Rom 1:26,27 Homosexuality, a Depraved Behavior

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Homosexuality, a Depraved Behavior

Rom 1:26,27 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Homosexuality is a product of a depraved mind and a depraved heart which are likewise a product of not glorifying God as God nor giving thanks to Him. And if you talk with homosexuals it seems they really are depraved in their thinking in their considering their behavior and feelings so natural to them as to define a third gender in defiance of God's design. They furthermore defy God's design of marriage in that sex was intended to be limited to marriage. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh" Mt 19:5 "Becoming one flesh" is referring to sex in that it is also written, "Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."" 1Cor 6:16 Sex outside of marriage, whether it be homosexuality, fornication, or adultery is immoral. But in terms of degree, homosexuality reveals the depravity of sexually immoral relationships.

But as I said, much as these are depraved, shameful and indecent acts, the homosexual generally has such a seared conscience and their mind so depraved as be desensitized to what is decent. There are differences of opinion as to what it means by having received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. While some point sexual diseases such as aids, it seems to me it's referring to this perversion of the mind and feelings such they their conscience is beyond a sense of decency. Though it is true that sin is naturally unhealthy and thus sexual disease, like aids, is a natural byproduct of such behavior.

In contrast to the political correctness which speaks of homosexuality as a category like that of race, religion, ethnic background or gender, the Bible speaks of homosexuality as simply another category of wickedness. "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." 1Cor 6:9,10 (And just to elaborate on this, the first word for "homosexual" in Greek is "malakos" which refers to the effeminate. The NASB translates this word "effeminate". It's also used for the word "soft" as in Mt 11:8 "A man clothed in "soft" garments" These homosexuals are "girly men". It's the stereotypical homosexual. It's the reason why they are referred to as "gay". The other word translated sodomite in the NKJV is an"abuser of one's self with mankind", as the KJV translates it. The NASB simply translates it "homosexual". "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination." Lev 20:13 The phrasing used in Lev 20:13 in the LXX - the Greek translation of the Old Testament used in Jesus' day - exactly mirrors the word Paul uses here. The LXX uses the phrase "αρσενος κοιτην". Paul uses "αρσενοκοιται", which as you can see just joins the two words together. Therefore he's referencing that same behavior which the Law of Moses speaks of, namely men having sex with men. )

The fate of the sexually immoral is also reflected upon in Jude 1:7 "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."

The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources
 

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Don't waste your time quoting the bible around here.

If you don't mind can I ask you what's going on here? I thought being a "Christian forum" it would be full of like minded believers.
 
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7Cobalt

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It's painful knowing that if my friends who have given into the sin of homosexuality don't repent, they may be lost, it's also painful to see the glorification of homosexuality in the media and world today, although it seems some manner of sin is glorified in some way or another.
 
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Not everyone Christian believes that . We don’t live in the Bronze Age and don’t have to share their prejudices. IMHO I think that their stance was ultimately based on their systemic misogyny
 
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Homosexuality, a Depraved Behavior

Rom 1:26,27 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Homosexuality is a product of a depraved mind and a depraved heart which are likewise a product of not glorifying God as God nor giving thanks to Him. And if you talk with homosexuals it seems they really are depraved in their thinking in their considering their behavior and feelings so natural to them as to define a third gender in defiance of God's design. They furthermore defy God's design of marriage in that sex was intended to be limited to marriage. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh" Mt 19:5 "Becoming one flesh" is referring to sex in that it is also written, "Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."" 1Cor 6:16 Sex outside of marriage, whether it be homosexuality, fornication, or adultery is immoral. But in terms of degree, homosexuality reveals the depravity of sexually immoral relationships.

But as I said, much as these are depraved, shameful and indecent acts, the homosexual generally has such a seared conscience and their mind so depraved as be desensitized to what is decent. There are differences of opinion as to what it means by having received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. While some point sexual diseases such as aids, it seems to me it's referring to this perversion of the mind and feelings such they their conscience is beyond a sense of decency. Though it is true that sin is naturally unhealthy and thus sexual disease, like aids, is a natural byproduct of such behavior.

In contrast to the political correctness which speaks of homosexuality as a category like that of race, religion, ethnic background or gender, the Bible speaks of homosexuality as simply another category of wickedness. "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." 1Cor 6:9,10 (And just to elaborate on this, the first word for "homosexual" in Greek is "malakos" which refers to the effeminate. The NASB translates this word "effeminate". It's also used for the word "soft" as in Mt 11:8 "A man clothed in "soft" garments" These homosexuals are "girly men". It's the stereotypical homosexual. It's the reason why they are referred to as "gay". The other word translated sodomite in the NKJV is an"abuser of one's self with mankind", as the KJV translates it. The NASB simply translates it "homosexual". "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination." Lev 20:13 The phrasing used in Lev 20:13 in the LXX - the Greek translation of the Old Testament used in Jesus' day - exactly mirrors the word Paul uses here. The LXX uses the phrase "αρσενος κοιτην". Paul uses "αρσενοκοιται", which as you can see just joins the two words together. Therefore he's referencing that same behavior which the Law of Moses speaks of, namely men having sex with men. )

The fate of the sexually immoral is also reflected upon in Jude 1:7 "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."

The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources

What happened to "love your neighbor as yourself"? In the parable of the good Samaritan he was ignored by the religious men who passed by but cared for by the (despised) Samaritan.

You can condemn homosexuals all you want but God loves them, so whose side are you on?
 
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7Cobalt

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What happened to "love your neighbor as yourself"? In the parable of the good Samaritan he was ignored by the religious men who passed by but cared for by the (despised) Samaritan.

You can condemn homosexuals all you want but God loves them, so whose side are you on?
Well, God has explicitly stated that there's nothing any human could ever do to make him not love them, so you could technically use the "God loves them" argument for adulterers, liars, even murderers. While God loves them, they are living in sin, whether they know it or not, and while we are supposed to love everyone (love your neighbor as yourself), that doesn't mean we have to agree with their sin, even if you have homosexual friends, that still doesn't make it ok, just as if you have a friend who happens to be a pathological liar, you still love and support them in most aspects of their life, just not their sin.
 
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Comparing homosexuality to murder is a bit much , don’t you think? A private act between consenting adults vs one of the most horrible crimes against another person . Ok , Its a personal thing, I feel the first is none of my business and the 2nd is a crime as well as a real sin.
 
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What happened to "love your neighbor as yourself"? In the parable of the good Samaritan he was ignored by the religious men who passed by but cared for by the (despised) Samaritan.

You can condemn homosexuals all you want but God loves them, so whose side are you on?

Of course God loves homosexuals. And pedophiles. And rapists. You get the point. Christ died for all, and because God loved them, He gave His Son for them. That being said, God's love is not His only attribute. He is absolute holiness. Absolute justice. Absolute love. Absolute truth. He is ALL of these, and he will not forfeit one attribute at the expense of the others. The parable of the good Samaritan is a principle that we should care for others in more than just words, but deeds. Whether they are friend of enemy, not one in which God is giving light on our sin and how He deals with us based on our sin, His holiness, His love, and so on. God will not wink, dismiss, overlook, or disregard our sin. Christ was our propitiation for our sin. We take sin too lightly. Some sins we look at and think it's barely a sin. Others we give more weight too. But God cannot tolerate any sin in His presence, and His view of sin is very different from ours. And homosexuality is one He has said is an abomination. That's a serious charge from the creator of the universe. It's not about sides. It about God and His Word and His perspective on homosexuality. You seem angry, even defensive, at what was said about the Word that was quoted in Romans regarding homosexuality. But God said that. And His love is giving all warning about what HE considers sin. And He considers homosexuality not only sin, but an abomination. I have two close relatives who are gay. I tell them even if you weren't gay, you'd still be separated from God by other sins and Jesus is the only sacrifice God will accept on our behalf. The good news is that God's love is also expressed in warnings. He is perfect in his goodness and justice and will allow all to hear the warning. God's view of love is different from ours as well. There are several words for different types of love in the New Testament, but the highest one is agape love. The love that always does what is in the best interest of the other person. That's what God's love is. And it's not soft or mushy, it's real, practical, and powerful. His warning in His Word is one of the ways He shows love. There will be no one on judgement day that will be able to say they didn't know their sins were wrong, not one person. And He will hold accountable those who mishandled His word. He says to study and show ourselves approved, so we can be both salt and light. Salt was a highly valued preservative, and light showed the way. Salt stings and light illuminates, and sharing God's word both show light and stings in the short term, but preserves souls in the long term. Study God's word and use it in context, just like any other book. The meaning of the word is in the context of the sentence, the sentence in the paragraph, the paragraph in the chapter...and you get the point. Pray and ask the Holy Spirit to show you as you read the Bible the truths God has given. Pray for talking with all unsaved, including homosexuals, as we are to speak the truth in love. Not a sentimental, mushy, love, but one that sees them on the day of judgment, as having no hope then of anything else other than an eternity in hell, without Christ. It's our job to be the salt and light, it's the Holy Spirit's job to draw them to God. God will use our personalities, our humor, our experiences, our pain, our loneliness, compassion --whatever to reach others for Christ. We're still here and we got a job to do.
 
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A.ModerateOne

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Homosexuality, a Depraved Behavior

Rom 1:26,27 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Homosexuality is a product of a depraved mind and a depraved heart which are likewise a product of not glorifying God as God nor giving thanks to Him. And if you talk with homosexuals it seems they really are depraved in their thinking in their considering their behavior and feelings so natural to them as to define a third gender in defiance of God's design. They furthermore defy God's design of marriage in that sex was intended to be limited to marriage. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh" Mt 19:5 "Becoming one flesh" is referring to sex in that it is also written, "Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."" 1Cor 6:16 Sex outside of marriage, whether it be homosexuality, fornication, or adultery is immoral. But in terms of degree, homosexuality reveals the depravity of sexually immoral relationships.

But as I said, much as these are depraved, shameful and indecent acts, the homosexual generally has such a seared conscience and their mind so depraved as be desensitized to what is decent. There are differences of opinion as to what it means by having received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. While some point sexual diseases such as aids, it seems to me it's referring to this perversion of the mind and feelings such they their conscience is beyond a sense of decency. Though it is true that sin is naturally unhealthy and thus sexual disease, like aids, is a natural byproduct of such behavior.

In contrast to the political correctness which speaks of homosexuality as a category like that of race, religion, ethnic background or gender, the Bible speaks of homosexuality as simply another category of wickedness. "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." 1Cor 6:9,10 (And just to elaborate on this, the first word for "homosexual" in Greek is "malakos" which refers to the effeminate. The NASB translates this word "effeminate". It's also used for the word "soft" as in Mt 11:8 "A man clothed in "soft" garments" These homosexuals are "girly men". It's the stereotypical homosexual. It's the reason why they are referred to as "gay". The other word translated sodomite in the NKJV is an"abuser of one's self with mankind", as the KJV translates it. The NASB simply translates it "homosexual". "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination." Lev 20:13 The phrasing used in Lev 20:13 in the LXX - the Greek translation of the Old Testament used in Jesus' day - exactly mirrors the word Paul uses here. The LXX uses the phrase "αρσενος κοιτην". Paul uses "αρσενοκοιται", which as you can see just joins the two words together. Therefore he's referencing that same behavior which the Law of Moses speaks of, namely men having sex with men. )

The fate of the sexually immoral is also reflected upon in Jude 1:7 "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."

The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources

Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible, Copyright 2000
"The terms 'homosexuality' and 'homosexual' are coinages of the 19th century C.E. and have no equivalent in ancient Hebrew or Greek. It is debatable whether the modern idea of homosexuality (an erotic attraction focused only or primarily on persons of the same gender) existed at all in antiquity. The Bible does not appear to say anything directly about homosexuality in this modern sense of the term, but a few passages do refer to same-gender genital acts." page 602

New Bible Dictionary, Third Edition, IVP Copyright 1996
"The Bible says nothing specifically about the homosexual condition (despite the rather misleading RSV [1st Ed]translation of 1 Cor. 6:9), but its condemnations of homosexual conduct are explicit. The scope of these strictures must, however, be carefully determined. Too often they have been used as tools of a homophobic polemic which has claimed too much." page 478

Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Second Edition, Copyright 2001, Baker Reference Library
"Traditionally homosexuality was the sin for which Sodom was destroyed by divine judgment, hence the popular term 'sodomy.' This interpretation depends upon uncertain translation, while Ezekiel 16:49-50 and Sirach 16:8-9 give other reasons for the judgment. The assumption of homosexuality in Sodom dates from the Greek occupation of Palestine, when 'the Greek sin' seriously endangered Jewish youth and strong scriptural warning was necessary... It is usually assumed that the male cult prostitutes common in heathen shrines but forbidden in Israel (Deut. 23:17), though sometimes prevalent (1 Kings 14:24; 15:12; 22:46; 2 Kings 23:7), were homosexual." page 574

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Fully Revised, Vol. 4, 1988, Eerdmans
"...how did Paul understand the homosexual behavior he condemned? Evidently he understood it as freely chosen (cf. 'exchanged,' 'gave up') by people for whom heterosexual relations were 'natural,' and as chosen (by heterosexual people) because of their insatiable lust ('consumed with passion')." page 437

From The Ethics of Sex, Copyright 1964, by Helmut Thielicke (1908-1986) German Protestant theologian and rector of the University of Hamburg from 1960 to 1978 -
"One cannot expect to find in the theological ethics of German-speaking Protestantism a clear, consistent attitude toward homosexuality simply because hitherto the writers on ethics have taken little or no notice of the mere fact itself and therefore a body of opinion -- to say nothing of the unanimity of judgement -- is almost non-existent... Doctrinaire prejudices, which at the same time distort the theological problem presented by homosexuality, manifest themselves also in the fact that the value-judgment "homosexuality is sinful" is not isolated from an objective assessment of the phenonemon but is rather projected into it, and the result is that one arrives at an a priori defamation of those who are afflicted with this anomaly." page 269, 270

Westminster Confession of Faith, 1647; which is considered the 'gold standard' of Christian confessions
"God alone is Lord of the conscience, and hath left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men, which are in any thing contrary to His Word; or beside it, in matters of faith or worship."

The 1689 Second London Confession of Faith of Baptists
"God alone is Lord of the conscience, and has left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men which are in any thing contrary to his word, or not contained in it." Retained the identical wording from the Wesminster

The 2000 Southern Baptist Faith and Message
"God alone is Lord of the conscience, and He has left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men which are contrary to His Word or not contained in it." Virtually Identical to the 1647 Westminster as well

A person who is same-sex oriented has a right to keep his secret. It is the gossip that is condemned.

Prov 11:13 (REB) "A tale-bearer gives away secrets, but a trustworthy person respects a confidence."
also
Prov 20:19 (REB) "A gossip will betray secrets, so have nothing to do with a tale-bearer."
 
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A.ModerateOne

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Don't waste your time quoting the bible around here.

Rom.1:18-32 is a narrative of man's rejection of the one true God and thinking himself wise, creates idols in exchange for the One True God. These are God rejecting people, idolaters, who are proud of their own perceived intellect and wisdom. Their continued descent into deeper and deeper depravity is 3 times attributed to "God gave them up" in vs 24,26,28 and all three times the cause or reason reflects back to their ultimate sin of rejecting God and turning to idols. The flow of thought goes back to their rejection of the One True God and exchanging Him with idols.

"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." (Rom 1:26-27, KJV)

1. Women changed "natural use", NRSV "natural intercourse", but did not, could not, change their nature.
2. a. changed "the natural use" KJV, YLT.. Referring to the created order, God's design
b. "exchanged their natural function", Amplified, "exchanged their natural sexual function" ISV, "changed their natural way" AAT by William F. Beck (LCMS)

If under a. above "the natural use" the definite article 'the' points back to the created design and order. But under b. "their natural sexual function" would indicate that by their nature, their own sexual nature, these women would have the created order, created sexual function within themselves, but could only change their conduct. Sexual orientation is not changeable.

"The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable."
http://www.ct.gov/shp/lib/shp/pdf/a...bout_sexual_orientation_and_homosexuality.pdf

3. It is common to teach that v26 refers to lesbianism, but that violates the directive of 1 Cor. 4:6 ASV, "learn not to go beyond the things which are written". There is nothing here stating women had sex with women. As the English Baptist John Gill wrote in the 18th century, one understanding can be: "by prostituting themselves to, and complying with the 'sodomitical' embraces of men, in a way that is against nature". This would probably refer to oral and anal intercourse of women with men. From this viewpoint, the word "likewise" connecting v27 to v26 also refers to oral and anal intercourse of man with man, unnatural compared to the created order, but created order does not define sin, God's commands do.
4. In v27 men are "leaving" (KJV), "giving up" (NRSV), "having left" (YLT), "forsaking" (Literal translation by Jay P. Green). You cannot leave, give up and forsake that which you did not possess in the first place, and a male of same-sex orientation has not had the relationship to/for a woman from which to leave. This has been observed in the church as early as St. John Chrysostom (349-407AD) when he wrote in his homily on Romans:

"...he deprives them of excuse, by saying of the women, that 'they changed the natural use.' For no one, he means, can say that it was by being hindered of legitimate intercourse that they came to this pass, or that it was from having no means to fulfil their desire that they were driven into this monstrous insaneness. For the changing implies possession. Which also when discoursing upon the doctrines he said, 'They changed the truth of God for a lie.' And with regard to the men again, he shows the same thing by saying, 'Leaving the natural use of the woman.' And in a like way with those, these he also puts out of all means of defending themselves by charging them not only that they had the means of gratification, and left that which they had, and went after another, but that having dishonored that which was natural, they ran after that which was contrary to nature."
CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 4 on Romans (Chrysostom)

5. The KJV word "burned" in v27 is the Greek, "G1572 ἐκκαίω ekkaio" and is found only here in the NT, just this one occurrence. A. T. Robertson says it means "to burn out, to set on fire". The NRSV renders it "consumed". From a 19th century Greek scholar, James Robinson Boise, "a much stronger word than the Eng. burned". This is important because the word used for sexual desire translated "burn" referring to a loving couple is totally different: "For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn." (1Cor 7:7-9, KJV) The word "burn" here is the Greek: "G4448 πυρόω puroo" a totally unrelated word to that in Rom. 1:27.
6. The KJV word "lust" here is also an instance where this is the only occurrence in the entire NT Greek, "G3715 ὄρεξις orexis". The "burned in their lust" KJV, or "consumed with passion" NRSV; indicates something extreme, not to be compared with normal love, affection or even a close M-M friendship which may include some sexual desire considering that sexual orientation is a continuum, not a neat hetero-, bi- or homosexual construct of human sexuality. The word "lust" here is totally unrelated to the Greek lust in Matt. 5:27.
7. The KJV words "working that which is unseemly" in the literal Greek reads "working the unseemliness", from Rev. Alford Marshall in the NIV/Grk-Eng Interlinear. The Greek scholar, Boice, I referenced above writes: "the (well-known, notorious) indecency". The sexual perversions of Nero, who lived at the time Paul wrote, come to mind. This historical reference about Nero will be given further in the paper.
8. What is the "error" meant in "receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet"? From the flow of the entire passage from v18, it would seem to refer to the rejection of the One True God and worshipping idols. The moral degradation described is the horrible descent into the depths of depravity which was sin compounding upon sin, as punishment. Again, Boice in the 19th century writes: "of their error, of their departure (from the true God)". The respected 19th century theologian, Presbyterian Charles Hodge states in his commentary on Romans: "The apostle for the third time repeats the idea that the moral degradation of the heathen was a punishment of their apostasy from God. Receiving, he says, in themselves the meet recompense of their error. It is obvious from the whole context that πλάνη here refers to the sin of forsaking the true God; and it is no less obvious that the recompense or punishment of this apostasy was the moral degradation which he had just described." Romans 1 - Hodge's Commentary on Romans, Ephesians and First Corintians - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Then the BDAG reads: "Of an erroneous view of God, as exhibited in polytheism, resulting in moral degradation (Wsd 12:24; Ar. 2, 1 al.; Just., D. 47, 1; Tat. 29, 1; Iren., 1, 1, 3 [Harv. I 11, 10]; Did., Gen. 217, 30) Ro 1:27" Yet in this day it is common to dogmatically insist the "error" is homosexuality and the "recompense" is something like AIDS.

I see the sin, the error, of this passage is exchanging the One True God for idols and self-worship which brings about degradation upon degradation to where their outrageous and extreme lust consumes them. In the Evangelical Dictionary of Theology I referenced above, it gives several forms of male upon male sexual behavior, types of homosexuality, and I'll paraphrase here:

1. The common and rather normal phase of same-sex interest and experiment in early teens.
2. After an unhappy m-f love affair, a man returns to the comfort of those early teen years.
3. Artificial all male environment such as all male schools, prison, military.. possible early molestation.
4. Constitutional causes that are involuntary, a true exclusive homosexual orientation
5. Vicious, unbridled sensuality, exhibitionism, exploitation of young by the depraved, the sodomite.
[Considering that orientation is a continuum, there are probably other circumstances that can involve rather innocent same-gender sexual expression or conduct.]

Then the question of Nero who lived in Paul's time comes back to mind. His perversions are described as follows:

"Suetonius: NERO XXVII-XXIX
[Loeb Translation, 1914]
XXVII. Little by little, however, as his vices grew stronger, he dropped jesting and secrecy and with no attempt at disguise openly broke out into worse crime. He prolonged his revels from midday to midnight, often livening himself by a warm plunge, or, if it were summer, into water cooled with snow. Sometimes too he closed the inlets and banqueted in public in the great tank, in the Campus Martius, or in the Circus Maximus, waited on by harlots and dancing girls from all over the city. Whenever he drifted down the Tiber to Ostia, or sailed about the Gulf of Baiae, booths were set up at intervals along the banks and shores, fitted out for debauchery, while bartering matrons played the part of innkeepers and from every hand solicited him to come ashore. He also levied dinners on his friends, one of whom spent four million sesterces for a banquet at which turbans were distributed, and another a considerably larger sum for a rose dinner.
XXVIII. Besides abusing freeborn boys and seducing married women, he debauched the vestal virgin Rubria. The freedwoman Acte he all but made his lawful wife, after bribing some ex-consuls to perjure themselves by swearing that she was of royal birth. He castrated the boy Sporus and actually tried to make a woman of him; and he married him with all the usual ceremonies, including a dowry and a bridal veil, took him to his house attended by a great throng, and treated him as his wife. And the witty jest that someone made is still current, that it would have been well for the world if Nero's father Domitius had had that kind of wife. This Sporus, decked out with the finery of the empresses and riding in a litter, he took with him to the assizes and marts of Greece, and later at Rome through the Street of the Images, fondly kissing him from time to time. That he even desired illicit relations with his own mother, and was kept from it by her enemiess who feared that such a relationship might give the reckless and insolent woman too great infiuence, was notorious, especially after he added to his concubines a courtesan who was said to look very like Agripinina. Even before that, so they say, whenever he rode in a litter with his mother, he had incestuous relations with her, which were betrayed by the stains on his clothing.
XXIX. He so prostituted his own chastity that after defiling almost every part of his body, he at last devised a kind of game, in which, covered with the skin of some wild animal, he was let loose from a cage and attacked the private parts of men and women, who were bound to stakes, and when he had sated his mad lust, was dispatched by his freed man Doryphorus; for he was even married to this man in the same way that he himself had married Sporus, going so far as to imitate the cries and lamentations of a maiden being deflowered. I have heard from some men that it was his unshaken conviction that no man was chaste or pure in any part of his body, but that most of them concealed their vices and cleverly drew a veil over them; and that therefore he pardoned all other faults in those who confessed to him their lewdness." Internet History Sourcebooks Project

Paul was describing conduct such as was seen in Nero and to read into this the modern concept of homosexuality is to read into the Scriptures what is not there.

It has been claimed that just because Nero was into such perversions, it did not mean it was common among the populace that Paul observed. But, I reply, former President Bill Clinton got away with his adulterous actions and was not removed from office because such a large part of the population were either doing the same things, or taking vicarious pleasure in Bill Clinton's conduct.

In 1878 the Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown commentary was published, and on Rom. 1:27 it states in part:
"Observe how, in the retributive judgment of God, vice is here seen consuming and exhausting itself. When the passions, scourged by violent and continued indulgence in natural vices, became impotent to yield the craved enjoyment, resort was had to artificial stimulants by the practice of unnatural and monstrous vices."
 
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A.ModerateOne

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Homosexuality, a Depraved Behavior

Rom 1:26,27 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Homosexuality is a product of a depraved mind and a depraved heart which are likewise a product of not glorifying God as God nor giving thanks to Him. And if you talk with homosexuals it seems they really are depraved in their thinking in their considering their behavior and feelings so natural to them as to define a third gender in defiance of God's design. They furthermore defy God's design of marriage in that sex was intended to be limited to marriage. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh" Mt 19:5 "Becoming one flesh" is referring to sex in that it is also written, "Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."" 1Cor 6:16 Sex outside of marriage, whether it be homosexuality, fornication, or adultery is immoral. But in terms of degree, homosexuality reveals the depravity of sexually immoral relationships.

But as I said, much as these are depraved, shameful and indecent acts, the homosexual generally has such a seared conscience and their mind so depraved as be desensitized to what is decent. There are differences of opinion as to what it means by having received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. While some point sexual diseases such as aids, it seems to me it's referring to this perversion of the mind and feelings such they their conscience is beyond a sense of decency. Though it is true that sin is naturally unhealthy and thus sexual disease, like aids, is a natural byproduct of such behavior.

In contrast to the political correctness which speaks of homosexuality as a category like that of race, religion, ethnic background or gender, the Bible speaks of homosexuality as simply another category of wickedness. "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." 1Cor 6:9,10 (And just to elaborate on this, the first word for "homosexual" in Greek is "malakos" which refers to the effeminate. The NASB translates this word "effeminate". It's also used for the word "soft" as in Mt 11:8 "A man clothed in "soft" garments" These homosexuals are "girly men". It's the stereotypical homosexual. It's the reason why they are referred to as "gay". The other word translated sodomite in the NKJV is an"abuser of one's self with mankind", as the KJV translates it. The NASB simply translates it "homosexual". "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination." Lev 20:13 The phrasing used in Lev 20:13 in the LXX - the Greek translation of the Old Testament used in Jesus' day - exactly mirrors the word Paul uses here. The LXX uses the phrase "αρσενος κοιτην". Paul uses "αρσενοκοιται", which as you can see just joins the two words together. Therefore he's referencing that same behavior which the Law of Moses speaks of, namely men having sex with men. )

The fate of the sexually immoral is also reflected upon in Jude 1:7 "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."

The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate(Greek malakos), nor abusers of themselves with mankind(Greek arsenokoites)," (1Cor 6:9, KJV)

The most accurate translation in today's language I believe is by Reverend Arthur Marshall in the NIV/Grk-Eng Interlinear, with the literal rendering:

"Or know ye not that unrighteous men will not inherit [the] kingdom of God? Be not led astray; not fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor voluptuous persons nor sodomites,"

Has the historical translation of malakos referred to sexual acts with the word "effeminate"? No!

"effeminate
1. having the qualities generally attributed to women, as weakness, timidity, delicacy, etc.; unmanly; not virile
2. characterized by such qualities; weak; soft, decadent, etc.: effeminate art"
Websters New World College Dictionary

"effeminate
1. Having the qualities of the female sex; soft or delicate to an unmanly degree; tender; womanish; voluptuous." the 1828 Websters English Dictionary

The New Jerusalem Bible translates malakos as "the self-indulgent".

The BDAG defines malakos(μαλακός) thus: "being passive in a same-sex relationship, effeminate esp. of catamites, of men and boys who are sodomized by other males in such a relationship, opp. ἀρσενοκοίτης"

But, Heinrich Meyer, a 19th century evangelical (Lutheran) German Greek scholar states:
"μαλακοί] effeminates, commonly understood as qui muliebria patiuntur, but with no sufficient evidence from the usage of the language (the passages in Wetstein and Kypke, even Dion. Hal. vii. 2, do not prove the point); moreover, such catamites (molles) were called πόρνοι or κίναιδοι. One does not see, moreover, why precisely this sin should be mentioned twice over in different aspects. Rather therefore: effeminate luxurious livers."
1 Corinthians 6 - Heinrich Meyer's Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

These two Greek authorities disagree but I find Meyer to have the best reasoning. Why would Paul use malakos figuratively, meaning a 'catamite', when the Greek had the exact word for a 'catamite'. The only other uses of malakos in the NT are twice in Matt. 11:8 and once in Luke 7:25 and those 3 occurrences refer solely to soft, luxurious clothing. I cannot believe God the Holy Spirit had Paul use malakos to mean 'catamite' here in 1 Cor. 6:9 when all the other references in the NT refer to soft, luxurious clothing and the Greek had the exact word for 'catamite' that Paul could have used. For centuries, malakos, starting with the Vulgate, up through the Douay, the KJV and ASV; the word "effeminate" was the translation. The first translation to translate the word malakos in the sense of 'catamite' and joined to arsenokoites as "homosexuals" was the first Edition of the RSV NT in 1946. In the RSV Revision, 1971, the word "homosexuals" was changed to "sexual perverts". It appears as though the obsession with homosexuality in this modern era has caused a bias in the minds of the translators, reading back into the Bible modern words and concepts not found in the biblical Hebrew and Greek. This can be seen even in the outstanding study Bible, the NET Bible. The Translator Note on the word malakos begins thus:

"This term is sometimes rendered “effeminate,” although in contemporary English usage such a translation could be taken to refer to demeanor rather than behavior."

It is clear the translators have translated to fit a pre-conceived understanding of the Greek malakos, believing that the word MUST be translated as a sexual sin rather than as simply "effeminate".

This leaves the Greek arsenokoites, "abusers of themselves with mankind" in the KJV and then "sodomites" in the NRSV, YLT and the Interlinear I quoted above, along with other versions. It is a very difficult word and a lot of variance in the views of the meaning. In Principles of Interpretation, page 123 is this statement: "RULE: The meaning of a rare word, not decided by usage, should be sought first in the etymology, then in early versions, and lastly in kindred tongues."

I believe it is Bernard Ramm who warns that the etymology of a word is its history, not its meaning. That is generally true, but if we are studying the one who coined the word from two other words, as Paul did by joining G730 ἄρσην arsen (male) to G2845 κοίτη koite (bed or couch) etymology is important. The occurrence of the word in the NT is the first known use of the word so Paul is thought to have coined it. The word koite in Heb. 13:4 stands for the marriage bed, morally honorable. In Rom. 9:10 it stands for conception. So, it has a sexual meaning and in these two cases it is moral. Yet we find the word used in a vice list in the following:

"Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying." (Rom 13:13, KJV)

Here koite is rendered "chambering", which is quite suggestive since it means men bed-hopping, promiscuity. The 19th century Methodist Adam Clarke in his commentary states on this word: "This is no legitimate word, and conveys no sense till, from its connection in this place, we force a meaning upon it. The original word, κοιταις, signifies whoredoms and prostitution of every kind."
Romans 13 - Adam Clarke Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

When the word has "male" prefixed to it and in a vice list, is it sin as in Rom. 13:13, or is it sin just because it has "male" attached to it? I suggest that male to male sex in 1 Cor. 6:9 is the same as what Adam Clarke described as the male-female sin. While the passage in 1 Cor. 6 has no real category or structure so that we can get an idea from word association of the meaning, Paul uses arsenokoites once more where we do get an idea from word associations. In 1 Tim. 1:9, 10 KJV we find the sins by category:

"A. lawless, disobedient, ungodly, sinners, unholy and profane
B. murderers of fathers, murderers of mothers, manslayers
C. whoremongers, arsenokoites, menstealers (NRSV 'slave traders')
D. liars, perjured persons"

There the word is sandwiched between "whoremongers" and "menstealers" or slave traders. The meaning of this word now is more clear: an abusive, dominating and promiscuous male. The description of Nero's perversion comes to mind again. In today's English sodomites is the closest one word translation.
 
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A.ModerateOne

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What happened to "love your neighbor as yourself"? In the parable of the good Samaritan he was ignored by the religious men who passed by but cared for by the (despised) Samaritan.

You can condemn homosexuals all you want but God loves them, so whose side are you on?

I agree with you, Pescador. It is amazing how so many can focus on Rom. 1:26,27 and then totally ignore what other sins are equally worthy of death:

"And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them." (Rom 1:28-32 RSV)
 
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pescador

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I agree with you, Pescador. It is amazing how so many can focus on Rom. 1:26,27 and then totally ignore what other sins are equally worthy of death:

"And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them." (Rom 1:28-32 RSV)

Thanks for posting this. Unfortunately people focus on the sin(s) that give energy to their negative emotions. The basis of all the sins mentioned in the beginning of Romans is idolatry.

Romans 1:18-25, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth by their unrighteousness, because what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God or give him thanks, but they became futile in their thoughts and their senseless hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image resembling mortal human beings or birds or four-footed animals or reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity, to dishonor their bodies among themselves. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen."

Homosexuality is just one of many sins that Paul mentions, yet people focus on that one behavior, ignoring what follows.

Verse 28 summarizes the basis of their sinful behavior: And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what should not be done.

Then Paul summarizes... "They are filled with every kind of 1) unrighteousness, 2) wickedness, 3) covetousness, 4) malice. They are rife with 5) envy, 6) murder, 7) strife, 8) deceit, 9) hostility. They are 10) gossips, 11) slanderers, 12) haters of God, 13) insolent, 14) arrogant, 15) boastful, 16) contrivers of all sorts of evil, 17) disobedient to parents, 18) senseless, 19) covenant-breakers, 20) heartless, 21) ruthless. Although they fully know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but also approve of those who practice them.

Paul lists 21 sins in addition to homosexuality, including murder, hatred of God, and "contrivers of all sorts of evil", yet people focus on one sin and ignore the other more grievous ones. They actually focus on homosexuality and exclude murder and hatred of God!

BTW, if homosexuality is supposedly such a grievous sin, why didn't Jesus mention it even once??

I pray often for God to remove people's hatred of others whom they haven't even met. Who is in greater violation? When God commanded us to love our neighbors as ourselves (in both covenants), He meant it!
 
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Clare73

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Well, God has explicitly stated that there's nothing any human could ever do to make him not love them, so you could technically use the "God loves them" argument for adulterers, liars, even murderers. While God loves them, they are living in sin, whether they know it or not, and while we are supposed to love everyone (love your neighbor as yourself), that doesn't mean we have to agree with their sin, even if you have homosexual friends, that still doesn't make it ok, just as if you have a friend who happens to be a pathological liar, you still love and support them in most aspects of their life, just not their sin.
Have you ever known someone whom you knew when he was two years old that he was absolutely gay?

What do you think that is about?
 
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pescador

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Have you ever known someone whom you knew when he was two years old that he was absolutely gay?

What do you think that is about?

What is that about? Have you ever known any single human being who, at the age of two(!) had any understanding of sexuality?
 
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There are many, many sins mentioned in the Bible. Why is same-sex behavior focused on by Christians, to the exclusion of far more serious sins. Can anyone really compare the rejection of God, rejection of "their neighbor", hatred, murder, theft, assault, lying, stealing, etc. to loving somebody of the same gender? Come on, people -- get real!
 
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grasping the after wind

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Comparing homosexuality to murder is a bit much , don’t you think? A private act between consenting adults vs one of the most horrible crimes against another person . Ok , Its a personal thing, I feel the first is none of my business and the 2nd is a crime as well as a real sin.

Which sin would you prefer to compare it to?
 
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grasping the after wind

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There are many, many sins mentioned in the Bible. Why is same-sex behavior focused on by Christians, to the exclusion of far more serious sins. Can anyone really compare the rejection of God, rejection of "their neighbor", hatred, murder, theft, assault, lying, stealing, etc. to loving somebody of the same gender? Come on, people -- get real!

I would never say anything negative about loving somebody of the same gender. I heartily approve of it. However the subject under discussion was sexual behavior not love. Let us not conflate the two things.
 
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Clare73

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What is that about? Have you ever known any single human being who, at the age of two(!) had any understanding of sexuality?
I'm not speaking of sexuality at two years of age. I'm speaking of behavior--mannerisms, preferences, deportment--that is not only markedly feminine, but dramatically expressive.
 
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