Righteousness exalts a nation

D

dbcsf

Guest
That's a nice, succinct way of putting it. And I obviously agree. The country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Now it seems our foundation (if we still have one) is crumbling.

I do agree completely. We were founded on Judeo - Christian principles. I agree also that our vision of a Utopian society based on the ideals expressed or implied by our founding fathers is slipping away. I also very much agree that changing people's attitudes is far more important than passing new laws.
 
Upvote 0
L

Life2Christ

Guest
I also very much agree that changing people's attitudes is far more important than passing new laws.

What about the righteous people in the US who love the Lord. Do they have to suffer to? Remember when Lot (was it Lot or someone else?) asked God "If 15 people were holy in the city would you destroy them along with the city?" and God said no. Then Lot said, "what if only 5 people were holy, were you still destroy them with everyone else?" and God said no.

Remember, you cannot change people only yourself. You can try to change people's attitude but it is a risk with low odds.
 
Upvote 0

WinBySurrender

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2011
3,670
155
.
✟4,924.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
What about the righteous people in the US who love the Lord. Do they have to suffer to? Remember when Lot (was it Lot or someone else?) asked God "If 15 people were holy in the city would you destroy them along with the city?" and God said no. Then Lot said, "what if only 5 people were holy, were you still destroy them with everyone else?" and God said no.
One, it was Abraham, not Lot, who asked. Two, he stopped asking at 10. However your question, "Do they have to suffer to?" is a valid one and the answer is yes and no. Until the Rapture, we will suffer the consequences of a declining moral and spiritual ethic in this country, and more than likely will be subject to the kind of persecution that our brothers and sisters in Micronesia, China, South Yemen and a host of other nations and regions of the world are facing. I can't help but laugh when Americans speak of the "persecution" we face because we don't even know what persecution is, compared to what exists overseas now and will not that long from now come to roost in the US. But the Rapture is coming and judgment on the world will follow, though it must suffer even further atrocities at the hands of the antichrist and his minions. But Jesus is coming, first for us, then for judgment, and that is the blessing to the world.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I do agree completely. We were founded on Judeo - Christian principles. I agree also that our vision of a Utopian society based on the ideals expressed or implied by our founding fathers is slipping away.

Our country was founded on the values of Western Civilization which were partially derived from our Christian experience.
 
Upvote 0

Contented

Newbie
Aug 1, 2011
519
20
Barbados
✟15,773.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
This post isn't directed towards anyone, but I just want to go public with a thought I've had for a long time. The USA used to be a great and powerful nation. While compared to some others, it's still a good place to live, but I think we've been going downhill for quite a while now. People will debate issues and ask, "What's wrong if we allow xyz?" Well, we've been allowing many "xyz's" to creep into our society for a long time, and I think that's what has taken us down. Prov. 14:34 says, "Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people." I think today's society is living proof of that.


You are absolutely correct. Not only the USA but many other nations as well.
The sad thing is that the modern church has allowed the standards of the world, the humanist philosphy to creep into the church. The church's refusal to call sin by its rightful name hinder the church in its witness to the nation. I believe that the church has lost its vision. The church has become weak morally so the nation will become weak morally too. A nation that has forsaken God can only look forward to judgement and destruction.
 
Upvote 0

DesertScroll

Member
Jul 19, 2007
240
1
51
✟7,896.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
That's a nice, succinct way of putting it. And I obviously agree. The country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Now it seems our foundation (if we still have one) is crumbling.

Our country was founded on the values of Western Civilization which were partially derived from our Christian experience.

I agree, but with a caveat. The second commandment is evil without the first (Matt 22:36-40).
Christian values, without God is not good. Matt 7:21-23 shows this. Which is why I said The United States is not righteous, but of Caesar.

But ya, the further away from those values, the further the country will fall.

But by design. So be sad when evil prevails... but don't forget to open your eyes and see what God is doing :thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

dysert

Member
Feb 29, 2012
6,233
2,238
USA
✟112,984.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You are absolutely correct. Not only the USA but many other nations as well.
The sad thing is that the modern church has allowed the standards of the world, the humanist philosphy to creep into the church. The church's refusal to call sin by its rightful name hinder the church in its witness to the nation. I believe that the church has lost its vision. The church has become weak morally so the nation will become weak morally too. A nation that has forsaken God can only look forward to judgement and destruction.

I'm sure you're right, but I could only speak to what I know, and that's the country I live in. But I also know the Church, and it seems like we're becoming more like Corinth year by year:
"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles--that a man has his father's wife! And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you." (1 Cor. 5:1-2)
Instead of speaking out against unrighteousness, we wink at it, accept it, and even pride ourselves on being inclusive. Jesus said we are the salt of the earth; "but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men." (Matt. 5:13)

And just as judgment is due on the Church, so too is judgment due on the nation:
"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things." (Rom. 1:20-23)
"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them." (Rom. 1:28-32)

Things aren't looking good :-(
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

dysert

Member
Feb 29, 2012
6,233
2,238
USA
✟112,984.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Our country was founded on the values of Western Civilization which were partially derived from our Christian experience.


I won't disagree with "partially", but I suspect it's a pretty large percentage. Just look at some of the stuff coming out of the Founding Fathers:
  • Andrew Jackson -- The Bible is the rock on which our republic rests
  • Declaration of Independence -- appeals to the "Supreme Judge of the world"
  • Declaration of Independence -- calls on the "reliance on the protection of Divine Providence"
  • John Adams -- "I must beg you to read that Psalm ... read the thirty-fifth Psalm to your friends. Read it to your father.
  • John Adams -- "Millions will be upon their knees at once before their great Creator, imploring His forgiveness and blessings; His smiles on American councils and arms."
  • John Adams -- "It appears to me the eternal Son of God is operating powerfully against the British nation."
  • George Washington -- "The hand of Providence has been so conspicuous in all this that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations"
  • John Adams -- "The general principles on which the Fathers achieved independence were the ... general principles of Christianity"
  • John Witherspoon -- "I entreat you in the most earnest manner to believe in Jesus Christ, for there is no salvation in any other. If you are not reconciled to God through Jesus Christ - if you are not clothed with the spotless robe of His righteousness - you must forever perish."
  • Charles Thompson -- "I am a Christian. I believe only in the Scriptures, and in Jesus Christ my Savior."
  • Benjamin Rush -- "My only hope of salvation is in the infinite transcendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of His Son upon the cross. Nothing but His blood will wash away my sins. I rely exclusively upon it. Come Lord Jesus! Come quickly!"
  • Samuel Adams -- "I rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins."
  • Roger Sherman -- "God commands all men everywhere to repent. He also commands them to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and has assured us that all who do repent and believe shall be saved. God has promised to bestow eternal blessings on all those who are willing to accept Him on the terms of the Gospel - that is, in a way of free grace through the Atonement."
  • John Adams -- "The Holy Ghost carries on the whole Christian system in His truth. Not a baptism, not a marriage, not a sacrament can be administered but by the Holy Ghost. There is no authority, civil or religious - there can be no legitimate government - but what is administered by the Holy Ghost. There can be no salvation without it. All without it is rebellion and perdition, or, in more orthodox words, damnation."
  • Charles Carroll -- "I am grateful to Almighty God for the blessings which, through Jesus Christ our Lord, He has conferred on my beloved country."
  • Charles Carroll -- "On the mercy of my Redeemer I rely for salvation, and on His merits; not on the works I have done in obedience to His precepts."
  • George Washington -- "Of all the habits and dispositions which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars."
  • Mathias Burnet -- "To God and posterity you are accountable for your rights and your rulers. Let not your children have reason to curse you for giving up those rights and prostrating those institutions which your fathers delivered to you."
 
Upvote 0

dysert

Member
Feb 29, 2012
6,233
2,238
USA
✟112,984.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Generally, I believe each generation has to fight this fight.

<snip>

We are what we are, and this generation is no different than the last.

Yes, each generation does have to fight the fight, but I'm afraid that we've been losing the fight for quite a while now. This generation *is* different from the last. If I talk to folks in the older generation they tell me that they think things have gotten worse over their lifetime (say, 80 years). And objectively, I think this is true. What used to be absolutely taboo is not only spoken of freely but is even celebrated. What passes for "entertainment" now is licentiousness. Respect for authority is gone. Respect for the property of others is gone. The work ethic that contributed towards this country's success is gone.

I'm sure many of us could go on and on about how downhill we've gone in just the past few generations. I just hope it's not too late to try turning things around.
 
Upvote 0
Dec 6, 2011
381
24
California
✟15,664.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The old have always chided the young for lack of respect and work ethic, but I think the problem is much more insidious than that now. Children are being taught some very dangerous things in school from a very young age that undermine the Republic and God's word.

First God's word isn't respected in any way shape or form. Separation of church is used like a club to exclude any discussion of right and wrong from the debate. Here on these forums, we care what the bible says. We measure the goodness or badness of situations, laws and events against a biblical yardstick. Not necessarily imposing the bible, but considering it and weighing it. The young are taught this is a no no.

Second, having excluded God's word from the discussion, certain principles are introduced as foundational that are inconsistent and sometimes in direct opposition to God's word. For example, population explosion is taught as a fundamental principle. That there are too many people on the earth and people need to stop procreating. Contraceptives are freely available, so it's taught that there's no reason to have too many children. This of course, is in direct opposition to the word of God.

Another example is the green agenda. Children are taught mother nature is above all other concerns. That the air and water must be ever cleaner and that nature, clean and pure is the ultimate objective. This philosophy places the needs of nature above man. Also in direct contradiction to God's word. God's word can't be spoken in school, though. So, the children have been raised to believe these things. They believe it like Muslims believe the Qur'an. It is fundamental to who they are and they will probably always return to those principles, because they were inculcated when they were so young. They would and will argue we are inculcated.

Finally, the unapologetic gays. Children are taught gays and gay behavior is perfectly fine, in direct contradiction to God's word. They are literally taught to ignore their bigoted parents and to accept everyone as equally good, no matter this depravity. This one time they may slip in "the bible teaches us to love one another," so they can effectively negate their parents attempts to teach God's way. At no other time would a public school teacher be caught mentioning the bible, other than to twist its meaning in this way.

These are some of the reasons we as a nation are headed for very big trouble. We no longer have a common basis for making decisions. Satan has accomplished his goal of indoctrinating children. The corruption is fundamental and even though those children, now grown up, could read the truth of the bible, they simply can't agree with God's words. Thus, we talk past each other. One has only to look at recent discussions on these forums to see the gay, green and ZPG (zero population growth) agendas put forth in direct opposition to God's word. I'm afraid this is a path-of-no-return and that if our nation continues to fall out of favor with God and thus, self-destructs, historians (in heaven?) will trace the failure to teaching our children Satan's way, instead of God's way.

.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I won't disagree with "partially", but I suspect it's a pretty large percentage. Just look at some of the stuff coming out of the Founding Fathers:
  • Andrew Jackson -- The Bible is the rock on which our republic rests
  • Declaration of Independence -- appeals to the "Supreme Judge of the world"
  • Declaration of Independence -- calls on the "reliance on the protection of Divine Providence"
  • John Adams -- "I must beg you to read that Psalm ... read the thirty-fifth Psalm to your friends. Read it to your father.
  • John Adams -- "Millions will be upon their knees at once before their great Creator, imploring His forgiveness and blessings; His smiles on American councils and arms."
  • John Adams -- "It appears to me the eternal Son of God is operating powerfully against the British nation."
  • George Washington -- "The hand of Providence has been so conspicuous in all this that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations"
  • John Adams -- "The general principles on which the Fathers achieved independence were the ... general principles of Christianity"
  • John Witherspoon -- "I entreat you in the most earnest manner to believe in Jesus Christ, for there is no salvation in any other. If you are not reconciled to God through Jesus Christ - if you are not clothed with the spotless robe of His righteousness - you must forever perish."
  • Charles Thompson -- "I am a Christian. I believe only in the Scriptures, and in Jesus Christ my Savior."
  • Benjamin Rush -- "My only hope of salvation is in the infinite transcendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of His Son upon the cross. Nothing but His blood will wash away my sins. I rely exclusively upon it. Come Lord Jesus! Come quickly!"
  • Samuel Adams -- "I rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins."
  • Roger Sherman -- "God commands all men everywhere to repent. He also commands them to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and has assured us that all who do repent and believe shall be saved. God has promised to bestow eternal blessings on all those who are willing to accept Him on the terms of the Gospel - that is, in a way of free grace through the Atonement."
  • John Adams -- "The Holy Ghost carries on the whole Christian system in His truth. Not a baptism, not a marriage, not a sacrament can be administered but by the Holy Ghost. There is no authority, civil or religious - there can be no legitimate government - but what is administered by the Holy Ghost. There can be no salvation without it. All without it is rebellion and perdition, or, in more orthodox words, damnation."
  • Charles Carroll -- "I am grateful to Almighty God for the blessings which, through Jesus Christ our Lord, He has conferred on my beloved country."
  • Charles Carroll -- "On the mercy of my Redeemer I rely for salvation, and on His merits; not on the works I have done in obedience to His precepts."
  • George Washington -- "Of all the habits and dispositions which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars."
  • Mathias Burnet -- "To God and posterity you are accountable for your rights and your rulers. Let not your children have reason to curse you for giving up those rights and prostrating those institutions which your fathers delivered to you."


Many of the Founding Fathers (and any on your list, like Andrew Jackson, who were not Founding Fathers) were practicing Christians, yes. However, that should not be confused with the form of government that they gave us or where the fundamental ideas built into that form of government came from. Property rights, personal liberty, and so on, are more the product of Western history and centuries of developing concepts of human rights than anything found specifically in the Bible or the doctrines of their respective churches. We are indebted to these men, in part, because they did NOT attempt to force an established church upon the new country. They attributed the origin of many of their political standards to God without further elaboration.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Dec 6, 2011
381
24
California
✟15,664.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Few argue for a theocracy, certainly not me. I do take exception when man's law directly opposes God's law, though. When government orders the citizen to do the opposite of what God orders and thus, creates a crisis of conscious. This potential for conflict is a (necessary and sufficient) reason for schools to at least touch on Christian principles and to accept biblical teachings to some small extent. Not to impose God's laws through government, but simply to ensure no law is written placing the citizen in jeopardy of state punishment or crossing the God of Israel as the only two choices.

For this and the reasons in my previous post (#33), competition in public schools should be introduced and private schools allowed to compete. If we don't allow, nay require, Judeo-Christian principles into our thought processes, we will lose our place in the world. We will lose our standard of living, our leadership position, our freedoms and possibly our sovereignty.

.
 
Upvote 0
L

Lovely Lane

Guest
I won't disagree with "partially", but I suspect it's a pretty large percentage. Just look at some of the stuff coming out of the Founding Fathers:
  • Andrew Jackson -- The Bible is the rock on which our republic rests
  • Declaration of Independence -- appeals to the "Supreme Judge of the world"
  • Declaration of Independence -- calls on the "reliance on the protection of Divine Providence"
  • John Adams -- "I must beg you to read that Psalm ... read the thirty-fifth Psalm to your friends. Read it to your father.
  • John Adams -- "Millions will be upon their knees at once before their great Creator, imploring His forgiveness and blessings; His smiles on American councils and arms."
  • John Adams -- "It appears to me the eternal Son of God is operating powerfully against the British nation."
  • George Washington -- "The hand of Providence has been so conspicuous in all this that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations"
  • John Adams -- "The general principles on which the Fathers achieved independence were the ... general principles of Christianity"
  • John Witherspoon -- "I entreat you in the most earnest manner to believe in Jesus Christ, for there is no salvation in any other. If you are not reconciled to God through Jesus Christ - if you are not clothed with the spotless robe of His righteousness - you must forever perish."
  • Charles Thompson -- "I am a Christian. I believe only in the Scriptures, and in Jesus Christ my Savior."
  • Benjamin Rush -- "My only hope of salvation is in the infinite transcendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of His Son upon the cross. Nothing but His blood will wash away my sins. I rely exclusively upon it. Come Lord Jesus! Come quickly!"
  • Samuel Adams -- "I rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins."
  • Roger Sherman -- "God commands all men everywhere to repent. He also commands them to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and has assured us that all who do repent and believe shall be saved. God has promised to bestow eternal blessings on all those who are willing to accept Him on the terms of the Gospel - that is, in a way of free grace through the Atonement."
  • John Adams -- "The Holy Ghost carries on the whole Christian system in His truth. Not a baptism, not a marriage, not a sacrament can be administered but by the Holy Ghost. There is no authority, civil or religious - there can be no legitimate government - but what is administered by the Holy Ghost. There can be no salvation without it. All without it is rebellion and perdition, or, in more orthodox words, damnation."
  • Charles Carroll -- "I am grateful to Almighty God for the blessings which, through Jesus Christ our Lord, He has conferred on my beloved country."
  • Charles Carroll -- "On the mercy of my Redeemer I rely for salvation, and on His merits; not on the works I have done in obedience to His precepts."
  • George Washington -- "Of all the habits and dispositions which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars."
  • Mathias Burnet -- "To God and posterity you are accountable for your rights and your rulers. Let not your children have reason to curse you for giving up those rights and prostrating those institutions which your fathers delivered to you."
Personal opinions were kept separate from government business in the day of statesmen. Just review the treaty of Tripoli and see what I mean.
 
Upvote 0

WinBySurrender

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2011
3,670
155
.
✟4,924.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Personal opinions were kept separate from government business in the day of statesmen. Just review the treaty of Tripoli and see what I mean.
The Treaty of Tripoli is a red herring. No one claims the US is a democratic theocracy, though everyone who brings up the Treaty of Tripoli acts as though that is the argument regarding the nature of the men who founded this country. The fact is, the democracy of the US is found in no other place except the principles Jesus taught to His disciples. No other nation has attempted to offer the level of freedom and participation in government that the US has. The men who founded this nation were, to varying degrees, men of God who trusted in the Creator of the universe to guide them in establishing this nation and to govern it justly. Far more so than our current president, or even George W. Bush or Jimmy Carter, who were very overt about their faith.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums