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Roman Catholic teachings denounced by Orthodox groups?

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by BobRyan, Sep 28, 2021.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    My point was that Luther had some pretty good statements about the origin of the Sabbath and its significance.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    Try that as a Catholic on Saturday morning and let us know how it turns out
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    scripture counts
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    It depends on what the quote says - in my quote of Luther his statement is clear "the 7th day" not the "first day" as the Sabbath --- Luther never claimed that Sunday was the 7th day of creation week.

    You need to point to a detail. A specific quote or statement that you believe to be in error.

    details matter.
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    1. Paul never claimed to "break bread every day".
    2. Having a one-time occasion for it is not the same as having an actual worship service or "breaking bread" statement for "every week-day-1" in scripture.
    3. I don't think this issue comes up in the Orthodox vs Lutheran "you must recant" liturgy mentioned in the OP
     
  6. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If only you could quote me saying this. Seems to be your words, not mine. I am starting to see a pattern here.


    You seem to be under the impression that no one can understand scriptures unless the church tells you what they mean. I prefer to go by what the Bible teaches, which the Bible tells us that the Holy Spirit can teach us ALL THINGS- do you not believe this? John 14:26, 1 John 2:27

    There is no prerequisite to be an ordained minister or an apostle to discuss scripture on CF. Maybe you can point out that forum rule.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
  7. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Something you might want to consider.
    God's definition of the Sabbath is the seventh day. God not only spoke this He wrote it with His own finger.

    Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

    The week started from Creation. God worked six days and rested the seventh day and than sanctified and blessed the seventh day. God wants us to keep holy the same day He keeps holy.

    Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and mad


    Only God can bless a day and make it holy so substituting it on a different day does not make that day holy or blessed or obeying the commandment that God gave us. When we obey the commandment as it is written, we are obeying the authority of God and not the authority of man. Jesus warns us about this scenario, obeying God's commandments over traditions. Matthew 15:3-9.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
  8. Thatgirloncfforums

    Thatgirloncfforums Well-Known Member

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    I use to attend during the weekdays (typically Tuesday) and on Sunday. I was corrected about Saturday fulfilling my obligation.
     
  9. Thatgirloncfforums

    Thatgirloncfforums Well-Known Member

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    You are restricting the term Sabbath in a way Luther did not. Luther never would agree with you that Scripture restricts the 7th day Sabbath to Saturday.
     
  10. Thatgirloncfforums

    Thatgirloncfforums Well-Known Member

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    Scripture says that the Sabbath is not restricted to Saturday. So why are you restricting it?
     
  11. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It would be helpful if could provide a scripture reference to prove your point.
     
  12. Thatgirloncfforums

    Thatgirloncfforums Well-Known Member

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    Col 2:16
     
  13. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Obvious Luther was contemplating his thoughts about the Ten Commandments according to his quote

    I wonder exceedingly how it came to be imputed to me that I should reject the law of Ten Commandments...Whosoever abrogates the law must of necessity abrogate sin also.
    —MARTIN LUTHER, Spiritual Antichrist, pages 71, 72.
     
  14. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Lets break this down....

    Colossian 2:16 does not say "Scripture says that the Sabbath is not restricted to Saturday."

    In order to get the proper context of Colossians 2:16 you need to start with 2:14
    14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
    and 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    It is referring to the ordinance that is contrary. God's seventh day Sabbath is holy and blessed and not burdensome 1 John 5:3 so it's not talking about the Sabbath commandment here. The Sabbath is a commandment and not an ordinance, so it is definitely not referring to the seventh day Sabbath. What is an ordinance and is in context of food and drink are the annual sabbath(s) feasts days found in Lev 23 that is an ordinance in the law of Moses and is part of the sacrificial system that ended (Hebrews 10) with Christ as our perfect sacrifice. The seventh day Sabbath points backward "Remember" the Sabbath day Exodus 20:8-11 to Genesis 2:1-3 before there was sin. The Sabbath will be the Lords day of worship as promised by God Exodus 31:16 for eternity after sin ends Isaiah 66:23

    This is not about who is right or who is wrong it is about the Truth. You are free to believe what you want, but there is only one Truth and one Gospel. God wrote a covenant of Ten, not nine Exodus 34:28 and you cannot separate God's seventh day Sabbath from God, because God deemed this His holy day from the very beginning Genesis 2:1-3 before sin and will continue for eternity after sin Isaiah 66:23 as promised by God the Sabbath is a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16.
     
  15. Thatgirloncfforums

    Thatgirloncfforums Well-Known Member

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    For everyone:

    Colossians 2
    1 I want you to know how hard I am contending for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally. 2 My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments. 5 For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how disciplined you are and how firm your faith in Christ is.

    Spiritual Fullness in Christ
    6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7 rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

    8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.

    9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

    13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

    Freedom From Human Rules
    16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

    20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
     
  16. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Which does not say this:
    “Scripture says that the Sabbath is not restricted to Saturday.”

    You understand there is more than one Sabbath in the Bible, right? There is the seventh day Sabbath that is part of a Covenant of Ten that God personally wrote and stored in the Most Holy of God’s Temple and the annual sabbath(s) feast day. God’s laws reflect the very character of God, so definitely not contrary to us nor an ordinance. The 4th commandment is a commandment, not an ordinance. The other sabbath(s) is an ordinance and is about food and drink which is what this scripture is referencing not the Holy day of the Lord thy God that continues forever Isaiah 66:23.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
  17. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    MOD HAT ON

    [​IMG]

    MOD HAT OFF
     
  18. concretecamper

    concretecamper Member of His Church

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    Sola Scriptura food fight I see.
     
  19. Thatgirloncfforums

    Thatgirloncfforums Well-Known Member

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    Haha! Baby, if this continues, I'm coming home to Rome!
    Your timing was perfect. It really cheers me up.
     
  20. concretecamper

    concretecamper Member of His Church

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    after you've been on this forum awhile, you'll see these arguments amongst Sola Scriptura people erupt all the time. Sola Scriptura really mean "only what I think scripture means". It really is amusing to watch.
     
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