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Romans 7 The Contraversy

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by jtc, Jan 29, 2002.

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  1. jtc

    jtc New Member

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    read romans 7 what is the first thing paul says for i speak to them that know th law and in verse 14 he reiterates he is refferring to some one under the law and thats why he says in verse 24 who will save him from this condition. he gives the answer that jesus christ can save him . if he were saying this is his present tense he would be tottally contradicting chapters 6 and 8. read romans 6:1 shall we continue in sin that grace may abound god forbid that is some very strong language. read the whole chapter. we are dead to sin if we did die to ourselves and raised from the dead in christ. read chapter 8 concerning romans 7:14.It says in verses 8:6-14 It says if you are carnal you can not please god and you are his enemy. so is paul contradicting himself because in 7:14 he says he is carnal. no he is not because he started off in verse 1 saying i speak to them that know the law. Gods word never contradicts itself. It is kind of wierd that peter said in 2nd peter 3:15-17 that pauls writing were kind of hard to understand and he said people who were unstable and unlearned would twist them as well as other scriptures to thier own destruction. Take alook at romans 3:4-8 Paul says does our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God. what shall we say is God unrighteous who taketh vengence. God forbid.how shall GOD judge the world. That is what i like to ask all of these church goers. how will god judge the world if every one is a sinner. will he let some go to heaven and some go to hell. when jesus returns he is not going to give us a new nature. we will only get a new body. so if you have not put off that old man like paul talks about and crucified the flesh and killed it and buried it in baptism you will not make it to heaven. romans 6:4-6) once your saved the flesh is dead and you dont live according to flesh but according to the spirit if you have the spirit.if you live after the flesh you will surely die. romans 8:8-13
     
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  2. marmaladePRO

    marmaladePRO Active Member

    835
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    JTC"how will god judge the world if every one is a sinner. will he let some go to heaven and some go to hell. "
    judgement will be made on whether or not you or i (or anyone else for that matter) have chosen Christ Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior through Grace... thats pretty basic for me, don't you think? :)
     
  3. Josiah

    Josiah Super suction ears away!

    312
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    1 Do you not know, brothers--for I am speaking to men who know the law--that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives?

    Paul is speaking to men who KNOW the law AND he IS speaking in present tense about HIS OWN situation presently.

    Listen:
    15 I do not understand what I DO. For what I want to do I DO NOT DO, but what I hate I DO.
    16 And if I DO what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
    17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who DO it, but it is sin living in me.


    This is clearly present tense. Paul says "DO" not "DID".


    Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

    I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

    Paul is not saying that we will cease sinning altogether. If that's the case, you're lost too. Or are you saying you haven't sinned since you were saved? We do not have the capacity to be perfect because we are still human, still flesh. What is the sinful nature? Our FLESH.

    shall we continue in sin that grace may abound GOD forbid that is some very strong language. read the whole chapter.

    Continue in sin refers to a lifestyle of sin with no regard to God's Word - Condoning or making excuses for your sin. Someone who has put on CHRIST cannot go about living in constant sin without remorse or confession. We are dead to that LIFESTYLE.

    9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
    10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
     
  4. Josiah

    Josiah Super suction ears away!

    312
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    Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. Romans 5:9

    Those who have put their faith in Christ are justified and no longer seen as sinners but through the Blood of Jesus. God will judge those who have not put their faith in Jesus. We are all sinners, but those are the ones who are seen as sinners.


    [/QUOTE]once your saved the flesh is dead.[/QUOTE]

    That's not true. The flesh doesn't die when you're saved...that's the whole problem. That would mean we would literally die once we put our faith in Jesus. We die to the sinful lifestyle and no longer are seen as sinners because we are justified by our faith in JESUS alone. Once we are saved, the war begins. That's why Paul says we should:

    10 ...be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.
    11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.
    12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
    13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.
    14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,
    15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.
    16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
    17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

    That doesn't mean if we slip up we are lost. If that's the case, we're all lost...(you included)
     
  5. Apologist

    Apologist 2 Tim. 2:24-26

    +10
    Christian
    Amen Josiah. You are right on target with scripture my friend.

    Let me add 1 John 2:1-2 for JTC to consider:

    My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
    The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.

    John makes it clear that we DO still sin and that we are to take it to our Advocate, Jesus Christ the righteous.

    God Bless
     
  6. solo66 man

    solo66 man Well-Known Member

    +2
    If because we are sinless, then why do we need the blood of Christ to cover our sins? Read Romans 6:3-13

    3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

    4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

    5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.

    6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin--

    7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

    8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.

    9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.

    10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

    11 In the same way, count (reckon) yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

    12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.

    13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin , as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness.

    Therefore, contrary to your summary in which you said Paul was speaking to those still under the law vs. 3 and 4 show he was speaking to us who have been saved and baptized.
    We are still quite capable of sin, but are admonished not to.
    look at vs. 14,15, &16

    14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

    15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

    16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey --whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
     
  7. jtc

    jtc New Member

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    LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR ROMANS 3:4 I BELIEVE GODS WORD OVER EVERY SINNER. JESUS SAID IF THEY HATE ME THEY WILL HATE YOU. YOU HAVE NO CLOKE FOR YOUR SINS JOHN 15:20-22. YOU STILL SIN BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT OBEYED GODS WORD. THINK OF THIS. MULTITUDES FOLLOWED JESUS AND SAW HIS MIRACLES BUT ONLY 120 PEOPLE MADE IT TO THE END . READ JAMES 2:19 EVEN THE DEVILS BELIEVE AND TREMBLE. BELIEVING WILL NOT SAVE YOU. JOHN THE BAPTIST AND JESUS MADE IT CLEAR . EVERY TREE THAT BRINGS FOURTH BAD FRUIT IS HEWN INTO THE FIRE. READ JOHN 8:27-40 IT SAY THE JEWS BELIEVED ON HIM AND JESUS SAID IF YOU KEEP MY SAYINGS YOU ARE MY DICIPLES INDEED. NOBODY WHO SINS HAS KEPT JESUS'S SAYINGS. A GOOD TREE DOES NOT BRING FOURTH BAD FRUIT. WHOSOEVER ABIDETH IN HIM SINNETH NOT. 1STJOHN3:5
    WHOSOEVER SINNETH HATH NOT SEEN HIM OR KNOWN HIM. ^
    WHOSOEVER SINNETH IS OF THE DEVIL.1STJOHN3:8 WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN 1STJOHN3:9 IN LUKE 13:3 JESUS WAS ASKING DO YOU THINK THOSE SINNERS WERE WORSE SINNERS THAN OTHERS ONES. HE SAID NO BUT UNLESS YOU REPENT YOU WILL ALL LIKEWISE PERISH. WHOSOEVER COMMITTETH A SIN IS A SERVENT OF SIN.JOHN8:34 A LITTLE LEAVEN LEAVENETH THE WHOLE LUMP. PAUL SAID THIS A COUPLE OF TIMES. JOHN1:12 YOU HAVE THE POWER TO BECOME A SON OF GOD AND A SON OF GOD DOES NOT SIN. WITH PETER HE DENIED 3 TIME BUT THEY DID NOT HAVE THE HOLY GHOST BECAUSE IT WAS NOT GIVEN UNTIL THE DAY OF PENTACOST. JESUS EVEN TOLD PETER THAT HE HAD NOT BEEN CONVERTED IN LUKE 22:32. HE SAID ONCE YOU ARE CONVERTED STRENGTHEN THY BRETHREN. PAUL WAS THE CHIEF OF SINNERS BEFORE HE GOT SAVED. LOOK AT THE VERSES RIGHT BEFORE HE SAID THAT. HE TELLS ABOUT HOW HE BLASPHEMED JESUS'S NAME AND PERSECUTED AND KILLED THE CHRISTAINS BEFORE HE WAS SAVED. LIKE I SAID IT IS WIERD THAT THE BIBLE HAD TO INCLUDE THOSE VERSES IN 2ND PETER 3:15-17 ABOUT PAULS WRITINGS TO BE CONFUSING TO THE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE AND THAT PEOPLE WOULD TWIST THEM TO THIER OWN DESTRUCTION. JESUS CAME TO SAVE US FROM OUR SINS AND TAKE THEM AWAY. IF YOU ARE BORN OF THE HOLY SPIRIT YOU ARE JUST LIKE JESUS. IF GOD BE WITH US WHO CAN BE AGAINST US. THE DEVIL IS NOT MORE POWERFUL THAN GOD THAT IS WHY YOU DONT SIN AFTER YOU GET SAVED. HE EVEN PROMISES THIS IN 1ST COR 10:13AND 2ND PET 2:9 AS WELL AS OTHER VERSES JESUS IS THE GOOD SHEPERD. HE WOULD NOT LET THE DEVIL DESTROY HIS FLOCK. IN 1ST PETER HE SAYS WE ARE A HOLY NATION, A PECULLIAL PEOPLE. THAT IS WHY THE WORLD DOES NOT KNOW THE REAL. IT RECOGNIZES ALL THE COUNTERFEITS. THERE ARE OVER 2500 DIFFERENT COUNTERFEITS TODAY. IN TITUS 2:14 HE SAID HE WOULD PURIFY UNTO HIMSELF A PECULLIAR PEOPLE ZEALOUS OF GOOD WORKS. READ 2ND TIM CHAPTER 3. DESCRIBES THE WORLD TODAY PERFECTLY. LOOK AT VERSE 5 AND 7 THEY HAVE A FORM OF GODLINESS BUT DENY THE POWER. AND EVER LEARNING BUT NEVER ABLE TO COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH. IN THE SAME CHAPTER VERSE 12 IT SAYS ALL THAT WILL GODLY WILL SUFFER PERSECUTION. LIVING GODLY IS NOT SINNING. YOU NOTICE IT SAYS THEY HAVE A FORM OF GODLINESS BUT DENY THE POWER. THEY DENY THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST WHICH IS ALSO GOD . THEY SAY THE DEVIL IS MORE POWERFUL THEN GOD AND THAT IS WHY THEY SIN. IN 2NDTIMOTHY CHAPTER 4:3 IT TALKS ABOUT THE END TIMES WHEN PEOPLE WONT ENDUR SOUND DOCTRINE BUT WILL HEAP TO THEMSELVES TEACHERS. LOOK AT RELIGION OVER 2500 DIFFERENT FORMS OF IT. WHY CANT PEOPLE SEE. JESUS SAID THE SUN AN MOON WOULD BE DARKENED AT THE END . THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. PEOPLE WHO GO TO CHURCH ARE NO DIFFERENT FROM THE PHARISEES. THEY GO TO CHURCH,PRAY,GIVE MONEY,MAKE PROSOLYTES AND THEY LIVE IN THIER SINS. JESUS SAID IF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS DOES NOT EXCEED THIER RIGHTEOUNESS YOU WONT MAKE IT TO HEAVEN. WHAT IS SIN 1ST JOHN 3:4 SAYS SIN IS THE TRANGRESSION OF THE LAW. THE 10 COMMANDMENTS. A COUPLE OF VERSES THAT BACK THAT UP IN CASE THIER IS DOUBT ARE JAMES 2:10--11 ROMANS 2:20-24 13:8-10 MARK 10:17-21 JUST TO NAME A FEW. READ THE COMMANDMENTS . DID GOD MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP THEM. IN ROMANS 8 3-4 IT SAYS JESUS CONDEMNED SIN IN THE FLESH SO WE COULD FUFILL THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW. YOU CAN ONLY FULFILL THE LAW IF YOU HAVE THE RIGHT FOUNDATION. IF YOU KEEP FALLING INTO SIN YOU DONT HAVE THE RIGHT FOUNDATION. ACTS 2:38 AND HEBREWS 6:2. THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN RECIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IS BY AN APOSTLE WHO IS SENT FROM GOD.ACTS 8:18.1ST CORIN 12:27 AND EPH 4:11 TELL US THAT HE WILL GIVE THE CHURCH APOSTLES AND THE CHURCH IS NOT A BUILDING OR AN ORGANIZATION OF MAN. JESUS SAID HE WOULD BUILD THE CHURCH AND HE WOULD BE THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH. KNOWBODY IN THE BIBLE EVER BUILT A BUILDING OR TRIED TO MAKE AN ORGANIZATION.
     
  8. jtc

    jtc New Member

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    1st john 1:8-10 is not written to christains.read 1st john 1:3 he says i am writing so you may--also have fellowship with us and look at 1:9 he will cleanse you from all unrighteousness. if you are cleansed from ---all unrighteousness you wont sin anymore so that means it agrees with chapt 3:5-10. the bible will never contradict itself. the bible tells us we have the power to become sons of God and a son of God is not a sinner
     
  9. Apologist

    Apologist 2 Tim. 2:24-26

    +10
    Christian
    That is incorrect JTC.

    1 john chapter 2 begins with these words:
    "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."
    The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.

    This letter is written to the saints because John addresses them as "My little children." He also refers to them as "Brethren" in verse 7. Did you notice what John said in 2:1? John said, "And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." Why would he tell us this if we no longer sin? When John says believers cannot sin he is referring to an ongoing constant state of sinning as we did before we came to Christ. John said in 1:6: "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth."
    Notice he said, "walk in darkness?" That is referring to what I said, that it is no longer our practice to sin. The word "walk" in the KJV means thus:
    4043 peripateo { per-ee-pat-eh’-o}

    from 4012 and 3961; TDNT - 5:940,804; v

    AV - walk 93, go 1, walk about 1, be occupied 1; 96

    GK - 4344 { peripatevw }

    1) to walk
    1a) to make one’s way, progress; to make due use of opportunities
    1b) Hebrew for, to live
    1b1) to regulate one’s life
    1b2) to conduct one’s self
    1b3) to pass one’s life
    Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1995.

    Notice explaination 1b2) "to conduct one's life."
    Apply that to the text of verse 6 and it reads, "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and (conduct one's life) in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.
    That makes it clear as to what John is saying here.

    God Bless
     
  10. jtc

    jtc New Member

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    LIKE I SAID READ 1ST JOHN 1:3. HE IS GOING BACK AND FOURTH. THAT IS WHY HE WILL START OUT SAYING I AM WRITING TO YOU LITTLE CHILDREN AND I AM WRITING TO YOU YOUNG MEN. IN VERSE 3 HE SAYS I AM WRITING SO THAT YOU MAY ALSO HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH US. AND IN 2:2 IT SAYS IF ANYMAN SINS IT DOES NOT SAY IF YOU SIN OR IF ANY SAINT SINS. READ THE ENDOF CHAPTER 5 HE REITERATES THIS POINT. HE SAYS IF ANY MAN SEES HIS BROTHER SIN A SIN NOT UNTO DEATH.---- WE KNOW WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN. YOU SEE HE SAYS IF ANY MAN, LIKE HE DID IN CHAPTER 2. HE DID NOT SAY IF ANY SAINT OR CHRISTAIN OR BROTHER IN CHRIST. HE SAID IF ANY MAN. LOOK AT THE REST OF THE BOOKS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FROM ROMANS TO 2ND PETER AND EVEN 2ND AND 3RD JOHN. THEY ALL START OUT BY SAYING THEY ARE TO SAINTS AND THE ELECT. IF YOU WERE TO SAY ALL OF 1ST JOHN WAS WRITTEN TO BELIEVERS THE BIBLE WOULD CONTRADICT ITSELF AND BE INVALID. IT SAYS IF WE WALK IN DARKNESS(SIN) WE LIE IF WE SAY WE HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH HIM.AND IF WE DONT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS WE LIE IF WE SAY WE KOW HIM. AND WHOSOEVER ABIDETH IN HIM SINNETH NO ,WHOSOEVER SINNETH HAS NOT SEEN HIM OR KNOWN HIM. THE REASON HE SAID IF ANYMAN SINS IS BECAUSE JESUS DIED FOR THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE. YOU KNOW HOW THE JEWS WERE. THEY STUCK TO THEMSELVES AND THEY DID NOT ASSOCIATE WITH THE GENTILES. THAT IS WHY JESUS STRESSED ON LOVING ONE ANOTHER AND TO JUDGE NOT ACCORDING TO APPEARANCE BUT JUDGE RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT. THE LORD HAD TO REVEAL THIS TO PETER IN A DREAM IN ACTS CHAPTER 8 OR 9 I BELIEVE. JOHN BASICLY GAVE THE FIRST STEPS OF SALVATION IN 1:8-10. IF ANYONE SAYS THAT HE HAS NO SIN HE IS A LIAR. VERSE 9 IF WE CONFESS OUR SINS HE IS WILL FORGIVE US OUR SINS AND CLEANSE US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. IF YOU ARE CLEANSED FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUNESS YOU WONT SIN ANYMORE BECAUSE THE LORD PROMISES TO CLEANSE US AND JESUS SAID HE WOULD MAKE YOU FREE JOHN8:27-36. YOU ARE NOT CLEANSED FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS AND JESUS HAS NOT MADE YOU FREE IF YOU ARE STILL IN BONDAGE TO THE DEVIL. LATER ON IN CHAPTER 5 HE GIVES THE OTHER PARTS OF SALVATION WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT THE BLOOD THE WATER AND THE SPIRIT AGREEING ON EARTH. IF EVERYONE IS SO CONVINCED THAT ONCE YOUR SAVED YOU STILL SIN PLEASE SHOW ME A VERSE THAT CAN CLEARLY WITHOUT A DOUBT LIKE THE VERSES IN1ST JOHN 3:5-9 AND ALL OF THE OTHER VERSES THAT I HAVE POINTED OUT IN THE PAST LITTLE EXCERPTS I HAVE WRITTEN. AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT YOUR DEFINITION OF SIN IS. SIN SEPERATES YOU FROM GOD. SIN IS THE BREAKING OF THE TEN COMMANDMENT. 1ST JOHN 3:4
     
  11. Apologist

    Apologist 2 Tim. 2:24-26

    +10
    Christian
    JTC,

    Turn off your caps lock key on your computer. Trying to follow someone's thoughts in all capital letters is hard on the eyes.
    I am curious about something also: Do you sin at all JTC?


    God Bless
     
  12. jtc

    jtc New Member

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    Jesus took away my sins because i obeyed what i had to do to be saved. If you have God living in you wont sin. I believe Gods word. A good tree can not bear bad fruit. If you think jesus is going to let a sinner into heaven you are decieved. Look at what happened to the isrealites in the desert. Only 2 people made it. The people who God destroyed were the people who disobyed him. in hebrews 3 it says they did not enter in because of unbelief. They believed in God because they saw hi signs and miracles. Thier unbelief was them thinking they did not obey. The world is under a strong delusion. over 2500 religions serving God the way they want to servr him. They will all perish because they have pleasure in unrighteousness. If you dont want to believe Jesus can make you free like he said in john 8:27-40 then you will die in your sins like the pharisees. 1st john 2:1 does not say if we sin or one of us sins . IT SAYS if any man sins. if every one sinned after they got saved we would all be liars if we say we knew him and we would all be of the devil. read the 1st 3 chapters. If we say we know him and walk in darkness or we dont keep his commandments we lie and the truth is not in us. So if you ever walk in darkness you are not saved ,you dont him, and you will go to hell forever. Jesus's people are a peculliar people it says in titus and peter. IF you still sin you are still in bondage to the devil and the son has not made you free. We are in the end times and jesus said false prophets would decieve many and in timothy it says noone will endur sound doctrine but heap to themselves teachers having itchy ears. over 2500 different religions. God has always only had a remnent and his people are different. all 2500 religions agree on the same thing. Jesus will not cleanse you from all sin even though he says he will make you free and 1st john 1:9 he will clease you from all unrighteousness. You can stay with the world on the broad path to destruction or you can lose your whole filthy sinful life so you can have jesus's life.
     
  13. Josiah

    Josiah Super suction ears away!

    312
    +1
    jtc, i was just curious...
    Can you submit a list of every sin there is for me?
     
  14. MizDoulos

    MizDoulos <font color=6c2dc7><b>Justified by grace through f

    +3
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I didn't read all the posts in the thread, but the last few in particular gave me a good idea of the debate. If I may add my 2 cents to the discussion . . .

    When people are saved from their sins, they are made perfect in Christ positionally. We believers have been forgiven yesterday, today, and tomorrow. However, practically speaking, in our everyday lives, we continue to have bad thoughts and actions because the flesh is still in us. We are not in the flesh but are in Christ. Hence, we're still battling that ol' flesh and its sinful nature until we receive our sinless, glorified bodies in Heaven.

    So, in the practical part of our lives, we will commit sins everyday (just look at our own lives and we can see our sins). But positionally, we are made perfect because of what Christ did on the cross.

    Hope that helps.

    God bless,

    Pat
     
  15. marmaladePRO

    marmaladePRO Active Member

    835
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    great post MizD...
    that position is 'right standing with God'...
    Josiah, i see where you're fishin' with your question, but i figure ALL sin results from and is tyed to a 'seperation' from God,
     
  16. jtc

    jtc New Member

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    sin is breaking the 10 commandments
     
  17. MizDoulos

    MizDoulos <font color=6c2dc7><b>Justified by grace through f

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    Non-Denom
    Married
    Thanks, marmalade! :)
     
  18. Apologist

    Apologist 2 Tim. 2:24-26

    +10
    Christian
    There is much more to sin then that my friend. There are sins of omission for instance.
    Omission means- a : something neglected or left undone b : apathy toward or neglect of duty

    Since you were saved have you done everything God has required of you, every time, and in every instance without exception? Have you ever had any evil or impure thought or motive? These are all sins and I am sure you can answer yes to several at least. You do not stop sinning when you are saved. Sin no longer has control of you as it did before, but you still secumb to it at times. To say otherwise is nothing but ignorance or complete disregard of what scripture teaches. The scripture is replete with verses telling christians to avoid lusts of the flesh, etc.
    If believers never sin again then give me your exposition of
    1 Corinthians 5:1-5- It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    This man had his father's wife as his own wife (incest), and yet Paul said, "deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
    Saved? How could this man be saved and commit a sin like this?

    God Bless
     
  19. SenseiPiccolo

    SenseiPiccolo Active Member

    +0
    OUCH!!!!

    Ya need to insert a few paragraph spaces there....

    as far as m concerned...
    Its not I that lives but Christ Who liveth in me
    ^_^
     
  20. jtc

    jtc New Member

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    THAT SITUATION IN CORINTHIANS IS A GOOD POINT THAT A PERSON WHO WANTS TO LIVE IN HIS SINS WOULD BRING UP. THE BOOK OF ACTS IS A SPAN OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. I THINK IN ACTS 15 THE APOSTLES AND ELDERS GOT TOGEATHER TO WRITE A LETTER TO THE GENTILES. IN THAT LETTER IT SAID THAT THEY SHOULD ABSTAIN FROM FORNICATION. AS YOU KNOW IT WAS A COMMON PRACTICE FOR THE GENTILES TO DO SUCH ACTS OF IMMORALITY AND IT WAS ACCEPTED BY GENTILES THAT THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. THAT IS WHY THE APOSTLES AND ELDERS GOT TOGEATHER TO WRITE THAT LETTER TO THEM. THEY DID NOT KNOW THAT IT WAS SUCH A SERIOUS THING. LIKE JAMES SAID, HE THAT KNOWETH TO DO GOOD AND DOETH IT NOT IT IS SIN. YOU CAN SAY THAT THEY KNEW IT WAS WRONG AND THEY DID IT ANYWAY AND SINNED. ON JUDGEMENT DAY, IF YOU DID NOT GIVE UP ALL YOUR SINS JESUS WILL TELL YOU TO GET AWAY FROM HIM. MATTHEW 7:21AND LUKE 13;26. ALSO READ 1ST JOHN CHAPTER 3. YOU HAVE TO HAVE YOUR SINS REMITTED BY AN APOSTLE CALLED OF GOD.
     
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