Rivers of the Deep

[grmorton]

Yesterday while flying back to Beijing, I flew over the Lena River system of Russia and took the first picture below. The picture shows a tributary of the Lena River system along with the oxbow lakes,and scars from the previous channels. This picture reminded me of some rivers I have seen in seismic data. The oxbow lakes are the former course of the river which have now been cut off by the present channel. These oxbow lakes are evidence of the passage of time in the geologic column.

The second picture is of some seismic data which shows oxbows as well, except that this river channel is buried very deeply in the geologic column. I took this picture of a poster paper at a geophysical convention. In a subsequent post I will show a the interpretation of this, but if you look closely you can see the wiggle channel and the oxbow lakes.

The third picture shows the interpretation of the seismic. the thin red line is the youngest channel (the last channel) the thick green lines are the older channels and oxbow lakes. Why should such things be found in the geologic column if there is no global flood?

Do any YECs care to explain why such pictures are never shown to them by their YEC leaders? (I have given up on asking YECs to actually explain the data cause they never do). Thus I would just ask why your leaders don't show you such pictures?

 

[ChrisPelletier]

No refutation here, but man, that was probably a beautiful site.

 

[KerrMetric]

Yesterday while flying back to Beijing, I flew over the Lena River system of Russia and took the first picture below. The picture shows a tributary of the Lena River system along with the oxbow lakes,and scars from the previous channels. This picture reminded me of some rivers I have seen in seismic data. The oxbow lakes are the former course of the river which have now been cut off by the present channel. These oxbow lakes are evidence of the passage of time in the geologic column.

The second picture is of some seismic data which shows oxbows as well, except that this river channel is buried very deeply in the geologic column. I took this picture of a poster paper at a geophysical convention. In a subsequent post I will show a the interpretation of this, but if you look closely you can see the wiggle channel and the oxbow lakes.

The third picture shows the interpretation of the seismic. the thin red line is the youngest channel (the last channel) the thick green lines are the older channels and oxbow lakes. Why should such things be found in the geologic column if there is no global flood?

Do any YECs care to explain why such pictures are never shown to them by their YEC leaders? (I have given up on asking YECs to actually explain the data cause they never do). Thus I would just ask why your leaders don't show you such pictures?

You worded it wrong. I think you meant to say "Why shouls such things be found in the geologic column if there was a global flood?"

 

[Illuminatus]

You worded it wrong. I think you meant to say "Why shouls such things be found in the geologic column if there was a global flood?"

Yup.

Nice to see you back, Glen.

 

[JohnR7]

We have the same situation here. Before the ice from the glaciers melted they say, the river was wider than it is now. There is quite a bit of conglomerate rock that they feel was the old river bottom. Then the ice melted and there was a rush of water that cut the river quite a bit deeper in a rather short period of time. So the post ice age river is not so wide as the pre ice age river was.

You know as well as I do, that the YEC believe that the river was cut deeper and the course changed by the flood. If there was a ice age, then they believe it could have only lasted a day. It boggles my mind because there is stone from canada that was moved thousands of miles south by the ice. If you want to move something thousands of miles in a 24 hour period of time, then it would have to move at a rate of 80 to 100 miles an hour.

 

[dad]

..Do any YECs care to explain why such pictures are never shown to them by their YEC leaders? (I have given up on asking YECs to actually explain the data cause they never do). Thus I would just ask why your leaders don't show you such pictures?

Ha. Maybe they haven't attached as great a significance as you do to the geologic column?
My own view is that it seems to be evidence of what I have come to believe more and more, that, 1) this column was, by and large, laid down pre flood.
and 2) The things that you interpret as taking great time are evidence that things were greatly different in this pre flood time. Why deny evidence? (if this is as cut and dry as it appears)

 

[notto]

Ha. Maybe they haven't attached as great a significance as you do to the geologic column?
My own view is that it seems to be evidence of what I have come to believe more and more, that, 1) this column was, by and large, laid down pre flood.
and 2) The things that you interpret as taking great time are evidence that things were greatly different in this pre flood time. Why deny evidence? (if this is as cut and dry as it appears)

Let me guess, rivers, along with light, travelled instantaneously pre flood.

 

[dad]

Let me guess, rivers, along with light, travelled instantaneously pre flood.

Who said anything about rivers moving fast? Point is, I could see how a lot of layers could be laid down quicky in that pre flood, and pre uknowwhat as well.
If you want a thread on the many speeds of spiritual light, as opposed to the one speed of our present light, this wouldn't be the thread for it!

 

[notto]

Who said anything about rivers moving fast? Point is, I could see how a lot of layers could be laid down quicky in that pre flood, and pre uknowwhat as well.

Are you saying that presplit that rivers couldn't have moved faster? We all know that pre-split, anything that you can imagine is possible. It would seem like as good of an explaination as anything else you have offered.

Rivers of chocolate and caramel carved these riverbeds and layed down the layers we see pre-flood. Of course unlike post split, the rivers of chocolate and caramel flowed faster than water, not slower because viscocity was not present yet and they flowed instantaneosly.

Beat that dad! Can you come up with something even more ridiculous to explain the evidence presented in the OP?

 

[Grengor]

Don't temp the devil.

 

[dad]

..Beat that dad! Can you come up with something even more ridiculous to explain the evidence presented in the OP?

I can't think of anything more riddiculous than the imaginary old ages, sorry, no.
I also cannot concur with your new sister theory of a sweet past.
We know there were major differences back then, as a matter of biblical record. By the evidence, we ought to catch on just how different it really was, not invent fantasy first lifeforms, and chocolate rivers!
As for standard yec interpretaion, they may be right, but it doesn't seem to fit the evidence to me.
Some of us, you know, don't pretend the rapid pre flood layers have chocolate between the layers, prefering to stick to science!

 

[notto]

I can't think of anything more riddiculous than the imaginary old ages, sorry, no.
I also cannot concur with your new sister theory of a sweet past.
We know there were major differences back then, as a matter of biblical record. By the evidence, we ought to catch on just how different it really was, not invent fantasy first lifeforms, and chocolate rivers!
As for standard yec interpretaion, they may be right, but it doesn't seem to fit the evidence to me.
Some of us, you know, don't pretend the rapid pre flood layers have chocolate between the layers, prefering to stick to science!

Except when you suggest things like instantaneous light which can't be reconciled with evidence, physics, logic, or science.

You make us stuff, just as I did only mine is sweeter.

 

[dlamberth]

Here in the Pacific Northwest we have the results of one of the largest basalt flows on the planet where we have hundreds of individual flows. In some areas the basalt is over 2 miles deep and in other areas individual flows were so huge they flowed over 300 miles to dump into the Pacific Ocean. Than the Snake River carved through the basalt to form Hells Canyon, the deepest canyon in North America.

But wait..that's not all... resting ON TOP of the basalt we have a 2 mile deep glacier that moved down from Canada.

How all of this can happen in less than 6000 years is beyond me.

Like the question presented in the OP, I have always wondered why YEC's are not presented this data as well.

.

 

[dlamberth]

Why deny evidence?

From everything I have ever watched you do,....you have never, ever presented any evidence what so ever.....so I'm still waiting.

.

 

[dlamberth]

Who said anything about rivers moving fast? Point is, I could see how a lot of layers could be laid down quicky in that pre flood, and pre uknowwhat as well.

Maybe in your imagination "you" can see this, but in real life there is zero evidence that it actually happened this way.


.

 

[dad]

Maybe in your imagination "you" can see this, but in real life there is zero evidence that it actually happened this way.


.

Thank you for offering your version of reality as some type of debate, for what it's worth.
Now as for evidence, this is exactly what we are looking at here, the only question is what is it evidence for, really?!
Do you have some type of evidence that it was not pre flood, or do you think it is a one way street here, where you offer fantasy lifeforms, and universes in a less than dust sized speck at your own leisure, while anyone else needs something else?
If the pre flood fast depositions are very different than the present, then the present is no indicator of that time, despite that very common misconception. To say anything else, in leui of evidence, and in spite of it, really, is merely to overstate your beliefs.
There is certainly no more evidence of long ages in this river that used to run a different course, than there is of a different pre flood world! All you have is deeply believed assumptions that the present is the be all end all! That is an interpretation that the evidence does not support any more than that the past was very different. If so, perhaps you would make a case for it, rather than crying on my shoulder here?

 

[pantsman52]

Dad, I believe that I have finally come up with a rebuttal for you. In a Spaghetti Universe, what you say couldn't have happend. HAH!

 

[dlamberth]

Thank you for offering your version of reality as some type of debate, for what it's worth.
Now as for evidence, this is exactly what we are looking at here, the only question is what is it evidence for, really?!
Do you have some type of evidence that it was not pre flood, or do you think it is a one way street here, where you offer fantasy lifeforms, and universes in a less than dust sized speck at your own leisure, while anyone else needs something else?
If the pre flood fast depositions are very different than the present, then the present is no indicator of that time, despite that very common misconception. To say anything else, in leui of evidence, and in spite of it, really, is merely to overstate your beliefs.
There is certainly no more evidence of long ages in this river that used to run a different course, than there is of a different pre flood world! All you have is deeply believed assumptions that the present is the be all end all! That is an interpretation that the evidence does not support any more than that the past was very different. If so, perhaps you would make a case for it, rather than crying on my shoulder here?

What we have on the table are volumes upon volumes of scientific study and research that covers a vast array of geological studies including subjects like how a river cuts through the earth, which is quite fascinating in and of itself.


I'm still waiting from you for a single shred of evidence that covers your arguments.







.

 

[dlamberth]

Ha. Maybe they haven't attached as great a significance as you do to the geologic column?

I suspect the reason why is because the geologic column does not support those who hold a belief in a world wide flood.

.

 

[dad]

I suspect the reason why is because the geologic column does not support those who hold a belief in a world wide flood.

.

It does now. I think it's fine for what it really is, and I know there was a flood.