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Roman Catholicism Leads To Hell

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Rising_Suns, Sep 15, 2002.

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  1. Rising_Suns

    Rising_Suns 'Christ's desolate heart is in need of comfort'

    Did I catch your attention? Good, cause this guys article caught mine too. I actually met him at the Harvest Crusade. He was outside, protesting against Greg Laurie and the Harvest Crusade. He also claims that James Dobson, John McArthur, and Billy Graham are all false teachers, along with many other people. He's a fundamentalist of course, but listen to this article he writes about Catholicsm. I'm curious to hear your thoughts. Please, stay calm and collect. Lets not get fired up, for we shall try to understand and help the situation as best we can. This guy is reaching thousands of people.

    "I. Deceiving Spirits and Doctrines of Demons

    Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. (1 Timothy 4:1-3)

    In this text that describes those who have departed from the faith and given heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, there are only two teachings given ("the forbidding to marry" and "to abstain from foods") by which to identify the ones to whom this text applies. The Roman Catholic Church practices both identifying marks.

    A. The Forbidding To Marry

    In the official Catechism of the Catholic Church (Libreria Editrice Vaticana, copyright 1994, Ignatius Press, San Francisco, CA) on page 395 under #1580, speaking in the context of "priests" it states:

    In the East as in the West a man who has already received the sacrament of Holy Orders can no longer marry.

    It is well known that both priests and nuns are forbidden to marry. Yet, Scripture condemns such a practice in 1 Timothy 4 and identifies those who practice this as ungodly wicked people (1 Timothy 4:1-3). Despite this clear declaration of the Word of God, Catholic Answers (a Catholic apologetic ministry, P. O. Box 199000, San Diego, CA 92159; 619-387-7200; www.catholic.com has produced a tract entitled "Celibacy and the Priesthood" in which they attempt to justify the unholy ways of the Catholic Church. In this tract, they write, ". . . the Catholic Church does not forbid anyone to marry." But then, "speaking lies in hypocrisy" (1 Timothy 4:2) in the next paragraph they state,

    It is true that Catholic priests in the West may not be married, but no one is obliged to become a priest.

    Marriage is not forbidden to them as human beings, but as priests.

    It is still forbidden! 1 Timothy 4:3 simply says, "forbidding to marry", not "forbidding to marry as human beings." Earlier (in the first paragraph of the tract) they admit (speaking in the context of the "Eastern Rites"),

    Once ordained, though, an unmarried priest may not marry, and a married priest, if widowed, may not remarry.

    B. To Abstain From Foods

    Jovian P. Lang, OFM, in his book entitled Dictionary of the Liturgy (copyright 1989, Catholic book publishing Co. N.Y.) on page 11 writes under "Abstinence,"

    Refraining from eating meat or food prepared with meat on certain days as commanded by the church, to remind us of Jesus' redeeming Death (on a Friday), to prepare for the celebration of certain feasts, to win heavenly graces, and to practice the virtue of penance (to atone for sin and for help in the firm purpose of amendment). "Days of abstinence" in the United States include Ash Wednesday, Good Friday and Fridays of Lent." On other Fridays of the year, all are exhorted to perform acts of devotion, self-denial, and charity in the spirit of piety and penance, and particularly for peace; abstinence from meat is especially recommended but under no obligation by law. Canon Law for the world prescribes abstinence on all Fridays (Canon 1251).

    Mr. Lang acknowledges here that the Catholic Church does command to "abstain from foods" (1 Timothy 4:3). Catholic "Canon Law" (the official law of the Catholic Church) makes such a prohibition.

    Canon 1251 - Abstinence from eating meat or another food according to the prescriptions of the conference of bishops is to be observed on Fridays throughout the year unless they are solemnities; abstinence and fast are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and on the Friday of the Passion and Death of Our Lord Jesus Christ. (The Code Of Canon Law: A Text And Commentary, p. 854, copyright 1985 by the Canon Law Society of America, published by Paulist Press, Mahwah, N. J.)

    Catholics are "bound" by this law of abstinence ("Canon 1252 - All persons who have completed their fourteenth year are bound by the law of abstinence;" ibid., p. 855). In other words, they are commanded to not eat meat ("or another food") on certain days. Worldwide, these days include Ash Wednesday, Fridays of Lent, Good Friday, and every other Friday of the year. For those in the United States, every Friday of the year is no longer obligatory.

    The National Conference of Catholic Bishops in their pastoral statement of November 18, 1966 determined the following:

    Catholics in the United States are obliged to abstain from the eating of meat on Ash Wednesday and on all Fridays during the season of Lent. They are also obliged to fast on Ash Wednesday and on Good Friday. Self-imposed observance of fasting on all weekdays of Lent is strongly recommended. Abstinence from flesh meat on all Fridays of the year is especially recommended to individuals and to the Catholic community as a whole. (ibid., p. 855)

    II. A False Gospel

    Besides rejecting the gospel of God (Romans 9:6-22) in regards to predestination ("God predestines no one to hell;" CCC, p. 270, #1037), the Catholic Church has created their own gospel of "sacraments." In this also they speak lies in hypocrisy (1 Timothy 4:2). They deem Muslims as having salvation (see below), but Muslims do not practice these sacraments. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) on page 292 under #1129 the following is written:

    The Church affirms that for all believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. (italics in original)

    What are these "sacraments" that are necessary for salvation?

    There are seven sacraments in the Church: Baptism, Confirmation or Chrismation, Eucharist, Penance, Anointing of the Sick, Holy Orders, and Matrimony. (CCC, p. 289, #1113; see also p. 311, #1210)

    This is the tradition of men (Matthew 15: 8-9; Colossians 2:8-10), not the doctrine of Christ (2 John 9). Scripture nowhere teaches any such sacraments necessary for salvation. What is necessary for salvation is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (the Word, John 1:1; Revelation 19:13). As John 3:36 says,

    He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. (John 3:36)

    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Rising_Suns

    Rising_Suns 'Christ's desolate heart is in need of comfort'

    III. A False Christ

    One of the above "sacraments" "necessary for salvation" is the Eucharist, a false Jesus.

    In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist "the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained." (italics in original, CCC, p. 346, #1374)

    In other words, the bread literally becomes Jesus' body and the wine literally becomes his blood.

    It is by the conversion of the bread and wine into Christ's body and blood that Christ becomes present in this sacrament. (CCC, p. 346, #1375)

    At the heart of the Eucharist celebration are the bread and wine that, by the words of Christ and the invocation of the Holy Spirit, become Christ's Body and Blood. (CCC, p. 336, #1333)

    The signs of bread and wine become, in a way surpassing understanding, the Body and Blood of Christ; (CCC, p. 336, #1333)

    Only validly ordained priests can preside at the Eucharist and consecrate the bread and the wine so that they become the Body and Blood of the Lord. (CCC, p. 355, #1411)

    The Catholics call this "transubstantiation" (CCC, p. 347, #1376), and claim it is the "true Body" and "true Blood" of Christ.

    "That in this sacrament are the true Body of Christ and his true Blood is something that 'cannot be apprehended by the senses,' says St. Thomas, 'but only by faith, . . . (CCC, p. 348, #1381)

    What is meant by the "true Body" and "true Blood" of Christ? The same literal body and blood that was hung on the cross some 2000 years ago!

    In the Eucharist Christ gives us the very body which he gave up for us on the cross, the very blood which he "poured out for man for the forgiveness of sins." (CCC, p. 344, #1365)

    The Eucharist is most important in the life of the Church because it is Jesus Christ. It is the incarnation continued in space and time. (Question and Answer Catholic Catechism, question 1212, p. 244, by John A. Hardon, copyright 1981)

    Catholic Answers goes so far as to say,

    After the consecration of the bread and wine, no bread or wine remains on the altar. Only Jesus himself, under the appearance of bread and wine, remains. (Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth, p. 17)

    As should be seen from the above, the wafer and the wine is the Catholic Jesus. And this Catholic Jesus (a piece of bread and some wine) is worshipped. This is idolatry. God is not a piece of bread (Isaiah 46:5). Bread should not be worshipped (Deuteronomy 5:7). Catholics believe otherwise.

    Is Jesus Christ present in the Eucharist as long as the species remain? Yes, Jesus Christ is present in the Eucharist as long as the species remain. Therefore, we worship the Blessed Sacrament as we would worship the person of Jesus Himself. (Question and Answer Catholic Catechism, question 1227, p. 246-247, John A. Hardon)

    Worship of the Eucharist. In the liturgy of the Mass we express our faith in the real presence of Christ under the species of bread and wine by, among other ways, genuflecting or bowing deeply as a sign of adoration of the Lord. (CCC, p. 347, #1378)

    The Church and the world have a great need for Eucharistic worship. Jesus awaits us in this sacrament of love. Let us not refuse the time to go to meet him in adoration, . . . (CCC, p. 348, #1380)

    This false god and false Christ is the result of some serious twisting (2 Peter 3:16) and adding (Proverbs 30:5-6) to the words of Christ. In 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 Paul wrote,

    For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me." In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes.

    This bread and "drink" is for "remembrance", not "substantial presence" as the CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church) proclaims.

    . . . it is a substantial presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present. (CCC, p. 346, #1374)

    Scripture nowhere says what the Catholics teach. Nowhere does the Word of God say anything about the bread (or wine) becoming anything. In fact, in John 6:53 where Jesus said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you," even here, Jesus lets us know He is not speaking of His literal body and blood.

    It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. (John 6:63; see also Matthew 4:4)

    Nonetheless, this Eucharistic worship (worship of a piece of bread) is the centerpiece of the Catholic way.

    The Eucharist is the heart and summit of the Church's life, . . . (CCC, p. 355, #1407)

    In brief, the Eucharist is the sum and summary of our faith: "Our way of thinking is attuned to the Eucharist, and the Eucharist in turn confirms our way of thinking." (CCC, p. 334, #1327)

    Furthermore, in the celebration of this Eucharist (the Mass), the Catholic false Christ is continually offered up as a sacrifice.

    The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, . . . (CCC, p. 344, #1366)

    The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the alter of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner." (CCC, p. 344, #1367)

    This is completely contrary to Hebrews 7:26-27; 9:25-28; and 10:11-14.

    Moreover, according to Catholics, forgiveness of sins (for both the living and the dead) comes through this false Christ (the Eucharist) and this false sacrifice (the Mass).

    Holy Communion separates us from sin. The body of Christ we receive in Holy Communion is "given up for us," and the blood we drink "shed for the many for the forgiveness of sins." For this reason the Eucharist cannot unite us to Christ without at the same time cleansing us from past sins and preserving us from future sins: (CCC, p. 351, #1393)

    The Eucharist sacrifice is also offered for the faithful departed who "have died in Christ but are not yet wholly purified," (CCC, p. 345, #1371)

    This is in opposition to Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus," Hebrews 9:12, ". . . with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption", and Hebrews 10:14, "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified."
  3. Rising_Suns

    Rising_Suns 'Christ's desolate heart is in need of comfort'

    IV. Idolatry

    Besides the idolatry of a false god/Christ (the Catholic god being reduced to a piece of bread), Catholicism is further entrenched in idolatry in the veneration of the saints. Their idolatry is found both in giving homage to images (idols), and praying to angels or "saints" (many of whom are Catholic people who have died in their sins, thus they are praying to dead people who are presently burning in hell, e.g. Luke 16:19-31).

    A. Prayer To Saints

    Prayer is a form of worship. Biblically, it is either wrongfully used in the worship of false gods (idols, e.g. Isaiah 44:17; 45:20) or the worship of the one true God (directly to Him, e.g. Psalm 17). Therefore, despite the Catholic denial that they are worshipping those they are praying to (angels and saints), they are nonetheless worshipping them.

    In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, speaking in the context of the saints it says,

    "We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world." (p. 645, #2683).

    Catholic Answers writes,

    Our prayer to the saints in heaven, asking for their prayers for us, and their intercession with the Father do not undermine Christ's role as sole Mediator (1 Timothy 2:5). (Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth, p. 21)

    Here again, they speak lies in hypocrisy (1 Timothy 4:2). Yes it does "undermine Christ's role as sole Mediator." It not only makes the saints into gods (only a god could hear and respond to untold thousands throughout the world), but it completely denies that "there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5). Prayers to the saints to make "intercession" creates many mediators (intercessors) in the heavens between God and men, which the Bible nowhere teaches. In truth, for those who follow the true Christ, we have the Son of God Himself. We need (nor want) no other (Ephesians 1:3; Colossians 2:8-10; 2 Peter 1:3).

    Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. (Hebrews 7:25; Romans 8:34)

    B. Images

    The official Catholic teaching on images reads as follows:

    2131 Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new "economy" of images.

    2132 The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it." The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:

    Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is. (CCC, 516-517; see also p. 299-300 under "Holy Images")

    Indeed, they are "speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron" (1 Timothy 4:2). What is described above is classic idolatry. God strictly forbade the Israelites from doing this exact thing (i.e. making an image that would represent Himself or something else and paying homage to it).

    Take careful heed to yourselves, for you saw no form when the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of any figure: the likeness of male or female, (Deuteronomy 4:15-16).

    'You shall not make for yourself a carved image-any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, (Deuteronomy 5:8-9).

    When Aaron made a golden calf for the Israelites, the golden calf represented Yahweh (translated, "the LORD" in the NKJV), the true God. The Israelites identified this golden calf as the God who brought them out of the land of Egypt (Exodus 32:4), which was Yahweh (Exodus 3:14-17). "And Aaron made a proclamation and said, "Tomorrow is a feast to the LORD." (Exodus 32:5). God's response to the Israelites idolatry was severe anger (Exodus 32:7-35).

    C. Mary Worship

    "The Churches devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship." (CCC, p. 253, #971)

    Although Catholics may deny they worship Mary, they nonetheless do worship her (1 Timothy 4:2). And, being that she is not God, this is therefore idolatry (worship of someone or something other than God, Deuteronomy 5:7; Psalm 96:5) and demonic (Leviticus 17:7; Deuteronomy 32:17; 2 Chronicles 11:15; Psalm 106:37; 1 Corinthians 10:20-21; Revelation 9:20). The Present Pope (the head of the Catholic Church) epitomizes this Mary worship. In the book, Crossing The Threshold Of Hope, by "His Holiness John Paul II", the chapter entitled, "The Mother of God" begins and ends with these two paragraphs.

    The renewal of Marian Theology and devotion - in continuity with Catholic tradition - is another distinctive characteristic of the teaching and pastoral activity of John Paul II. Totus Tuus ("I am completely yours, O Mary") is the motto you chose for your papacy. (p. 212)

    I think what I have said sufficiently explains the Marian devotion of the present Pope and, above all, his attitude of total abandonment to Mary - his Totus Tuus. (p. 215)

    Mary is given the title of "Advocate" (CCC, p. 252, #969), a title only Christ is given in Scripture (1 John 2:1), and she is stated to be one who not only intercedes, but also brings "gifts of eternal salvation" (ibid.). Acts 4:12 says,

    Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

    What is this name? It is Jesus Christ of Nazareth (Acts 4:10; Philippians 2:9-11), not Mary (Mark 3:31-35; Luke 11:27-28).

    V. [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ing Lies

    In addition to the [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ing lies already spelled out, other heresies (Galatians 5:20) can be found throughout Catholic doctrine on a variety of subjects. A few examples are given below.

    A. "Father"

    Jesus said, "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9) The Catholic Church completely refuses to obey Christ's command. Besides calling the Pope "the Holy Father" (e.g. Crossing The Threshold Of Hope, p. v), it is well known among Catholics and non-Catholics that Catholic priests are called by the name of "Father." Instead of promoting the fear of God (Isaiah 66:2), this blatant disregard for the words of Christ leads the masses to repudiate His Words. If they disregard the Word of God, they cannot be saved (James 1:21).

    B. Homosexuals

    Catholics graphically turn the grace of God into lewdness (Jude 4) in their teaching on homosexuality.

    The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. (CCC, p. 566, #2358)

    There is no such thing as a Christian homosexual ("if they are Christians"). 1 Corinthians 6:11 says, "and such were some of you", not "such are some of you." (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

    C. Infant Baptism

    The Catholic Church teaches that infants become children of God once they are baptized. This is a hellish and [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ing lie. This encourages a trust in a ritual rather than a trust (an on going faith, 1 Corinthians 15:2; Hebrews 3:14) in the living Savior for re-birth (Romans 3:21-22; 1 Peter 1:3-5; 3:21).

    The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth. (CCC, p. 319, #1250)

    Infant baptismal regeneration (the above quote) is nowhere taught in the Word of God. Becoming a child of God takes an act of God (John 1:12-13; 3:3). As the Jews of old, Catholics teach "as doctrines the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:9).
  4. Rising_Suns

    Rising_Suns 'Christ's desolate heart is in need of comfort'

    D. Muslims

    The Churches relationship with Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." (CCC, p. 223, #841)

    Muslims are in a false religion (Islam) that believes Jesus was created from dust (see the Quran, Surah 3:59; see also John 1:3; Colossians 1:16; Genesis 1:1) and rejects the concept that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for all mankind (Surah 4:157, 171; 5:17; 9:30; John 3:16; 1 Timothy 2:6). I John 2:23 says, "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also." The Catholic attributes salvation to the Muslims. This denies the words of Christ (John 14:6), and makes the Catholic way very broad (Matthew 7:13-14; Luke 13:24). They accept (as saved) even those who reject the Son of God (1 John 5:10).

    E. Purgatory

    Contrary to Luke 16:19-31; Colossians 2:13-14; and 1 John 1:7 & 9, the Catholic Church teaches that there is a temporary place of suffering (due to a lack of a complete cleansing of sin) for those who die "in Christ."

    All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. (CCC, p. 268, #1030)

    The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ed. (CCC, p. 268, #1031)

    Purgatory is a state or condition on which the souls of the just, who die with the stains of sins, are cleansed before they are admitted to heaven. (Question and Answer Catholic Catechism, p. 82, Question 316)

    Stains of sin means the temporal punishment still due to venial or forgiven mortal sins. If the punishment has not been satisfied before death, a person must suffer in purgatory to pay this debt which is owed to the divine Majesty. (ibid., Question 317)

    The sufferings of purgatory are more intense than any suffering on earth. (ibid., Question 320)

    Catholics attempt to justify this teaching, which is nowhere taught in the Word of God, with 1 Corinthians 3:15. But, here one's "work" is being burned, not the person. Plus, sin is not in view, but rather attempts in building the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 3:12-17).

    The Catholic's fable of purgatory rejects true faith (and trust) in God's forgiveness (Psalm 103:11-18). Hebrews 4:11 says, "Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest." Catholics do not enter His rest (Hebrews 4:9-10; 1 Peter 1:13), because they render not the blood of Christ sufficient to completely cleanse them from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). A supposed purgatory awaits them for a final cleansing. For those whose faith is in the finished work of Christ (John 19:30), the Lord Jesus "has perfected forever those who are being sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14)

    F. Suicide

    Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

    We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives. (CCC, p. 550, #2282 & 2283)

    This goes directly against Matthew 24:13; John 15:1-6; Romans 11:22; 1 Corinthians 15:2; Colossians 1:23; Hebrews 3:6, 14; 12:25; and 1 John 5:4. Committing suicide is not enduring to the end (Matthew 24:13). It is not abiding in Christ (John 15:1-6). It is not continuing in His goodness (Romans 11:22). It is not holding fast the word (1 Corinthians 15:2). It is definitely being moved away from the hope of the gospel (Colossians 1:13). It is not holding fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end (Hebrews 3:6). It is not holding the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end (Hebrews 3:14). It is refusing and turning away from Him who speaks from heaven (Hebrews 12:25). And, it is not overcoming the world (1 John 5:4), but rather being overcome by the world and the devil (1 Peter 5:8; 1 John 5:18).

    Besides being a comforting lie for those still living, this Catholic teaching on suicide opens wide the door of death and Hades (Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:11-15) to those in despair. This is certainly a [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ing lie.

    VI. Ignorance

    Many Catholics claim ignorance (and are often ignorant) of what their Catholic Church teaches. This is not to their advantage as they may think. Ignorance is not an asset, but a deficit, as Ephesians 4:17-18 illustrates.

    This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;

    What alienates the ungodly Gentiles from the life of God? It is "the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart." Catholics are blind. Some to their own religion, and all to the light of the glory of the gospel of Christ (2 Corinthians 4:4). Their only hope is to repent from not loving the truth, and to turn to the Truth, Christ, the Word of God, i.e. the Scripture (Hebrews 4:12-13).

    a true church, P. O. Box 797, Lake Hughes, CA 93532


  5. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    I've seen these people! They were protesting in front of my church last summer, even though we're Protestant. They told us that God hated us and would kill us because we used James Dobson's materials, our pastor was successful, and 100 other things.

    Here's some info on the "a true church" cult from some Protestant sources who have had more than a few encounters with it:

    (Yes, I know that is John MacArthur's site, however it has a good background article and refutation at the link of Darwin Fish (the cult leader) and the God's Word Fellowship/a true church cult. 

  6. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    Well, I did a bunch of *scroll, scroll, scroll*, heard a bunch of "blah, blah, blah", and made a bunch of "HAHAHA!!!". :D

    But on a serious note... it's somewhat scary, because there are actually some people out there that believe this guy! :eek:
  7. Rising_Suns

    Rising_Suns 'Christ's desolate heart is in need of comfort'

    yeah, his name is Darwin Fish, lol. He's actually a pretty nice guy if you talk to him, but if your arguments are based on scripture alone, you will hit brick walls with him. He knows the bible like the back of his hand and bases his entire faith and knowledge of God soley on the bible and nothing else.
  8. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    And of course, the Holy Spirit has led him to the ONE TRUE ONLY interpretation of Scripture.

    Yanno, it would be a nice change of pace if someone could come up with a NEW argument against Catholicism. It's the same old garbage, recycled. Or is it regurgitated?

    Whatever it is, it's still sickening.

  9. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

    United States
    "Nothing else" being the operative phrase, of course.

    If he knew anything else, like say some history and 1st-century cultural sociology, he'd know that those verses of Scripture about "forbidding to marry" and "abstaining from meats" were aimed at the Gnostics, not the Catholics.
  10. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    Its just sad. All I feel is sorrow when I read stuff like this...ok, actually to be honest I feel rage first, but then just sorrow.

  11. Lynn

    Lynn Veteran

    You know, the thing that I find so utterly sad about this fella and so many others like him is that they seem to have forgotten the greatest commandment that Christ gave us....."Love one another as I have loved you".
    Christ's love doesn't belittle us, tear us down, try to set one person against another. He came to unite us, to bring us the message of God's abiding love for us, and to free us.
    Instead of the freedom of God's love, these folks seem to be trying to shackle us to a rigid, unforgiving set of rules and regulations, not to mention intolerance and downright hatred for others beliefs. Sounds a lot like the pharisees to me.

    just my $.01 (probably not worth $.02!)

  12. niwde

    niwde Member

    say whatever they want,bunch of christian"taliban"
    y dun they read 2 peter 3:15-16
    a really papal words guided by the holy spirit

  13. Lynn

    Lynn Veteran

    Hey, what do ya know......that was post #200!



  14. Smilin

    Smilin Spirit of the Wolf


    ANOTHER thing to add to my "you're going to hell for_____ <<< fill in the blank" list...
  15. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

    That's really depressing.
  16. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    To Seebs:

    No foolin'!! That's why a lot of Catholic Apologists tend to get huffy at times.

    I was flabbergasted when I found out that the Southern Baptists actually promote an evangelistic MINISTRY targeting Catholics.

    To me, that would be like heading to Arkansas and trying to convince those people to join the United States.

  17. jukesk9

    jukesk9 Dixie Whistlin' Papist

    (typing from an undisclosed location in hostile Yankee territory whilst on vacation)

    "They kinda talk funny up here."--St. Hawgustine
  18. KC Catholic

    KC Catholic Everybody's gone surfin'...Surfin' U.S.A

    Congrats! I just cleared 2000!


    'Course VOW puts us all to shame with 4000+ posts.

  19. isshinwhat

    isshinwhat Pro Deo et Patria

    Eastern Orthodox
    Stay low, and if a man carrying a carpet bag asks for a ride home... say no...
  20. VOW

    VOW Moderator


    I only need 324 more to make 5K!

    /me massages cramps from fingers from typing...

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