. And we also have forgiveness for the failures in keeping the law. Jesus is our forgiveness and our power.

RO 7:7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

v. 7 Paul realizes that the reader might deduce from the earlier statement that the law is sin, or somehow bad. He makes clear that is not his point at all. In fact, the law informed him of what sin was.

NOTE: Paul uses the word law in different ways at times. He speaks of it as a principle or force, and as particular parts of the OT law. we have to tell by the context which he means in each instance.

In this case it is clear that he is speaking at the least of the ten commandments because he makes particular mention of the coveting command. So it is clear that he is saying the law, including the 10 commandments is not sin.

v. 8-9 Sin came in and used the commandment to produce wrong desires. Why is this if the law is not sin? Because the sinful nature is provoked by the law. It sees what it wants, and goes after it. But is the problem the law? Paul doesn't seem to say so. The problem is SIN and the sinful nature.


sin is dead without the law, because the law points out what God's will is. But sin using the law condemns us. Once Paul was aware of what the law said, he was condemned by his breaking of it. He was UNDER THE PENALTY of the law, because he could never keep it.

v.10-12 the law was intended to bring life, but couldn't. Why not? Because of sin.
It was sin that deceived Paul and put him to death through the law. But Paul affirms that the law is HOLY, RIGHTEOUS AND GOOD. It was used by sin to destroy him. The law only condemns because of sin. So the sinful nature, slave to sin, cannot hope to gain salvation. It needs the forgiveness of Christ. But does this mean that the law is no longer good to follow? No, not at all. The problem was never with the law. But now we follow it not because we are under it for salvation, but because we are forgiven and made alive to God because of Jesus.


RO 7:13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

v. 13 The law is not the cause of our death! Sin needed to be recognized for what it was. Sin has always been the problem, not the law. The commandment was added so that men would see just how destructive sin was. Jesus came to get rid of sin, not the law. He did, however, free us from keeping the law for salvation, because once we had broken it in one point, we could no longer do so.


RO 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.

v. 14-17 Again, a defense of the law. The law is spiritual. But Paul is not. Is the problem with the law, or with Paul? Paul is sold as a slave to SIN. He is powerless to do anything but sin. But he agrees the law is good. So the law is holy, righteous, spiritual, good, not sin, etc. Does it sound as though Paul is against the law? But he is a slave to sin, sold to sin, can't do anything but sin, put to death by sin. What is the problem, the law or Paul? It is Paul. He is a slave to sin.

18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

v. 18 As opposed to the law, which is good, nothing good lives in Paul's sinful nature.

v. 19-20 Paul is perplexed by why he keeps doing what is wrong. He concludes that it is sin living in him. He has no other option but to do wrong.

RO 7:21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?

v. 21 Here we see Paul's alternate use of law. Paul finds the "law" at work, or the principle, the rule etc. that he cannot escape sin. When he wants to do good he can't.

v. 22 Now he clarifies that he delights in God's law in his inner being–he wants to do it. So he is clarifying definitions. But there is a problem. There is yet another "law" or rule in his body, the one that does not let him do God's law. It is warring against God's law in Paul's mind. It is called the law of sin. It is at work in his flesh. So Paul says, who will RESCUE me from this body of death? Paul is in real trouble. He can't keep the law, he is condemned by it because of his sin, he is hopeless, without salvation (in his natural self). But now he sees a new hope.

25 Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!


Jesus is the new hope, as will be seen in chapter 8.

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Paul is bound to serve God's law, but the sinful nature keeps him a slave to the law of sin. But God changes all of this in chapter 8. This is a summary statement of his problem, right before the solution.

RO 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

v. 1 We are free from the condemnation of our sin because of Christ Jesus. He has changed our whole relation to the law. Before we were condemned because we were under it for salvation. We had no righteousness but our own which was flawed.

v.2 Paul introduces yet another law. Let's summarize:

a. God's law, includes "do not covet"
b. law of sin and death – the rule that Paul discovered that he could not obey
c. The law of the Spirit of Life. The Holy Spirit overcomes the sinful nature.

Jesus set us free from the law of sin and death which was at work in our members. Notice, this was NOT parallel to God's law. It was the rule of sin that kept overcoming him.

v. 3 Jesus' sacrifice did what Paul could never do because of the sinful nature. He took care of Paul's sin problem, removed him from condemnation under the law, and gave him no condemnation. In so doing he also condemned sin–not the law–sin. Sin was always the problem. Not the law. Jesus kept the law, in the Spirit, not just in the letter. Thus he condemned sinful man, but also freed him by His sacrifice.

v. 4 It is those who live by the Spirit of God who TRULY KEEP the law. It's requirements are "fully met" in them. Paul is arguing that it is the one who keeps the Law by the Spirit that truly keeps it. He is not arguing that they don't keep it.

The angels in heaven do not keep the law as simply tablets of stone. It is inside them. The same is promised in the new covenant where the law is written on the mind and heart (Hebrews 8). We keep His commands and they "are not BURDENSOME" as John says. The point being, God has freed us from our sin, freed us from keeping the law for salvation, which we couldn't do. And He has also given us new power to keep the law the way it should always have been kept–from the heart. Paul is saying that in Christ the law is now RE-INTERNALIZED as it was always meant to be. Not tablets that condemn, but the Spirit of Christ living in us that empowers.

So it is true, the external tablets are no longer our focus. In fact, the law itself is not our focus. The focus is on Christ who forgives us, lives in us, and who makes our dead sinful nature alive by His Spirit.

Jesus didn't just come to save us from our PAST sin , but to overcome current sin, to fully live for Him.

RO 8:5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.

v. 5 There is a total difference between Paul in his previous life, with his mind fixated on the law's requirements, his faults, the desires of the flesh, and his later life, focused on Christ and His Spirit.

The Christian's mind is transformed to focus on Christ, seated above. To fix itself on heavenly things. The law in internalized, as it was meant to be. No wonder Paul considered his legalistic righteousness as rubbish.

v. 6-8 Those controlled by the sinful nature, depending on themselves for salvation, on their own effort for righteousness CANNOT PLEASE GOD. They cannot submit to God's law.

RO 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

v. 9 Those who have the Spirit though are not in the same condition as those who have the sinful nature. They are forgiven first, but they can also submit to God's law, they do please God.

v.10-11 We still have the sinful nature, but the Spirit of God will "also give life to" our "mortal bodies through His Spirit." In other words, God's Spirit has overcome our sinful nature, allowing us to please God.

We are not only forgiven, we are given new power to please God, not for salvation, but for HIM. It is internalized.

RO 8:12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

v. 12-13 We DO have an obligation to not live according to the sinful nature, but to put to death the misdeeds (sins) of the body. We are still keeping the law, but not in the old way. The focus is not on the law, however, but on Christ who is our forgiveness, and power.

v. 14-17 We have a new outlook, a new Spirit, a new hope. We are no longer condemned by sin and afraid of God. We rejoice that we are sons, who serve out of love.
 
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