Rick Warren

[Leah]

Such Was I: Purpose Driven Craziness


Watch out for Rick Warren and his 'theology'.

 

[probinson]

Well, there goes 5 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

 

[Faulty]

Well, he's a man who will quote out-of-context scripture in his services from half a dozen or so translations/paraphrases until he finds one he likes typically in his sermons.

He claims the gift of evangelism and yet never proclaims the gospel when talking to groups of unbelievers, and even told a large group of them during his TED presentation that "God smiles when you be you" (which coincidently, I had just listened to again this morning).

He's currently allowing mysticism and eastern theology to come from his pulpit and bookstore through his current 'Daniel Plan', through the likes of Doctors Amen, Hymen, and Oz. (which is odd in itself since it's goal is to lose weight, but the scripture it's based on results in Daniel and his friends actually gaining weight - Dan 1:11-16).

He refered to Jesus as Isa on the prayer during Obama's inauguration, which is the Muslin false version of Jesus, not the same revealed in scripture.

There's just a lot of stuff about him. I have the Saddleback app on my iPhone and frankly I'm just stunned sometimes at the foolishness, but don't expect anyone to care.

 

[Ajax 777]

[snip] ....frankly I'm just stunned sometimes at the foolishness, but don't expect anyone to care.

Then you do well.

 

[Leimeng]

~ No one except for the GODHEAD has the entirety of correct knowledge of the things of GOD. So of course there will be areas that Warren is off.
~ There are a whole lot of people out there who are a whole lot more off than Rick Warren, yet are still considered by most to be part of the Body of Christ.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***))

 

[AudioArtist]

I recommend people watch his interview with John Piper in its entirety for themselves:

John Piper Interviews Rick Warren on Doctrine - Desiring God

 

[Faulty]

I recommend people watch his interview with John Piper in its entirety for themselves:

John Piper Interviews Rick Warren onÂ[bless and do not curse]Doctrine - Desiring God

So would I, then ask yourself why Piper even felt he needed to interview Warren, after 20+ years of ministry, to find out what he believes.

It's one of the problems with Warren. He'll say whatever the audience he's speaking to wants to hear, which is a source of confusion with him.

Then I'd suggest lestening to this: Fighting for the Faith: Piper / Warren Debrief With Phil Johnson Part 1

 

[Leah]

So would I, then ask yourself why Piper even felt he needed to interview Warren, after 20+ years of ministry, to find out what he believes.

It's one of the problems with Warren. He'll say whatever the audience he's speaking to wants to hear, which is a source of confusion with him.

Then I'd suggest lestening to this: Fighting for the Faith: Piper / Warren Debrief With Phil Johnson Part 1

Thank you.

 

[Leimeng]

~ Piper is a Calvinist and sometime cessationist. Why would you listen to a false teacher with blatently anti-Biblical and anti-Christian doctrines talk about other Christians?
~ Not that anyone is has a perfect theological construct but it helps to have someone with a real Biblical world view over a false teacher discussing other ministers of the Gospel.

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

 

[Ajax 777]

~ Piper is a Calvinist and sometime cessationist. Why would you listen to a false teacher with blatently anti-Biblical and anti-Christian doctrines talk about other Christians?

I know a couple of Calvinists who, IN SPITE of being Calvinist, are possibly the most sound-minded and well-grounded people I know when it comes to the truth, and there are a great deal of false appearances passing themselves as the genuine giftings, just like there are many false "Christians" who bring reproach upon the name of Christ by their farce. What makes you think your views on this are the correct ones?

Doesn't pride goeth before destruction?

~ Not that anyone is has a perfect theological construct but it helps to have someone with a real Biblical world view over a false teacher discussing other ministers of the Gospel.

And I'm sure many who didn't like Yeshua's teachings
also said He was the false Teacher, and thought His was the wrong view.

We all know how that turned out, don't we?

 

[TasManOfGod]

here we go again -around and around fighting about our relatives

 

[Faulty]

I was just going through my Twitter and noticed these two from Pastor Rick just two days ago:

"Never retaliate when people say unkind things about you.Pay them back with a blessing..& God willl BLESS YOU!"1 Pet.3:9
web • 6/4/11 7:22 PM

Leaders are self-critical. Losers are critical of others.
Dragon Dictation • 6/4/11 1:45 PM

Anyone else see the irony?

 

[Simon_Templar]

Is it bad that one of the negatives to me is that Rick Warren is, or is trying to pass himself off as, reformed

More seriously, I hear a lot of complaints about Rick Warren, mostly about him not being decisive enough in his declaration of the gospel... I freely admit that I know virtually nothing about what he actually teaches or believes, but that I'm generally annoyed by the way in which he takes up causes as though they didn't exist before he discovered them and made them famous... However, I must also say that amidst all the decrying of Warren.. I rarely ever hear specific cases of what he is teaching that is wrong.

 

[AudioArtist]

I was just going through my Twitter and noticed these two from Pastor Rick just two days ago:

"Never retaliate when people say unkind things about you.Pay them back with a blessing..& God willl BLESS YOU!"1 Pet.3:9
web • 6/4/11 7:22 PM

Leaders are self-critical. Losers are critical of others.
Dragon Dictation • 6/4/11 1:45 PM

Anyone else see the irony?

Man...I appreciate your responses to me in this thread (and the pharisees hunter/heresy hunter thread). And I can see some irony/inconsistency in these two twitter posts. But really; if anyone's words, or my words, were combed as finely as this, I'd fear for how I turned out! This keen searching for errors or possible trip-ups in another's words is not what I would call a Berean approach! His basic point, as you no doubt know, is that it's better to worry about one's own log or issues and be critical of self than to be critical of others. Yes, the "losers are critical of others" bit wasn't a necessary addition at all, but really... This scanning to find every possible inconsistency in another's teachings is very strange, and anyone could be rendered a false teacher under such a methodology.

But I'm not actually a fan of Rick Warren's, and haven't read The Purpose Driven Life. From what I've seen of him, I don't like his style. Yet I'm suspicious of how he's become the new whipping boy, and I do think God is using him despite all his intellectual flaws and his fear of men. I trust John Piper's discernment over his critics, I guess.

By the way, I recently discovered that Mark Driscoll, J.I Packer and now, of course, John Piper are also false teachers according to most of these same websites.

 

[Faulty]

Man...I appreciate your responses to me in this thread (and the pharisees hunter/heresy hunter thread). And I can see some irony/inconsistency in these two twitter posts. But really; if anyone's words, or my words, were combed as finely as this, I'd fear for how I turned out! This keen searching for errors or possible trip-ups in another's words is not what I would call a Berean approach! His basic point, as you no doubt know, is that it's better to worry about one's own log or issues and be critical of self than to be critical of others. Yes, the "losers are critical of others" bit wasn't a necessary addition at all, but really... This scanning to find every possible inconsistency in another's teachings is very strange, and anyone could be rendered a false teacher under such a methodology.

But I'm not actually a fan of Rick Warren's, and haven't read The Purpose Driven Life. From what I've seen of him, I don't like his style. Yet I'm suspicious of how he's become the new whipping boy, and I do think God is using him despite all his intellectual flaws and his fear of men. I trust John Piper's discernment over his critics, I guess.

By the way, I recently discovered that Mark Driscoll, J.I Packer and now, of course, John Piper are also false teachers according to most of these same websites.

You have to decide for yourself who is a false teacher or not. Just two nights ago, I sat with my wife and pointed out biblical examples of false teachers and incorrect teachers (she asked me to do so), and contrasted the two. She was confronting some things online which didn't seem to know the difference.

If you want to know if someone is a false teacher or not, I fully recommend following them around for a while, hearing and reading what they teach, until you understand their core and motives and techniques, and always question what your teachers say in that whenever they cite a scripture to make a point, stop, read that passage in context of the scripture it's placed in, and then determine if that passage lines up to the way the teacher is handling the verse. If he's not handling the word correctly, throw it out. You'd be amazed how much garbage you get rid of that way.


I just thought it was ironic that I'd open my Twitter account last night, and right there were those two from Rick Warren and how he could have just two contrasting thoughts together like that. Unfortunately, anyone who's been following his Twitters for any length of time knows he does frequently attack his critics with insults (like calling them losers). So, he gives and he gets.

I do keep an eye on the man though, considering how influential he is, the protestant pope if you will, considering he's the pastor for many other pastors (which technically makes him a bishop I think). But I do recall my wife receiving his book from a friend a few years ago and started to read it, then I picked it up, read through some of it and told my wife that stuff in there isn't even christian, it's self-help in god-wrapping, then eventually threw the book away.

I've heard from a number of people, friends and critics alike, who know the man personally, and from what I understand he's a very friendly and likeable fellow, and I believe it. But I'm also familiar with what he teaches, his techniques of manipulating biblical texts to fit preconceived points, and his recent overt introduction of mysticism into his home church, and by extension, all those who trust him for who he is.

Just follow the man around a while and you'll see him talk out of both sides of his mouth. He's a true politician in full campaign mode. I thought this was rather accurate: "Rick Warren - The Ecumenical Chameleon" Cartoon - ... on Twitpic

He's not the only religious guy I follow on Twitter. I also follow John MacArthur, Todd Bentley, William Koenig, Jan Markell, Ken Silva, etc...

Steve Martin (SteveMartinToGo) is usually quite comical in his tweets as well.

 

[probinson]

If you want to know if someone is a false teacher or not, I fully recommend following them around for a while, hearing and reading what they teach, until you understand their core and motives and techniques, ....

This might be the worst advice ever.

Why in the world would you suggest that someone expend so much energy following after a false teacher? Jesus never said anything remotely resembling, "Find someone you think is a false teacher and follow them around so you can prove how false they are." In fact, your recommendation seems directly opposed to Jesus' statement, "The voice of a stranger they will not follow."

Along these same lines, I once had another poster tell me that we needed to become familiar with all of the voices in the world so that we could recognize the voice of God more clearly. But that's just silly. That's like suggesting I should spend all my time listening to other women's voices so that I can learn what my wife's voice sounds like better. To the contrary, if I waste all kinds of time and energy apart from my wife, instead listening to these other women's voices, it will become far more difficult to recognize her voice.

The bottom line is, the more time you spend apart from the Truth in pursuit of false teachers for any reason, the harder it will be for you to recognize the Truth.

 

[geetrue]

Today's false prophets or false preachers can be easier to deal with than the ones of old ...

Just go click ...

How do ya'll stay up to date on this Rick Warren?

I don't see him on TBN or any of the other seven or eight so called christian/inspirational channels.

 

[Faulty]

This might be the worst advice ever.

Why in the world would you suggest that someone expend so much energy following after a false teacher? Jesus never said anything remotely resembling, "Find someone you think is a false teacher and follow them around so you can prove how false they are." In fact, your recommendation seems directly opposed to Jesus' statement, "The voice of a stranger they will not follow."

That's 'follow' as in being their student or disciple, not just listening to what they say. Didn't Jesus also say to the people of the Pharisees "to practice and observe what they tell you - but not what they do"? (Mt 23:3)

If I want to know what a politician thinks, I listen to his speeches. If I want to know what an author or columnist has to say, I read their words, but I'm not their disciple.

If I want to know what a teacher teaches, or a preacher preaches, I listen to their words, I read their books. How would you know what someone teaches and preaches, if you don't hear and see to what they teach and preach?

Following them around to learn of them, does not mean submitting to them as your authority in these matters.

 

[probinson]

If I want to know what a teacher teaches, or a preacher preaches, I listen to their words, I read their books. How would you know what someone teaches and preaches, if you don't hear and see to what they teach and preach?

But you've already decided that what they preach is wrong. So why keep following them?

It's your prerogative, and you can obviously do whatever you want, but I think it's remarkably foolish and an incredible waste of time and energy to follow around someone you've already determined you disagree with.

 

[Yitzchak]

I recommend people watch his interview with John Piper in its entirety for themselves:

John Piper Interviews Rick Warren onÂ[bless and do not curse]Doctrine - Desiring God

Thank you for the link. I am listening to it now. So far , he has spoken about social issues. He also made the comment that Jonathan Edwards was smarter than Einstein and he has read a 22 volume set of Jonathan Edwards which helped to shape his thinking. He also talks about his Baptist Heritage.

John Piper does the " I'm paying attention and hanging on every word " look rather well.

I actually see his point when he discusses his hermeneutics which does not require that he correlate every verse. I find it refreshing for a Christian to admit that he contradicts himself. He assigns it to his limited human understanding of God's word. He states straight out that God does not contradict , but that there are apparent contradictions because of our limited human understanding. I actually agree with that. I actually get a little tired of the dishonesty of Christians who hold the position that they have it all figured out and are now going to correct everyone else.

He contrasts conjunctive thinking which is simply using the conjunction and rather then either or which would be called disjunctive thinking.
An example would be your mother tells you to go to the store and pick up some milk. Then she adds and also stop by your uncle's house and give him this letter. In other words both can be true. As opposed to either or thinking which says if one is true then the other is not. The either or accuses of a contradiction. Do you want me to go to uncle's house or to the store.

Of course he acknowledges that there are occasions for both types of thinking in life. It is just a fancy way of saying that he does not feel like it is crucial to have a systematic theology which ties up all of the loose ends. He asserts that a lot of scripture is conjunctive in the sense that both are true and it only seems to contradict to our limited minds.

Some examples of conjunctive thinking in the scripture are grace versus justice. Love versus a judgment which sends people to hell. Being saved by faith versus being told that without works your faith is useless.The trinity. God is one and three. Jesus was both God and man.


His discussion of imputed versus imparted righteousness seems to be a Calvinist position. He states that he believes in repentance and in a person being changed. He believes that good behavior is the fruit of repentance. he says that changed behavior does not save you. But rather then because you are saved , your behavior changes.

He teaches a literal hell. He tells the story of a Jewish woman who confronted him and asked if she does not believe in Jesus , will she go to hell. He is clear that Jesus is the only way to Heaven.

He also is clear that he believes in the Bible.


I am not seeing the problem here.