Romans 14 settles the whole debate

[Daniel Marsh]

Romans 14Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Don’t Criticize Others
14 Be willing to accept those who still have doubts about what believers can do. And don’t argue with them about their different ideas. 2 Some people believe they can eat any kind of food, but those who have doubts eat only vegetables. 3 Those who know they can eat any kind of food must not feel that they are better than those who eat only vegetables. And those who eat only vegetables must not decide that those who eat all foods are wrong. God has accepted them. 4 You cannot judge the servants of someone else. Their own master decides if they are doing right or wrong. And the Lord’s servants will be right, because the Lord is able to make them right.

5 Some people might believe that one day is more important than another. And others might believe that every day is the same. Everyone should be sure about their beliefs in their own mind. 6 Those who think one day is more important than other days are doing that for the Lord. And those who eat all kinds of food are doing that for the Lord. Yes, they give thanks to God for that food. And those who refuse to eat some foods do that for the Lord. They also give thanks to God.

7 We don’t live or die just for ourselves. 8 If we live, we are living for the Lord. And if we die, we are dying for the Lord. So living or dying, we belong to the Lord. 9 That is why Christ died and rose from death to live again—so that he could be Lord over those who have died and those who are living.

10 So why do you judge your brother or sister in Christ? Or why do you think that you are better than they are? We will all stand before God, and he will judge us all. 11 Yes, the Scriptures say,

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘Everyone will bow before me;
everyone will say that I am God.’” A)" data-cr="#cen-ERV-27936A" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;">

12 So each of us will have to explain to God about the things we do.

Don’t Cause Others to Sin
13 So we should stop judging each other. Let’s decide not to do anything that will cause a problem for a brother or sister or hurt their faith. 14 I know that there is no food that is wrong to eat. The Lord Jesus is the one who convinced me of that. But if someone believes that something is wrong, then it is wrong for that person.

15 If you hurt the faith of your brother or sister because of something you eat, you are not really following the way of love. Don’t destroy anyone’s faith by eating something they think is wrong. Christ died for them. 16 Don’t allow what is good for you to become something they say is evil. 17 In God’s kingdom, what we eat and drink is not important. Here is what is important: a right way of life, peace, and joy—all from the Holy Spirit. 18 Whoever serves Christ by living this way is pleasing God, and they will be accepted by others.

19 So let’s try as hard as we can to do what will bring peace. Let’s do whatever will help each other grow stronger in faith. 20 Don’t let the eating of food destroy the work of God. All food is right to eat, but it is wrong for anyone to eat something that hurts the faith of another person. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything else that hurts the faith of your brother or sister.

22 You should keep your beliefs about these things a secret between yourself and God. It is a blessing to be able to do what you think is right without feeling guilty. 23 But anyone who eats something without being sure it is right is doing wrong. That is because they did not believe it was right. And if you do anything that you believe is not right, it is sin.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

what debate?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Seventh Day Adventist and other Seventh day churches like to debate the day of worship. They makes claims like worshiping on Sunday is the mark of the antichrist.

Romans 14 makes it plan that there were Christians who worshiped on other days besides Saturday.

Some were in the habit of daily worship.

 

[BobRyan]

Seventh Day Adventist and other Seventh day churches like to debate the day of worship. They makes claims like worshiping on Sunday is the mark of the antichrist.

Romans 14 makes it plan that there were Christians who worshiped on other days besides Saturday.

Some were in the habit of daily worship.

Romans 14 says that "one man observes one day above another while another man observes all of them"

Galatians 4 flatly condemns anyone that observes a pagan holy day.

The holy days observed in Romans 14 are the Bible-approved annual holy days listed in Leviticus 23. They had been observed for centuries along with the 7th day Bible Sabbath. One did not negate the other.

So then Galatians 4 condemns observance of even ONE of the pagan holy days - but does not condemn observance of the Lev 23 Bible holy days defended in Romans 14.

The question is not "does the Bible address any other holy days in Lev 23 other than the weekly Sabbath" because everyone on both sides - will admit that it does. They are annual holy days.

As for the Bible Sabbath - "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND Come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

 

[Soyeong]

Seventh Day Adventist and other Seventh day churches like to debate the day of worship. They makes claims like worshiping on Sunday is the mark of the antichrist.

Romans 14 makes it plan that there were Christians who worshiped on other days besides Saturday.

Some were in the habit of daily worship.

There is a theme throughout the Bible that we must obey God rather than man, so it is important not to mistake something that was written against obeying man's opinions or laws as being against obeying God's law. The topic of Romans 14 is given in the first verse, namely the chapter is about how to handle disputes over man's opinion, not whether to obey God. Paul was certainly not suggesting that it was ok to commit murder, theft, adultery, or to sin by disobey any of God's other commands just so long as you were convinced in your own mind that it was ok. Where God's Word is clear, then human opinion must yield, but where God's Word is not clear, only then should each be convinced in their own minds. For example, God's Word clearly commands not to work on the Sabbath, but it does not clearly list what activities count as work, so they were not disputing whether it was ok to disobey God's command, but they did dispute what counts as work, such as how far someone could walk or how much someone could lift.

Similarly, God's Word clearly prohibits idolatry, but does not clearly state everything that counts as idolatry. Meat that had been sacrificed to idols was often later sold on the market and God's Word does not clearly state whether it ok to eat meat when you don't know whether it has been sacrificed to idols. Some people thought that no meat should be eaten at community meals when it couldn't be verified where it had come from, so they chose to eat only vegetables (Romans 14:2). They were in judging those who did eat meat at community meals and were in turn being resented (Romans 14:3).

The only day that God commanded fasting was on the Day of Atonement, but as a matter of opinion, it had become a common practice to fast twice a week or to commemorate certain events (Luke 18:12). In Romans 14:5-6, it is talking about those who were eating or refraining from eating, so it is talking about fasting. Those who esteemed certain days for fasting were judging those who did not and were in turn being resented. We are not to keep the Sabbath because we esteemed it, but because God esteemed it, blessed it, made it holy, and commanded it to be kept, and because what is holy to God should be holy to us. So whether someone chooses to fast on other days is a disputable matter of human opinion, but whether someone chooses to fast on the Day of Atonement is a matter of obedience to God.

Didache 8:1 Let not your fasts be with the hypocrites, for they fast on Mondays and Thursdays, but do you fast on Wednesdays and Fridays.

The above quote is an example of exactly this sort of judging each other of opinions that Paul was seeking to quell.

 

[SAAN]

Romans 14Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Don’t Criticize Others
14 Be willing to accept those who still have doubts about what believers can do. And don’t argue with them about their different ideas. 2 Some people believe they can eat any kind of food, but those who have doubts eat only vegetables. 3 Those who know they can eat any kind of food must not feel that they are better than those who eat only vegetables. And those who eat only vegetables must not decide that those who eat all foods are wrong. God has accepted them. 4 You cannot judge the servants of someone else. Their own master decides if they are doing right or wrong. And the Lord’s servants will be right, because the Lord is able to make them right.

5 Some people might believe that one day is more important than another. And others might believe that every day is the same. Everyone should be sure about their beliefs in their own mind. 6 Those who think one day is more important than other days are doing that for the Lord. And those who eat all kinds of food are doing that for the Lord. Yes, they give thanks to God for that food. And those who refuse to eat some foods do that for the Lord. They also give thanks to God.

7 We don’t live or die just for ourselves. 8 If we live, we are living for the Lord. And if we die, we are dying for the Lord. So living or dying, we belong to the Lord. 9 That is why Christ died and rose from death to live again—so that he could be Lord over those who have died and those who are living.

10 So why do you judge your brother or sister in Christ? Or why do you think that you are better than they are? We will all stand before God, and he will judge us all. 11 Yes, the Scriptures say,

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘Everyone will bow before me;
everyone will say that I am God.’” A)" data-cr="#cen-ERV-27936A" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;">

12 So each of us will have to explain to God about the things we do.

Don’t Cause Others to Sin
13 So we should stop judging each other. Let’s decide not to do anything that will cause a problem for a brother or sister or hurt their faith. 14 I know that there is no food that is wrong to eat. The Lord Jesus is the one who convinced me of that. But if someone believes that something is wrong, then it is wrong for that person.

15 If you hurt the faith of your brother or sister because of something you eat, you are not really following the way of love. Don’t destroy anyone’s faith by eating something they think is wrong. Christ died for them. 16 Don’t allow what is good for you to become something they say is evil. 17 In God’s kingdom, what we eat and drink is not important. Here is what is important: a right way of life, peace, and joy—all from the Holy Spirit. 18 Whoever serves Christ by living this way is pleasing God, and they will be accepted by others.

19 So let’s try as hard as we can to do what will bring peace. Let’s do whatever will help each other grow stronger in faith. 20 Don’t let the eating of food destroy the work of God. All food is right to eat, but it is wrong for anyone to eat something that hurts the faith of another person. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything else that hurts the faith of your brother or sister.

22 You should keep your beliefs about these things a secret between yourself and God. It is a blessing to be able to do what you think is right without feeling guilty. 23 But anyone who eats something without being sure it is right is doing wrong. That is because they did not believe it was right. And if you do anything that you believe is not right, it is sin.

Don’t Criticize Others
14 Be willing to accept those who still have doubts about what believers can do. And don’t argue with them about their different ideas.
2 Some people believe they can eat any kind of food, but those who have doubts eat only vegetables.
3 Those who know they can eat any kind of food must not feel that they are better than those who eat only vegetables. And those who eat only vegetables must not decide that those who eat all foods are wrong. God has accepted them.
4 You cannot judge the servants of someone else. Their own master decides if they are doing right or wrong. And the Lord’s servants will be right, because the Lord is able to make them right.

6 Those who think one day is more important than other days are doing that for the Lord. And those who eat all kinds of food are doing that for the Lord. Yes, they give thanks to God for that food. And those who refuse to eat some foods do that for the Lord. They also give thanks to God.

Please read the entire chapter in context, Romans 14 is about fasting and not judging others about what days they choose to fast.

Its NOT about picking a day of worship, as the Sabbath isnt even being debated in the entire book or Romans and they ALL knew back then which day was the Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

Don’t Criticize Others
14 Be willing to accept those who still have doubts about what believers can do. And don’t argue with them about their different ideas.
2 Some people believe they can eat any kind of food, but those who have doubts eat only vegetables.
3 Those who know they can eat any kind of food must not feel that they are better than those who eat only vegetables. And those who eat only vegetables must not decide that those who eat all foods are wrong. God has accepted them.
4 You cannot judge the servants of someone else. Their own master decides if they are doing right or wrong. And the Lord’s servants will be right, because the Lord is able to make them right.

6 Those who think one day is more important than other days are doing that for the Lord. And those who eat all kinds of food are doing that for the Lord. Yes, they give thanks to God for that food. And those who refuse to eat some foods do that for the Lord. They also give thanks to God.

Please read the entire chapter in context, Romans 14 is about fasting and not judging others about what days they choose to fast.

Its NOT about picking a day of worship, as the Sabbath isnt even being debated in the entire book or Romans and they ALL knew back then which day was the Sabbath.

\

note - you said
"Please read the entire chapter in context, Romans 14 is about fasting and not judging others about what days they choose to fast."

Romans 14 merely says "observes the day" the observance of the Lev 23 holy days did not always involve fasting. It is not about fasting but rather observing certain Bible-approved holy days - the annual holy days of Lev 23.

 

[SAAN]

\

note - you said
"Please read the entire chapter in context, Romans 14 is about fasting and not judging others about what days they choose to fast."

Romans 14 merely says "observes the day" the observance of the Lev 23 holy days did not always involve fasting. It is not about fasting but rather observing certain Bible-approved holy days - the annual holy days of Lev 23.

Agreed that if they are referring to fasting, they are more than likely referencing the biblical holy days. It seems Romans 14 is the go to chapter for many to say, Rom 14 says its okay to just pick whatever day you want for worship and its okay to eat whatever you please as well.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Romans 14 says that "one man observes one day above another while another man observes all of them"

Galatians 4 flatly condemns anyone that observes a pagan holy day.

The holy days observed in Romans 14 are the Bible-approved annual holy days listed in Leviticus 23. They had been observed for centuries along with the 7th day Bible Sabbath. One did not negate the other.

So then Galatians 4 condemns observance of even ONE of the pagan holy days - but does not condemn observance of the Lev 23 Bible holy days defended in Romans 14.

The question is not "does the Bible address any other holy days in Lev 23 other than the weekly Sabbath" because everyone on both sides - will admit that it does. They are annual holy days.

As for the Bible Sabbath - "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND Come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Worship of the True God for the one worshiping Him is not a pagan holiday, no matter what the Pagans are doing.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

5 For sfreedom Christ has tset us free; ustand firm therefore, and do not submit again to va yoke of wslavery.

xif you accept circumcision, yChrist will be of no advantage to you. zhe is obligated to keep the whole law. asevered from Christ, byou who would be justified1 by the law; cyou have fallen away from grace. dwait for the hope of righteousness. eneither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but fonly faith working through love.

gYou were running well. Who hindered you from obeying hthe truth? ihim who calls you. jA little leaven leavens the whole lump. kI have confidence in the Lord that you will ltake no other view, and mthe one who is troubling you will bear the penalty, whoever he is. 2 still preach3circumcision, nwhy am I still being persecuted? In that case othe offense of the cross has been removed. pthose who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!

qOnly do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love rserve one another. sthe whole law is fulfilled in one word: t“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” ubite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.

vwalk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify wthe desires of the flesh. xthe desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, yto keep you from doing the things you want to do. zled by the Spirit, ayou are not under the law. bthe works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, cdivisions, 4 drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that dthose who do* such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. ethe fruit of the Spirit is flove, joy, peace, patience, gkindness, goodness, faithfulness, hgentleness, iself-control; jagainst such things there is no law. khave crucified the flesh with its lpassions and desires.

mlet us also keep in step with the Spirit. nLet us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

1 oif anyone is caught in any transgression, pyou who are spiritual should restore him in qa spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. rBear one another’s burdens, and sso fulfill tthe law of Christ. uif anyone thinks he is something, vwhen he is nothing, he deceives himself. wtest his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. xeach will have to bear his own load.

yLet the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches. zDo not be deceived: God is not mocked, for awhatever one sows, that will he also reap. bthe one who sows to his own flesh cwill from the flesh reap corruption, but dthe onewho sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. elet us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, fif we do not give up. gas we have opportunity, let us hdo good to everyone, and especially to those who are iof the household of faith.

jwith my own hand. kIt is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh lwho would force you to be circumcised, and only min order that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. nexcept in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which2 the world ohas been crucified to me, and I to the world. pneither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but qa new creation. rpeace and mercy be upon them, and upon sthe Israel of God.

tThe grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be uwith your spirit, brothers. Amen.

Acts 19) to display the scope of God’s eternal plan for all humanity—for Jews and Gentiles alike. This is the mystery of God, hidden for ages but now made known in Jesus Christ. The first three chapters focus on what Christians should believe, unfolding the glorious riches of God’s grace in Christ. Dead sinners are made alive and gain eternal salvation “by grace … through faith” (2:8). The last three chapters explain the implications of God’s grace for the church, for individuals, and for families. This second section comes to a climax with a command to stand with the armor of God against the devil. Paul wrote this letter while in prison, probably in Rome about a.d. 60.

aan apostle of Christ Jesus bby the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and care faithful1 in Christ Jesus:

dGrace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

eBlessed be fthe God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing gin the heavenly places, heven as he ichose us in him jbefore the foundation of the world, that we should be kholy and blameless before him. In love lhe predestined us2 for madoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, naccording to the purpose of his will, oto the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in pthe Beloved. qIn him we have rredemption sthrough his blood, tthe forgiveness of our trespasses, uaccording to the riches of his grace, vmaking known3 to us the mystery of his will, naccording to his purpose, which he wset forth in Christ xthe fullness of time, yto unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

zan inheritance, ahaving been predestined baccording to the purpose of him who works all things according to cthe counsel of his will, dto the praise of his glory. ethe word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, fwere sealed with the gpromised Holy Spirit, hthe guarantee4 of our iinheritance until jwe acquire kpossession of it,5 lto the praise of his glory.

mbecause I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love6 toward all the saints, ndo not cease to give thanks for you, oremembering you in my prayers, pthe God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, qmay give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, rhaving the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is sthe hope to which he has called you, what are tthe riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, uaccording to the working of vhis great might wwhen he raised him from the dead and xseated him at his right hand yin the heavenly places, zfar above aall rule and authority and power and dominion, and above bevery name that is named, not only in cthis age but also in the one to come. dhe put all things under his feet and gave him as ehead over all things to the church, fwhich is his body, gthe fullness of him hwho fills iall in all.

jAnd you were kdead in the trespasses and sins lin which you once walked, following the course of this world, following mthe prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in nthe sons of disobedience— othe passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body1 and the mind, and pwere by nature qchildren of wrath, like the rest of mankind.2 3 God, being rrich in mercy, sbecause of the great love with which he loved us, twhen we were dead in our trespasses, umade us alive together with Christ—vby grace you have been saved— wseated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, xriches of his grace in ykindness toward us in Christ Jesus. zby grace you have been saved athrough faith. And this is bnot your own doing; cit is the gift of God,dnot a result of works, eso that no one may boast. fwe are his workmanship, gcreated in Christ Jesus hfor good works, iwhich God prepared beforehand, jthat we should walk in them.

kthe circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— lthat you were at that time separated from Christ, malienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to nthe covenants of promise, ohaving no hope and without God in the world. pfar off have been brought near qby the blood of Christ. rhe himself is our peace, swho has made us both one and has broken down tin his flesh the dividing wall of hostility uordinances, that he might create in himself one vnew man in place of the two, so making peace, wreconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. xpreached peace to you who were yfar off and peace to those who were znear. athrough him we both have baccess in cone Spirit to the Father. dstrangers and aliens,4 but you are efellow citizens with the saints and fmembers of the household of God, gbuilt on the foundation of the hapostles and prophets, iChrist Jesus himself being jthe cornerstone, kin whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into la holy temple in the Lord. myou also are being built together ninto a dwelling place for God by5 the Spirit.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Historically it is known from the catacombs in Rome that Christians worshiped Jesus every day before sunrise. They were not observing pagan whatever.

 

[BobRyan]

Worship of the True God for the one worshiping Him is not a pagan holiday, no matter what the Pagans are doing.

the attention to Galatians 4 details would be helpful

Here Paul looks at the "details" of these formerly-pagan Christians stating that they are losing Christianity if they observe pagan days.

Gal 4
8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods. 9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

 

[BobRyan]

Historically it is known from the catacombs in Rome that Christians worshiped Jesus every day before sunrise. They were not observing pagan whatever.

Neither Romans 14 nor Galatians 4 is talking about morning prayer and devotions. they are talking about "observing the day" not "observing an hour of morning worship" .

Details matter in Bible study.

In Galatians 4 these Christians are clearly being condemned by Paul for observing those pagan days of worship.

In central and S.America there is a kind of syncretism where pagan worship is mixed in with Christian worship. So not just in Galatians 4.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Today most worship are only an hour. That is not true of back then. You are reading your culture back into scripture. BTW, our daily worship at my church is only six hours.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

the attention to Galatians 4 details would be helpful

Here Paul looks at the "details" of these formerly-pagan Christians stating that they are losing Christianity if they observe pagan days.

Gal 4
8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods. 9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

The Big Ten are part of the Torah, Law.

Acts 13:39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

1 Corinthians 9:20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.

Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

Galatians 3:23 [ Children of God ] Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.

Galatians 4:5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Gal 4 What I am saying is that as long as an heir is underage, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate. 2 The heir is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. 3 So also, when we were underage, we were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forces[a] of the world. 4 But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship. 6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba,[c] Father.” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.

Paul’s Concern for the Galatians
8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces[d]? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

12 I plead with you, brothers and sisters, become like me, for I became like you. You did me no wrong. 13 As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you, 14 and even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself. 15 Where, then, is your blessing of me now? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me. 16 Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

17 Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may have zeal for them. 18 It is fine to be zealous, provided the purpose is good, and to be so always, not just when I am with you. 19 My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you, 20 how I wish I could be with you now and change my tone, because I am perplexed about you!

Hagar and Sarah
21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.

24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:

“Be glad, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
shout for joy and cry aloud,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband.”[e]
28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”[f] 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Gal 4 has nothing to do with pagan days or laws. In context, it brings up Abraham, who is known as the father of Judaism.

 

[BobRyan]

the attention to Galatians 4 details would be helpful

Here Paul looks at the "details" of these formerly-pagan Christians stating that they are losing Christianity if they observe pagan days.

Gal 4
8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods. 9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

Gal 4 has nothing to do with pagan days or laws. In context, it brings up Abraham, who is known as the father of Judaism.

Is that a by-faith-alone no-matter-the-details-in-Gal4 statement?

Is the "you" in Gal 4:8 a supposedly pagan Abraham??
Is the "you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods" a new kind of "not-paganism" version of "those which by nature are no gods"?
Is the "turn back again" to those pagan practices - a turning back again to the "Word of God" in your view??

Just how do you get around Galatians 4:8-11??? by faith alone - no-matter-the-details???

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Clearly someone never read or heard of dietary laws in the bible.

In fact, some Sabbathians appeal to those laws for health to the point of eating vegetables only.

 

[BobRyan]

Today most worship are only an hour. That is not true of back then. You are reading your culture back into scripture. BTW, our daily worship at my church is only six hours.

You are in church for six hours every day??

In any case in Romans 14 and Gal 4:8-11 it is "observing the DAY" not "observing the hour or 6 hours."

 

[BobRyan]

========================== Diet and foods

In Paul's day: Gentiles - the weak in faith... Jewish Christians - the strong in faith ..

Our first clue -- The Jews were celebrating Passover - that is not vegetarian

Paul clearly states that it is the strong faith of the Jews vs the weak faith of the gentiles in 1Cor 8 that results in the vegetarian discussion. There is NO discussion in Romans 14 of eating rats. Rather it is vegetarian vs meat.

1 Cor 8
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
7 However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. 8 But food will not commend us to God; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat. 9 But take care that this liberty of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, dining in an idol’s temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols? 11 For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the brother for whose sake Christ died. 12 And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food causes my brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to stumble.

But in Romans 14 the "weak" eat vegetables only - - so then no Passover

Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. 2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. 3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.


========= Bible Holy Days approved... Pagan holy days condemned ===

I promote the Gen 2:3 7th day made holy and blessed by God as He stated in Ex 20:11

But in Gal 4 - as others point out - there are days that are condemned entirely. And the text shows us that it is the pagan days that are condemned.
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Now lets read Galatians 4.
Gal 4
7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.


(Pagans in Galatia who worshiped false god before becoming Christian)

9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.


By contrast observing Bible holy days is always blessed and protected in scripture.

Romans 14
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;...

10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.


Just when some may have wanted to condemn all Christians that remember to keep God's 4th commandment using Gal 4 that condemns only pagan days - Paul says that there is not even one of the Bible holy days that you may condemn others for keeping, much less condemning those who choose to honor God's 4th commandment.

So then ALL pagan days condemned in Gal 4.

All Bible holy days defended in Romans 14.

These two chapters cannot be bent and edited as if they mean to condemn all observance of the Bible approved days in Gal 4 and defend all observance of pagan days in Rom 14.

Notice that the quote above from Rom 14 is not talking about the right to observe pagan days.

====================

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;...

10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
-- that applies only to Bible approved days - those in the actual word of God. We may not condemn those who observe them all or one of them above the others.

By contrast Paul DOES condemn observance of even ONE pagan day in Gal 4.

A contrast that works against the efforts to condemn God's 4th commandment Sabbath.