Romans 14:23

[Edial]

What makes you say?

"You see, a theological understanding of old man and new man is not really practical in real life."

Isn't the whole point of Rom 6, to show us how to make it practical, along with Gal 5:16-18?

Besides, sure, today I buffeted my body too, I kept working, I gnored the tirednness, but it that is not a philosophy that takes away the Adamic pull.

Paul was not exactly teaching old man, new man theology there.

Romans 8 and Galatians 5:16-18 is description of what happened to us spiritually.
It is telling us that sin is no longer our Master, we are raised with Christ.
Galatians 5:16-18 is telling us to live according to the Spirit.
And today, we have a whole bunch of commentaries that are not that practical in teaching what it means to live according to the Spirit.

How do I live according to the Spirit?
How do I mortify the sin in the body?
Answer in the Bible - by the Spirit ... but how do I do that?
How do I nail the sin to the Cross?

And then it tells us the fruit that is growing in us is due to Spirit.

The point of Romans 6 is to convince us to put our faith in Christ.
To understand what the heck is happening to us.

All we need to do is react to God daily in obedience and some fear (yes, fear ) and God is doing the rest - the whole thing.
And the Fruit is growing.
And it takes time.

Romans 6 and Galatians 5 teaches us and encourages us. Yet it is God Who makes these teachings practical by putting us in situations where by faith and faith alone we obey and do not yell at someone and take the insult instead.

And the Fruit grows, and it gets easier with time.

There is a reason why the Bible says that without faith it is impossible to please God.

Thanks,
In Christ,
Ed

 

[Tangible]

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[Tangible]

You see, a theological understanding of old man and new man is not really practical in real life.
It is encouraging, but not practical.

Thanks,
In Christ,
Ed

That's a pretty substantial departure from Lutheran theology.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Isn’t Paul really just trying to show, about the weak person, in his subjective experience, he thinks it is sin, because in his weak conscience, he is not eating in faith, because he does not know, or is confused about his food, so to him subjectively it is sin., even though it is not objectively.

In other words, isn’t Paul really just showing things about the conscience in 14, and how things are relative, not that he is saying "for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin", in a kind of “life verse” truth, for all things? Isn’t that really the context and teaching of 14?

I think you're right except i'm not sure if what I'm thinking you're saying is what you think you are saying. I'm confused on the import of subjectivity.
So can ritual clean our conscience?
is the answer yes if we truly believe it can?
I don't mean to push limits, but i wonder how far this goes in any direction.
Good OP except,... I can't believe I'm talkin' to a frog.

I can't believe a frog has lasted this long on GT

 

[Frogster]

I can't believe a frog has lasted this long on GT

wow..this is so cool, i was just talking to my wife about this last night!

 

[listed]

In my experience, I think people often quote this verse, without understanding the context. They will throw it at people, and say, "hey whatever is not of faith is sin!"


I don’t think Paul meant to say, that whatever is not of faith in our lives is sin, in that kind of broad manner. Who does not have fear now and then? Who walks in perfect faith all the time?

14:23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

Romans 14 is a real subjective kind of thing. To one, a certain day is something, to another foods are, to another foods or days are not.

There is objective truth. Jesus said clean, but to some, subjectively it is not. One person thinks it is unclean, even though it is not. Paul is showing both, subject, object.


14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean.

Paul is showing more object truth in 17, but also showing the subject truth, of a weak conscience later in 23.. 14:1 opens, talking about the weak conscience, which was what the chapter is about. He is showing both. Fact, the kingdom is..…


17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.


Here, Paul is saying, it is ok, between you and God, subjective, that person is ok in his own mind, subjectively. He eats in faith, he is not feeling condemned.

22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves.

That verse set the stage for the subjectivity of this verse, I believe is often quoted to others, incorrectly.

14:23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin


Isn’t Paul really just trying to show, about the weak person, in his subjective experience, he thinks it is sin, because in his weak conscience, he is not eating in faith, because he does not know, or is confused about his food, so to him subjectively it is sin., even though it is not objectively.

In other words, isn’t Paul really just showing things about the conscience in 14, and how things are relative, not that he is saying "for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin", in a kind of “life verse” truth, for all things? Isn’t that really the context and teaching of 14?

I've employed the verse in response to I John 3:4 to show the error being promoted with the last half of the verse. And of course both are limited to spiritual things.

 

[listed]

Romans 8 and Galatians 5:16-18 is description of what happened to us spiritually.
It is telling us that sin is no longer our Master, we are raised with Christ.
Galatians 5:16-18 is telling us to live according to the Spirit.
And today, we have a whole bunch of commentaries that are not that practical in teaching what it means to live according to the Spirit.

How do I live according to the Spirit?
How do I mortify the sin in the body?
Answer in the Bible - by the Spirit ... but how do I do that?
How do I nail the sin to the Cross?

And then it tells us the fruit that is growing in us is due to Spirit.

The point of Romans 6 is to convince us to put our faith in Christ.
To understand what the heck is happening to us.

All we need to do is react to God daily in obedience and some fear (yes, fear ) and God is doing the rest - the whole thing.
And the Fruit is growing.
And it takes time.

Romans 6 and Galatians 5 teaches us and encourages us. Yet it is God Who makes these teachings practical by putting us in situations where by faith and faith alone we obey and do not yell at someone and take the insult instead.

And the Fruit grows, and it gets easier with time.

There is a reason why the Bible says that without faith it is impossible to please God.

Thanks,
In Christ,
Ed

I think burried in these pages somewhere someone compared living the Christian life to that of autopilot. I think it is a very fitting illustration. The Holy Spirit is the Autopilot. Just much better.

 

[Frogster]

I think this verse really shows subjectivity also, and what Pauil was saying.

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

 

[razeontherock]

I've employed the verse in response to I John 3:4 to show the error being promoted with the last half of the verse. And of course both are limited to spiritual things.

Can you specify what error you're referring to?

 

[listed]

Can you specify what error you're referring to?

The definition that sin is only the violation of the law. Please comapre -

for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

with - for sin is the transgression of the law.

How and why is the immediate above used here on CF?

Why is the frist half of the verse ignored by those same folks?

4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

It simply doesn't all sin is a transgression of the law.

Why will anyone not secure eternal life (salvation)? What did Jesus say about it? (hint Jn 10:1; 14:6) Can anyone secure or maintain salvation by the law? Before answering consider if willing sin will enter the pearly gates. One won't get in by, through or because of law observance. I am talking about the covenant made with the COI.

 

[New_Wineskin]

I think this verse really shows subjectivity also, and what Pauil was saying.

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

That sentence should be a big thorn in the butt for all of the legalists . They want everyone to observe all same laws - clones , if you will . There are others that have a hard time with everyone haiving their own interpretations .

This should be the end of it . Why isn't it ?

 

[Frogster]

That sentence should be a big thorn in the butt for all of the legalists . They want everyone to observe all same laws - clones , if you will . There are others that have a hard time with everyone haiving their own interpretations .

This should be the end of it . Why isn't it ?

thel flesh seek to entangle others, in the smallness of it's own chains.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That sentence should be a big thorn in the butt for all of the legalists . They want everyone to observe all same laws - clones , if you will . There are others that have a hard time with everyone haiving their own interpretations .

This should be the end of it . Why isn't it ?

I feel like I am wading thru thorns everytime I enter GT

Rotherham) Hebrews 6:8 But should it be bringing forth thorns and briars, it is disapproved and unto cursing nigh,--whose end is for burning.

http://www.christianforums.com/t6926692/#post44230758
Thorn in Paul's side

 

[razeontherock]

I love those new pics in your tagline, LLoJ! The 3 of those really go together well ...