Righteousness, liberty & teaching OC law

[BrotherJJ]

1 Tim 1:
3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

(MY NOTE: Paul is telling Timothy to challenge those that try to add anything to their gospel message)

4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

(MY NOTE: Challenge those invoking questions about endless genealogies. That detract from our faith message)

5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

(MY NOTE Now the END of the commandment is: Love from a pure heart & good conscience mixed with genuine Faith)

6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

(MY NOTE: Wondering into empty arguments & useless discussions, about law invoked punishments that are no longer applicable)

7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

(MY NOTE: These teachings derail the true goal: Love from a pure heart & sincere Faith toward Christ).

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

(MY NOTE: This doctrines problem being: Slip once/break one (all do) you've broken them all & now owe sins required wage/death)

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

(MY NOTE: Every believer has been justified & received Christ' imputed gift of righteousness (Rom 5:17-18). Placing them in a right standing with the Father, thru Faih in Christ, the Lord our righteousness (Jer 23:5, 2 Cor 5:21). Once justified & declared righteous all sins due punishment has been imputed onto Christ. He bought them ALL with His blood)

2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

(MY NOTE: Righteousness is only available thru faith in Christ)

Galatians written to believers (Gal 1:2)

Gal 5:
5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

(MY NOTE: Believers keep your Christ given NC liberty. By not getting tangled up in promoting the OC yoke of bondage)

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
MY NOTE: Circumcised, uncircumcised in your flesh makes zero difference, forget about it)

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

(MY NOTE: If you get circumcised or try to obtain righteousness thru self-works. You can't possibly pay the debt owed! If you EVER slip/fail/sin just once & you will slip)

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

(MY NOTE: Trying to obtain righteousness thru self-works. Means your grace ticket never got punched)

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

(MY NOTE: Righteousness is Christ imputed thru Faith in HIM. NOT earned thru self-works)

All praise, glory & honor belongs to Jesus the Lord of our righteousness. AMEN & Amen

 

[Soyeong]

1 Tim 1:
3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

(MY NOTE: Paul is telling Timothy to challenge those that try to add anything to their gospel message)

4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

(MY NOTE: Challenge those invoking questions about endless genealogies. That detract from our faith message)

The books of Matthew and Luke both contain genealogies, so there is a proper use of them, and what was only said against improper uses of them should not be applied as being against their proper uses.

5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

(MY NOTE Now the END of the commandment is: Love from a pure heart & good conscience mixed with genuine Faith)

If God's law had ended, then there would be no point in verse 9 speaking against the lawless and disobedient. Rather, the Greek word "telos" that is translated as "end" would be better translated as "goal", though even "end" can mean "intention" or "aim". In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized God's law as being about how to love God and our neighbor, and in Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so the goal of the law is to teach us how to love form a pure heart and a good conscience mixed with genuine faith.

6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

(MY NOTE: Wondering into empty arguments & useless discussions, about law invoked punishments that are no longer applicable) 7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

(MY NOTE: These teachings derail the true goal: Love from a pure heart & sincere Faith toward Christ).

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

(MY NOTE: This doctrines problem being: Slip once/break one (all do) you've broken them all & now owe sins required wage/death)

Speaking against foolish arguments is not speaking against all arguments, just the foolish ones. In 17:2-4, Paul reasoned with them from Scripture and persuaded some of them, so what is said against improper ways to teach and make arguments based on Scripture should not be mistaken as speaking against its proper uses, especially when Scripture teaches us how to have a pure heart and an sincere faith toward Christ.

If someone sin once and become a lawbreaker, then they need to repent and to return to obedience to God's law in accordance with what James 2:1-11 was encouraging them to do.

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

(MY NOTE: Every believer has been justified & received Christ' imputed gift of righteousness (Rom 5:17-18). Placing them in a right standing with the Father, thru Faih in Christ, the Lord our righteousness (Jer 23:5, 2 Cor 5:21). Once justified & declared righteous all sins due punishment has been imputed onto Christ. He bought them ALL with His blood)

2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

(MY NOTE: Righteousness is only available thru faith in Christ)

Jesus expressed the righteousness of God by setting an example of how to walk in obedience to His law, so that is also the way that live when we have become the righteousness of God. The way to become the righteousness of God is not by rejecting God's instructions for how to do what is righteous.

Galatians written to believers (Gal 1:2)

Gal 5:
5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

(MY NOTE: Believers keep your Christ given NC liberty. By not getting tangled up in promoting the OC yoke of bondage)

If the Mosaic Covenant were a yoke of bondage, then it would be for bondage that God freed the Israelites our of bondage in Egypt, yet Galatians 5:1 says that it is for freedom that Christ has made us free, which is the opposite of how you are trying to use that verse.

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
MY NOTE: Circumcised, uncircumcised in your flesh makes zero difference, forget about it)

Either there are correct or incorrect reasons for becoming circumcised and Paul only spoke against the incorrect reasons, or accord to Galatian 5:2, Paul caused Christ to be of no value to Timothy when he had him circumcised in Acts 16:3 right after the Jerusalem Council, and Christ is of no value to roughly 80% of the men in the US. In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, however, that was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so they ruled against requiring circumcision for an incorrect purpose, which should not be mistaken as being a ruling against becoming circumcised for the purposes for which God has commanded it. Paul also said in Romans 3:1-2 that circumcision has much value in every way and in Romans 2:25 that circumcision conditionally has value if we keep God's law.

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

(MY NOTE: If you get circumcised or try to obtain righteousness thru self-works. You can't possibly pay the debt owed! If you EVER slip/fail/sin just once & you will slip)

God's law itself came with instructions for what to do when the people sinned, so there was no requirement for perfect obedience, and even if someone managed to live in perfect obedience to God's law, then they still would not earn their righteousness as a wage (Romans 4:4-5), so that has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of the goal of the law. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so to obediently rely on what God has instructed is to rely on God, while thinking that relying on what God has instructed is about relying on our self-works is not giving credit where it is due. Someone who was relying on their self-works would be relying on their own works instead of relying on what God has instructed.

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

(MY NOTE: Trying to obtain righteousness thru self-works. Means your grace ticket never got punched)

In Psalms 119:29-30, David wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness, so this has always been the one and only way of being declared righteous by grace through faith.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

(MY NOTE: Righteousness is Christ imputed thru Faith in HIM. NOT earned thru self-works)

All praise, glory & honor belongs to Jesus the Lord of our righteousness. AMEN & Amen

In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, which is imputed righteousness.

 

[GDL]

1 Tim 1:
3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

(MY NOTE: Paul is telling Timothy to challenge those that try to add anything to their gospel message)

Where is the gospel mentioned? Regarding the doctrine/instruction being taught see 1 Timothy 6:3 & note how many times in 1 Timothy Paul speaks of "godliness".

In 1 Timothy 1:3 Paul wants Timothy to "command" others to not teach differently, divisively - to not teach contrary to standard instruction. This is important for 1 Timothy 1:5.

5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

(MY NOTE Now the END of the commandment is: Love from a pure heart & good conscience mixed with genuine Faith)

In 1 Timothy 1:4 Paul talks about myths and endless/limitless genealogies. This is not the genealogies of the gospels. In this same verse Paul specifies what should be taught - the administration of God which is by Faith - God's Plan which is by Faith. This is explained to some degree in 1:5.

1 Timothy 1:5 The end/goal of the command (1:3) for others to teach God's Plan which is by Faith is [for Christians] to be trained in love from a clean heart & from a good conscience & genuine faith.

This is talking about the training of Christians to mature them & this is why Paul speaks of godliness so many times, beginning in 1 Timothy 2:2. Godliness simply put means living a righteous life like Jesus Christ.

In this context Paul proceeds to say that some have deviated turning into empty talk desiring to be law teachers not understanding what they're confidently talking about 1:6-7

The law is good if used lawfully/correctly. It teaches us what sin is and who is sinful. The statement that it's not given for a righteous man but for the sinful mentioned & anything that opposes accurate teaching simply means it's good for teaching, exposing and convicting sin & anything that opposes accurate teaching according to the good news of the glory of the blessed God.

So, this does not mean the law is not useful to Christians. Nor does it mean that the law has ended & has no further purpose. It still identifies sin & it's being written on the hearts of Christians so they will live according to it in godliness from clean hearts & good consciences & genuine faith. This genuine faith begins with the faith of Christ and the goal of God's Plan is to raise His Children to maturity in this righteousness that accords with His Law.

It exposes anything contrary to the teaching according to God's Gospel.

Romans 1:16-18 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is God's power for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel from faith to faith, just as it is written, "The righteous by faith will live." 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth by their unrighteousness,

Paul in the beginning of 1 Timothy is speaking about the goal of Salvation by Faith - to raise His Children in Christ to live righteously - in godliness.

The law used correctly helps us to know what is and is not righteous - godly. Without it we're just making things up.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Two covenants: Old physical/temproal Mosaic. Now obsolete, replaced by a New Spiritual/eternal Christ administered

Nothing in the old is applicable today. Leave it where it belongs (a foot note in history)

There were many means of purification under the old (obsolete) Mosaic covenant. Legal purifying's (Blood, water etc) instituted by God, given thru Moses.

Then there were traditional added by the Pharisees. Example: washings before a meal. ALL were a shadow of the new Spiritual covenant that was to come & is here NOW!

Acts 15:
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

(MY NOTE: Thru "Faith" (in Christ's sin atoning blood) God's (ultimate purifier) His "Holy Spirit", whom purified the Jews at Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4) & the gentiles (Acts 10:38:40)

Heb 9:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

(MY NOTE: Old Mosaic physical worldly priest gifts & sacrifices (that only covered-"not removed" sin for 1 yr) & didn't/couldn't clear the conscience. Because 24/7 sacrifices reminded everyone of sin that is ever condemning)

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh.

(MY NOTE: These physical/temporal purifying actions were a shadow glimpse of the Holy Spirits ultimate Spiritual/Eternal purification to come. One God blood perpetual sin cleansing offering. When mixed with Faith, REMOVES & FORGIVES sin, cleansing the conscience of ALL sin).

The vein jangling's of today's promoters of an old obsolete worldly covenant, only sow division & strife.

Back to the OP:

A heart pure from the guilt of sin (only obtainable thru Christ New Spiritual covenant) which proceeds from a good conscience & is fueled by genuine faith in Christ & His sin atoning work!

1 Pet 1:
21 Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and glorified Him; and so your faith and hope are in God.

(MY NOTE: Our Hope is in God, not self-works demanded in an old obsolete covenant)

22 Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart.

(MY NOTE: Obedience to the truth is fueled by Faith (Rom 1:5 & 16:26) & genuine love from a pure heart. Is only to be found under Christ's new eternal Spiritual covenant)

23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

(MY NOTE: Believers are ALREADY born again! Not of a physical/temporal origin. But, from imperishable/eternal Spiritual quickening only found in Christ's new covenant!

All praise, glory & honor belong to our great God & Savior, Jesus the Christ. AMEN & Amen

 

[GDL]

Nothing in the old is applicable today. Leave it where it belongs (a foot note in history)

NKJ Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

When you can explain love apart from Law, please let us know.

NKJ 1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Please provide a list of God's commandments we need to keep in order to love Him

The vein jangling's of today's promoters of an old obsolete worldly covenant, only sow division & strife.

Some understand the status of the Covenants including the New Covenant under which God's Law is being written on hearts so we can do righteousness as we're commanded to do in Christ by His Spirit through Faith.

Some misinterpret Apostolic writings to be discussing entrance into Christ issues, when they're really and mainly discussing growth in Christ - growth to godliness for Christians - and using the law lawfully under the New Covenant.

Do you see us vein janglers promoting animal sacrifices?

 

[BrotherJJ]

NKJ 1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
Please provide a list of God's commandments we need to keep in order to love Him.

1 Jn 2:3, 3:23 & 5:4-5 commandments parsed

Invariably people like to add their own contextual application to 1 Jn 2:3, 3:23 & 5:4-5. I.E. the 10 commandments.

Originally scripture wasn't written via chapter & verse, that's added later by translators. Taking one verse out of context invariably leads to doctrinal misinterpretations.

1 Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

(MY NOTE: For John's intended reference to keep his commandments. You must READ ON!)

1 Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

(MY NOTE: What commandment is 1 Jn 2:3 referring to? Keeping Mosaic laws? NO!!! Everyone who believes Christ is the Son of God. The long-promised Messiah/atonement/redeemer. Also see what Jesus say's in Matt 22:36-40 posted below.)

1 Jn 5:
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

(MY NOTE: How does one overcome the world? By keeping Mosaic law commandments? NO! The victory comes via Faith. Faith that Christ's sinless shed blood is the sin atoning rescue to Adam's sin)

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

(MY NOTE: How does someone overcome the sins of the world? By keeping Mosaic law commandments? NO!!! Rereading Vs 4: via FAITH! Faith in what? Rereading Vs 3: That Jesus is the Son of God, the promised Messiah/atonement/redeemer!)

Christ give's HIS commandments.

Matt: 22:
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

(MY NOTE: 1st Love God)

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

(MY NOTE: 2nd Love your brother as thyself)

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

(MY NOTE: These two engulf ALL the others. If you truly Love someone. You won't kill, steal from, bear false witness against, covet their stuff, etc)

Rom 13:
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

(MY NOTE: Love fulfills/satisfies the law)

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

(MY NOTE: If you truly Love someone. You won't kill, steal from, bear false witness against, covet their stuff, etc)

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

(MY NOTE: If you truly Love someone. You won't kill, steal from, bear false witness against, covet their stuff etc)

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
(MY NOTE: Loving your brother fulfills the law of Christ)

Again, what was the commandments Christ gave? Adherence to the old Mosaic covenant? NO! He commanded: Love God 1st & your brother.

Jn 13:
34 Jesus says, A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

(MY NOTE: What's the commandment Christ gave? Adherence to the old Mosaic covenant? NO! Christ commanded: Love your brother as He love you!)

35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

(MY NOTE: How will people know you are a disciple of Christ? Because you adhere to the old Mosaic covenant? NO! They'll know if you love one another!)

Ja 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

(MY NOTE: The royal law is to keep the Mosaic 10? NO! It's Love your brother as yourself)

Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

(MY NOTE: That name is Jesus the Christ, Not Moses)

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
(MY NOTE Grace has a Name - Jesus the Christ!)

For by Grace are you Saved thru FAITH & not thru works/lest you have a reason to boast (Eph 2:8-9)

 

[Clare73]

1 Tim 1:
3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
(MY NOTE: Paul is telling Timothy to challenge those that try to add anything to their gospel message)
4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
(MY NOTE: Challenge those invoking questions about endless genealogies. That detract from our faith message)
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
(MY NOTE Now the END of the commandment is: Love from a pure heart & good conscience mixed with genuine Faith)

6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

(MY NOTE: Wondering into empty arguments & useless discussions, about law invoked punishments that are no longer applicable)

7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

(MY NOTE: These teachings derail the true goal: Love from a pure heart & sincere Faith toward Christ).

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

(MY NOTE: This doctrines problem being: Slip once/break one (all do) you've broken them all & now owe sins required wage/death)

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

(MY NOTE: Every believer has been justified & received Christ' imputed gift of righteousness (Rom 5:17-18). Placing them in a right standing with the Father, thru Faih in Christ, the Lord our righteousness (Jer 23:5, 2 Cor 5:21). Once justified & declared righteous all sins due punishment has been imputed onto Christ. He bought them ALL with His blood)

It's more accurate to say he paid their penalty and the guilt was removed by God.

2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

(MY NOTE: Righteousness is only available thru faith in Christ)

Galatians written to believers (Gal 1:2)

Gal 5:
5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

(MY NOTE: Believers keep your Christ given NC liberty. By not getting tangled up in promoting the OC yoke of bondage)

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
MY NOTE: Circumcised, uncircumcised in your flesh makes zero difference, forget about it)

3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

(MY NOTE: If you get circumcised or try to obtain righteousness thru self-works. You can't possibly pay the debt owed! If you EVER slip/fail/sin just once & you will slip)

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

(MY NOTE: Trying to obtain righteousness thru self-works. Means your grace ticket never got punched)

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

(MY NOTE: Righteousness is Christ imputed thru Faith in HIM. NOT earned thru self-works)

All praise, glory & honor belongs to Jesus the Lord of our righteousness. AMEN & Amen

 

[GDL]

BrotherJJ: I appreciate all the work you post, but I'm just going to touch on a few points:

(MY NOTE: For John's intended reference to keep his commandments. You must READ ON!)

It's my practice to pay attention to context.

(MY NOTE: Love fulfills/satisfies the law)

Fulfills/satisfies also means "completes" in the sense of love doing everything law says. The key for any era is to know what the points of law are, or to be inherently doing them, which would be to love. With Law written on our hearts it will be our nature to be living according to Law, which means it will be our nature to Love.

(MY NOTE: If you truly Love someone. You won't kill, steal from, bear false witness against, covet their stuff, etc)

Agree. So, we will be living according to what the Law says - completing Law.

(MY NOTE: Loving your brother fulfills the law of Christ)

Actually, Gal6 implies love for one another, but it specifies how this is done: Paul uses the word "spiritual" to mean "mature". In Hebrews 5 the mature are said to be those who have become learned and skilled in the "Word of Righteousness" and have had their faculties well-exercised in judging both good and bad. So, back to Galatians 6, the spiritual/mature are said to be able to identify any sin and imitating Christ they bear the burdens of a "man" who is overtaken by any trespass/violation (violation of what?) which is elsewhere also said to be sin. This is assisting others to deal with and repent from sin, which is lawlessness, which means we're still dealing with Law in completing the Law of Christ.

(MY NOTE: The royal law is to keep the Mosaic 10? NO! It's Love your brother as yourself)

You're a bit stuck on Moses. Those who study God's Law are aware that it contains commandments seen before Moses and after Moses. IOW, there are core standards in God's Law that do not change. We've been discussing this on another thread. Although the Covenant has been changed, these core standards, commandments, instructions, do not change and have not changed in Christ. What has changed is how they are to be kept. They still make up what it means to love God and neighbor and one another.

(MY NOTE: That name is Jesus the Christ, Not Moses)

Again, you misunderstand. Those of us who view Law differently than you do know and believe Jesus is the Christ (BTW, I appreciate how you said "the Christ') and we know where our justification/acquittal came from. There's a difference between thinking we can do law for this justification and seeing that God's Law is still instructional for sin vs. righteousness and that His core standards of Law are being written on our heart so we can love.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Actually, Gal6 implies love for one another, but it specifies how this is done: Paul uses the word "spiritual" to mean "mature". In Hebrews 5 the mature are said to be those who have become learned and skilled in the "Word of Righteousness" and have had their faculties well-exercised in judging both good and bad. So, back to Galatians 6, the spiritual/mature are said to be able to identify any sin and imitating Christ they bear the burdens of a "man" who is overtaken by any trespass/violation (violation of what?) which is elsewhere also said to be sin. This is assisting others to deal with and repent from sin, which is lawlessness, which means we're still dealing with Law in completing the Law of Christ.

Using Galatian to promote (obsolete) Mosaic law keeping is quite the stretch.


Paul's epistle to the Galatians is a vigorous attack against: The Pre-Cross-law doctrine of works.

The epistle is an aggressive defense of: The Post-Cross doctrine of grace, faith, & forgiveness which results produce love.

The letters core message: Believers in Gods Son are justified = Judicially Declared Righteous by a sovereign creator God.

Through Faith placed in the finished sin atoning redemptive work of Jesus the Christ. Not in our own good works or good deeds of OC Mosaic law keeping.

The law's purpose was to expose sin, condemn & sentences the sinner to DEATH without mercy! To claim this somehow is a vehicle to love is contradictory.

Man's blessings come from God on the basis of His grace & faith placed in His Sons sin atoning work.

Spirit filled faith leads one to produce the fruits love, godly works & the essence of brotherhood.

 

[GDL]

Using Galatian to promote (obsolete) Mosaic law keeping is quite the stretch.


Paul's epistle to the Galatians is a vigorous attack against: The Pre-Cross-law doctrine of works.

The epistle is an aggressive defense of: The Post-Cross doctrine of grace, faith, & forgiveness which results produce love.

The letters core message: Believers in Gods Son are justified = Judicially Declared Righteous by a sovereign creator God.

Through Faith placed in the finished sin atoning redemptive work of Jesus the Christ. Not in our own good works or good deeds of OC Mosaic law keeping.

The law's purpose was to expose sin, condemn & sentences the sinner to DEATH without mercy! To claim this somehow is a vehicle to love is contradictory.

Man's blessings come from God on the basis of His grace & faith placed in His Sons sin atoning work.

Spirit filled faith leads one to produce the fruits love, godly works & the essence of brotherhood.

Once again, you understand the justification issue, and so do those of us who study Law. What you fail to understand is how the Christian relates to the core commandments of righteous standards taught in God's Law.

What you also fail to do is correlate both, on the one hand, how Law exposes & instructs about lawlessness, which is hatred of God, and in doing so, on the other hand, also instructs about lawfulness, which is righteousness, which is love for God and neighbor.

You focus so hard on one side of the Law and negate the other, which defines love.

We (at least some of us) are not focused on Moses or trying to follow Moses or go back to Moses. Rather we're looking at the greatest written codification of Law from God that exists, and attempting to see what the timeless, core commandments of God are for all people and what is being written on our hearts in Christ, once justified & freed from the imprisonment & dominion of lawlessness that held us. We're looking at what love looks like while growing in the Grace, Faith & knowledge of Christ our Savior and obeying in mind and deed the timeless commandments and will of God our Savior.

 

[GDL]

Spirit filled faith leads one to produce the fruits love, godly works & the essence of brotherhood.

Nice statement, but unless you refer to God's Law, you can't tell me what love is, what exactly the Spirit is producing in you.

 

[Clare73]

Nice statement, but unless you refer to God's Law,
you can't tell me what love is, what exactly the Spirit is producing in you.

Au contraire. . .it's not rocket science.

Love is "Do no harm;" i.e., committed to another's well-being as you are to your own.

I don't need a legal code for that. . .in fact, it would be inadequate.

 

[GDL]

Au contraire. . .it's not rocket science.

Love is "Do no harm;" i.e., committed to another's well-being as you are to your own.

I don't need a legal code for that. . .in fact, it would be inadequate.

Same back to you, especially in our time, where love being doing no harm to another can and is easily construed as live & let live, not arguing against things like gender ideology, etc., etc. that we deal with today, and letting the unlearned use the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" while separating in from the context and remainder of Jesus's statement, "for this (saying) is the Law and the Prophets". It's basically the same as saying love neighbor summarizes God's commandments, which means you're hard-pressed to explain what Biblical Love is apart from His Commandments.

Maybe you were one of the ones who Paul spoke about in Romans 2:14 and had a natural proclivity to some degree towards obeying God. You may think you don't need a legal code of righteous standards, but you'd be hard-pressed to show us any of your proper Biblical character aligns with God apart from what His Law says. Also, unless you can provide a comprehensive instruction of Law from God's Word, you can't really convince that His Law given to us is inadequate. Our understanding is inadequate, not His Word.

Then there's the issue of His Legal Code being written on our hearts, but you don't need it?

 

[Clare73]

Same back to you, especially in our time, where love being doing no harm to another can and is easily construed as live & let live, not arguing against things like gender ideology, etc., etc. that we deal with today, and letting the unlearned use the "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" while separating in from the context and remainder of Jesus's statement, "for this (saying) is the Law and the Prophets". It's basically the same as saying love neighbor summarizes God's commandments, which means you're hard-pressed to explain what Biblical Love is apart from His Commandments.

Maybe you were one of the ones who Paul spoke about in Romans 2:14 and had a natural proclivity to some degree towards obeying God. You may think you don't need a legal code of righteous standards, but you'd be hard-pressed to show us any of your proper Biblical character aligns with God apart from what His Law says. Also, unless you can provide a comprehensive instruction of Law from God's Word, you can't really convince that His Law given to us is inadequate. Our understanding is inadequate, not His Word.

Then there's the issue of His Legal Code being written on our hearts, but you don't need it?

Does your analysis include the fact that the born again's love is by enablement of the Holy Spirit and NT teaching, and not by "live and let live"?

 

[GDL]

Does your analysis include the fact that the born again's love is by enablement of the Holy Spirit and NT teaching, and not by "live and let live"?

It includes enablement of GHS and having God's Law written on our hearts which is directly correlated to the new birth in EZ36 and walking in God's statutes and keeping and doing His judgments.

Do no harm as you stated is a paraphrase, even a wrong translation of what Romans 13 actually says.

Romans 13:10 literally says: "The love [to] the neighbor, works not bad/evil. Therefore, the love fulfills fills/completes law".

Context is the command in 13:8 owe no one anything except to love one another.

• The explanation for this is that one who is loving the other has fulfilled/completed law.
  • So, the command is effectively to complete law
    • The explanation for this is that the 4 of the 10 Commandments listed "and if any other command" (grammatical structure is assuming there is, and this is typically a rhetorical device to get the reader involved to say, but of course there is!) is summed up / recapped in the word/saying, "You will/shall love your neighbor as yourself".

In effect:

• Be indebted to one another to love one another
  • Love means to complete Law
    • The command to love neighbor is a recap of our thoughts and actions toward one another contained in God's Commandments (the 4 of 10 + others)
    • To love neighbor/do God's Commandments (the 4 of 10 + others) means to not work evil to a neighbor
  • Love is the completion of Law

So, your Do no harm is really Don't work evil - bad/evil is spelled out in Law and instruction, on the one hand, which on the other hand therefore instructs of good & righteousness.

As I essentially said, you're (we're all) hard-pressed to explain and identify Biblical Love apart from God's Commandments contained in God's Law. If we use your Do no harm concept, which is actually Don't work evil, we best be able to identify what is evil.

 

[BrotherJJ]

once justified & freed from the imprisonment & dominion of lawlessness that held us. We're looking at what love looks like while growing in the Grace, Faith & knowledge of Christ our Savior and obeying in mind and deed the timeless commandments and will of God our Savior.

If you understand justification & this verse:

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

(MY NOTE: Verse say's TWICE!' Man is not justified by the works of the law. For by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Why is law promoting the main focus of your message?

My mother & father (neither a Christian) loved me. Provided for & protected (best they could), chastised me when I broke their rules. When I was 15 & acting out in various unexpectable behaviors. Thank God, they didn't stone me to death. (Num 15:36).

A mother bear has no knowledge of nor obligation to any Mosaic laws. Yet she nurtures, provides for, protects (loves) her cubs.

Jn 13:34 Jesus says, A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
(MY NOTE: I cited this verse in a reply to you in post #6. NOTE: A NEW commandment)

Jn 15:13 Jesus said, Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

He died (a brutal) death for me. I owe Him everything I am/have (void of any obsolete OT law covenant). In return thru the apostle (Paul) whom Christ chose & sent to lead me to Himself. With the help/leadership of Christ's Holy Spirit. I do my best to live acceptable to/before Him (again void of any obsolete OT law covenant. That I am not or ever was under!).

In Post #4 (NOT addressed to any one person in particular) I wrote this: The vein jangling's of today's promoters of an old obsolete worldly covenant, only sow division & strife. I had these two verses in mind (1 Tim 1:6 part of the post & Tit 3:9) & you took offence.

Can you cite one place in these exchanges where anyone (especially the Lord) is edified?

Jesus's death & resurrection is history's inflection point. The old physical/temporal Mosaic law covenant is retired. It isn't the message for today's NT Body of Christ.

A new better Eternal/Spiritual Christ administered covenant is the NT (Jew & Gentile) message is today's focus.

I stand behind my promoted position in every post. You're free to promote whatever you choose. Peace, JJ

 

[Clare73]

It includes enablement of GHS and having God's Law written on our hearts which is directly correlated to the new birth in EZ36 and walking in God's statutes and keeping and doing His judgments.

Do no harm as you stated is a paraphrase, even a wrong translation of what Romans 13 actually says.

I was referring to neither with that statement, but simply to the adage.

Romans 13:10 literally says: "The love [to] the neighbor, works not bad/evil. Therefore, the love fulfills fills/completes law".
Context is the command in 13:8 owe no one anything except to love one another.
The explanation for this is that one who is loving the other has fulfilled/completed law.
. . .As I essentially said, you're (we're all) hard-pressed to explain and identify Biblical Love apart from God's Commandments contained in God's Law.

Actually, Biblical love is explained in:
"The commandments. . .and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up (Matthew 7:12) in this one rule."
Obeying the one rule is equal to obeying all the rules.

The sum is equal to its parts.
Having obedience to the sum is equal to having obedience to its parts.
If I have the car, I do not need to add steering wheel, engine and body. . .I already possess a full car.
If I have love, I do not need to add additional performance. . .I already possess full performance.

"The commandments. . .and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' "
And thereby, I already possess obedience to the commandments.

It's not complicated. . .

 

[Original Happy Camper]

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

(MY NOTE: These two engulf ALL the others. If you truly Love someone. You won't kill, steal from, bear false witness against, covet their stuff, etc)

SO YOU OBEY THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT?

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[GDL]

I was referring to neither with that statement, but simply to the adage.

What's the adage and what do we care about it if it's not from God's Word?

Actually, Biblical love is explained in:
"The commandments. . .and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up (Matthew 7:12) in this one rule."
Obeying the one rule is equal to obeying all the rules.

The sum is equal to its parts.
Having obedience to the sum is equal to having obedience to its parts.
If I have the car, I do not need to add steering wheel, engine and body. . .I already possess a full car.
If I have love, I do not need to add additional performance. . .I already possess full performance.

"The commandments. . .and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' "
And thereby, I already possess obedience to the commandments.

It's not complicated. . .

But apparently it is complicated for some who for whatever reason desire to have no concern for the parts and profess to have the whole. And the analogy to the car is fun, but not meaningful. Similar to love, I doubt you'd know if you're driving with all parts or with all parts in perfect performance or not.

If obeying the one rule is equal to obeying all the rules, then logic says obeying all the rules is equal to obeying the one rule. I'd agree with this, and I think this is what Paul is saying. But it works both ways, not just the one way you're using. Yet many want to say we have nothing to do with all the rules and still say they're in obedience to the one.

If someone more learned and mature than you should walk up and say, Sister, what are you doing not acting in love and show you the rule you're not obeying, and was correct, would you argue & oppose him? If the Spirit similarly taps your conscience and awareness, would you oppose Him (1 John 1:10)?

So, you're saying you "already possess full" love. Are you saying you already walk fully according to God's commandments? Pardon me for not trusting your opinion. I doubt you really see yourself as being fully conformed to Christ's likeness.

Really, it's not about possession anyway, love is doing. And we can't know we're doing in truth unless we understand the truth in all its parts. You may think you're playing with a full deck, sorry, wrong metaphor, or in possession of a full car, functioning in full performance, but someone who knows all the parts and what full performance is, can prove you wrong. Same with love & all rules (the 4+ any other - what do you mean if there are any other?! Of course, there are!) it includes.

 

[GDL]

I stand behind my promoted position in every post. You're free to promote whatever you choose. Peace, JJ

And you're free to do so, too, JJ. But you still replace Law pertaining to Christian living with Law for justification, which shows you do not understand the discussion about Law and the commandments of God that are still pertinent to Christian living in the New Covenant and Law of Christ.

Do you truly expect to post Scripture with some potentially incorrect interpretive notes and expect them to be accepted without comment? Have I seen you in a pulpit somewhere?