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Romans 14:14,15 Did Paul declare all foods clean?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by LittleLambofJesus, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. I am not sure

  4. Other

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. 1whirlwind

    1whirlwind Senior Member

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    Yes....I saw that movie. There are also verses in the Bible about dining on children. Because that is written, in your opinion God has approved of cannibalism?


    If you accept the following with your present understanding...without seeing what it really tells us, then.....cannibalism is acceptable to God.

    Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
    .
     
  2. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Some non-Christian religions and atheists view the Christians' view of the "Real Presence" in the eucharist as a type of "cannibalism", since it symbolizes the real body and blood of Jesus.
    A little absurb of course.

    Real Presence - Does it Mean Cannibalism? | Called to Communion

    <snip>.......The Jewish dietary laws specified which meats were edible: vegetarian beasts with split hoofs, sea creatures having both fins and scales, and various particular birds and insects. Anything else was de facto unclean. The laws also included a prohibition against eating blood and fat.

    In a recent discussion, a Memorialist accused the Catholic Church of violating the Jewish dietary laws by her doctrine of Real Presence since, in his mind, it amounts to cannibalism.
    But is this doctrine, which most Christians have always held in some form, a violation of the Torah? Let&#8217;s look at Mark&#8217;s gospel for some helpful clues. In Mark 7:15 Jesus says, &#8220;Nothing outside a man can make him &#8216;unclean&#8217; by going into him.&#8221; In verse 19, Jesus gives the reason and Mark explains the full implication of this radical statement, &#8220;&#8216;For it doesn&#8217;t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.&#8217; In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.&#8221;
     
  3. Frogster

    Frogster Galatians is the best!

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    wow! great work as usual, rock on lambster!:thumbsup:
     
  4. Frogster

    Frogster Galatians is the best!

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    i was just joking about eating others, but refute this verse please. if it moves, shoot-n-eat.:p

    Genesis 9:3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything
     
  5. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    As this wise man once said concerning translations of the book of Daniel:

    http://www.awitness.org/bible.html

    False prophets in Daniel in the Bible. Revived Roman Empire, Beast of the Apocalypse of Mark, and Antiochus the Selucid Greek

    <snip>.........As I have noticed while comparing translations of different verses in the Bible, even the most literal translations can suddenly depart from literalism, perhaps visit the Greek Septuagint and abandon the Hebrew translation for a single verse, whenever some highly cherished doctrine might be threatened by a truly literal translation.
    Rule of thumb: you should never, ever rely exclusively on one single translation.)

    http://www.christianforums.com/t7525115/#post56476716
    ENDING OF THE WORLD TWICE
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2011
  6. Frogster

    Frogster Galatians is the best!

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    I just bought the house next door to you, so we can be goombas..:blush:
    just think, frogster all day!:D

    we can have a pork roast.
     
  7. 1whirlwind

    1whirlwind Senior Member

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    Using "food" in the place of "meat" can throw the understanding off.

    What is "meat?"

    John 4:34-35 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of Him that sent Me, and to finish His work. Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
    That too is our meat...to do the will of Him that sent us. Everything that lives and moves is the work before us. That is our labour in this life.


    John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for Him hath God the Father sealed.



    .
     
  8. Heavens

    Heavens Guest

    +0
    That which God has cleansed, call not thou unclean;

    (Act 10:13)
    And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
    (Act 10:14) But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
    (Act 10:15) And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

    God told Peter three times... in case he didn't hear him the first two times I guess lol.
     
  9. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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  10. Frogster

    Frogster Galatians is the best!

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    if it moves, it would qualify as meat, he did mention plants, that generally stay planted.

    Does he say there to exclude certain moving creatures?;)
     
  11. Frogster

    Frogster Galatians is the best!

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    :thumbsup:
    the sheet had funky creatures on it.:D
     
  12. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    If I saw a plant get up and start walking or crawling around on the ground, not sure if I would want to eat it or not as I would probably be dead of a heart attack if I did see that :D

    Interesting that these 2 bible versions render the hebrew word #0402 differently

    Young) Genesis 9:3 Every creeping thing that is alive, to you it is for food/0402 'oklah; as the green herb I have given to you the whole;

    KJV) Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat/0402 'oklah for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

    Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
    Strong's Number H402 matches the Hebrew &#1488;&#1464;&#1499;&#1456;&#1500;&#1464;&#1492; ('oklah), which occurs 18 times in 18 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV
    AV &#8212; meat 8, devour 3, fuel 3, eat 2, consume 1, food 1

    402 'oklah ok-law' feminine of 401; food:--consume, devour, eat, food, meat.
     
  13. Deut 5:29

    Deut 5:29 Well-Known Member

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    And Peter didn't eat any of them. Clue.
    Not that it will help.
     
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    I seem to recall my bro Ezekiel mentioning the same thing :)

    http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

    [Rotherham] Ezekiel 4:13 Then said Yahweh, "In like manner shall the sons of Israel eat their bread defiled,--among the nations whither I will drive them."
    14 Then said I "Ah! My Lord Yahweh, behold!
    my person hath not been defiled, neither of what hath died of itself nor of what hath been torn in pieces have I eaten from my youthful days even unto now, neither hath come into my mouth the flesh of a foul thing.
    15 So then He said unto me "see, I have granted thee cows dung/06832 [email protected]` for mans dung/01561 gelel,--and thou shalt prepare thy bread thereupon".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2011
  15. Heavens

    Heavens Guest

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    It helps to know that it was a difficult lesson for Peter, yes. No one would doubt that Deut. Peter was quite hard headed about it for sure.

    That is why God had to repeat Himself three times, so it would sink in to Peter. Yet later, we read it really hadn't yet sunk in so Paul totally reprimanded Peter;

    (Gal 2:11) But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
    (Gal 2:12) For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
    (Gal 2:13) And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

    So let's not be in error as Peter, in siding with those who refuse to eat what the Lord has cleansed.
     
  16. cyberlizard

    cyberlizard the electric lizard returns

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    like I have said, commentators do not interest me. You are always so up on pushing scripture only, now why not put your money where your mouth is, and accept the fact that in the Greek, there is no 'thus he declared'... regardless of what bible version you have (unless you can show me otherwise).


    a good way of rendering the verse is quite crude....

    it doesn't enter his heart (where the will and emotions reside), but into his stomach and from there into the toilet and sewer, in this manner, the body expels food.
     
  17. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Isn't it the heart that the LORD searches :confused:

    Jeremiah 17:10 I YHVH, searching heart, examining the affections/kidneys/ 03629 kilyah and giving to man ways of him, as fruit of his doings.
    [Reve 2:23]

    Reve 2:23 And the offspring of her I shall be killing in death,
    and shall be knowing all the Outcalleds that I am the One searching kidneys/reigns/nefrouV <3510> and hearts and I shall be giving to Ye each according to the works of Ye.
    [Jeremiah 17:10]

    Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series

    The church in Thyatira has a longer message delivered to it from Jesus Christ than any of the seven churches............
     
  18. jsimms615

    jsimms615 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Based on what Jesus said in Matthew 15:11, 17-20 I would say that it was Jesus who declared all food clean and not Paul.
     
  19. cyberlizard

    cyberlizard the electric lizard returns

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    and yet he berates the Pharisees for placing tradition above the commandments which he tells them to keep.

    what a hypocrite!!!



    Steve
     
  20. Brak

    Brak Newbie

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    Yeah, I'm not sure how to vote. God already declared all foods clean back in Acts. It was not for Paul to declare either way.
     
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