Rich vs poor and the cost of living

[Almighty's humble servant]

i am making a post based off some statistics I heard on 3 radio programs I listen to. I leave their names blank b/c I don't want to bias one side or the other in this debate.

Being that most Church going Christians in America identify themselves as upper middle to upper lower class I've asked a few at my new home church how they felt about tax reform since it is a key issue in the coming election.

Quickly the subject from the more well to do evangelicals turned to entitlement spending and their opinion that a man can not reap what he does not sow. And a few of the lower to lower middle class respondents seemed to change the subject to the abortion and gay marriage debate.

It seemed the 6 folks I talked to about it were dead set against Obama's reelection for various reasons. Although the evidence I gave showed that President Obama was merely being held hostage to the debt which is rising daily due to the Bush tax cuts. They pointed to Reagan yrs and the prosperity they enjoyed, but I quickly countered that the tax rates across the board were something in the neighborhood of 14% higher during such period.
But for any brothers or sisters who see the deficit and enititlement spending as a focus I'd like to point something out to you. Rich, poor or middle, these numbers mean something.

A family of 6 which earns 35K/yr spends roughly 16% in their income in taxes after receiving EICs and CTC.

A family of 2, earning 25 million/yr on capital gains spends roughly 20% on their income in taxes, while the working man earning the same was about 33%.
Now, a family of 6 earning 20K or less, considering home ownership, spends nearly 19% of their income on taxes.

You see....whether your rich or poor, toilet paper and washing powder and crayons are all taxed at the same rate. Let's not lie anymore and say the poor pay zero in tax. They pay plenty, and in many cases, far more than their fair share.

 

[WilliamB]

Good post! Unfortunately there will always be those who just don't care about the poor, elderly or preserving a middle class and will say anything to avoid paying their fair share. Christian values apparently are null and void when this topic comes up. Guess this is why Christ said it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to go to heaven.

The thing that really amazes me is that as smart as some of these people are supposed to be, how do they not realize that by strengthening the poor and middle class, the rich make more money in the long run. Trickle down doesn't work, we tried that and look what that go us. I think Obama's right on this. Wealth grows from the bottom up and from the middle class, out.

At least one person in the race for POTUS has a clue. So there is hope! Time for them to pay up and fixing the tax code is the right thing for all Americans.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

Good post! Unfortunately there will always be those who just don't care about the poor, elderly or preserving a middle class and will say anything to avoid paying their fair share. Christian values apparently are null and void when this topic comes up. Guess this is why Christ said it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to go to heaven.

The thing that really amazes me is that as smart as some of these people are supposed to be, how do they not realize that by strengthening the poor and middle class, the rich make more money in the long run. Trickle down doesn't work, we tried that and look what that go us. I think Obama's right on this. Wealth grows from the bottom up and from the middle class, out.

At least one person in the race for POTUS has a clue. So there is hope! Time for them to pay up and fixing the tax code is the right thing for all Americans.

When my wife and I got our $300 tax checks a month or so after our refund came in we were ecstatic. We thought we'd hit the lottery with that 600 extra in expendable income.
Of course we've gotten that much more each yr since, but seems like less and less of it's expendable these days since weve got to go to the CCs throughout the tougher times and then use our refund to pay them down.

It's like a never ending cycle. Sad thing is I work 40-50 hr/wk and my wife works now too, 32-40hrs a wk and we're struggling worse now than when Bush took officeand I was earning 28K.

 

[WilliamB]

When my wife and I got our $300 tax checks a month or so after our refund came in we were ecstatic. We thought we'd hit the lottery with that 600 extra in expendable income.
Of course we've gotten that much more each yr since, but seems like less and less of it's expendable these days since weve got to go to the CCs throughout the tougher times and then use our refund to pay them down.

It's like a never ending cycle. Sad thing is I work 40-50 hr/wk and my wife works now too, 32-40hrs a wk and we're struggling worse now than when Bush took officeand I was earning 28K.

Truth is, that's how american capitalism is designed. Pay us just enough to stay broke. This keeps us at the same jobs, if possible, and stuck for ever as slaves to interest. Once upon a time, america was smart(er). Every US dollar was backed by the equivalent in gold. Our own government has abandoned that model and they too are stuck in the vicious cycle of credit, debit, interest. I don't want to take your post off track but I said in another thread, this "capitalism" we have is not sustainable. It's a house of cards, ready to collapse at any time.

I guess the one silver lining is regular folks like you and I, if we can get out from under these CC's and other interest accumulating debts, will be able to weather the storm better than most, when the time comes. My wife and I have paid cash for everything since 2009 and I gotta tell you, it's lovely. Yeah we gotta wait on some things, instead of just charging it but in the long run, theres no price you can put on piece of mind.

It's those that can't get out from under this cycle or simply don't make enough to live more than check to check that are in the most danger. One bad patch and everything can fall apart. That's why we need policy makers that not only care about these folks but are smart enough to implant policies that help lift people out of these situations, not just give them enough to survive in it.

 

[Lovely Lane]

Those who haven't anything to sow can't even think about reaping.
The game is rigged in favor of the wealthy via our elected officials in DC.

Then on Monday, the Government Accountability Office publicly released a study showing that, as of the end of fiscal year 2010, roughly $330 billion in federal taxes had never been paid -- an amount that, if collected, would represent nearly nine times the amount of savings as the budget itself.
IRS Funding Cut Days Before Report Shows $330 Billion In Uncollected Taxes

 

[Lovely Lane]

I'm not exactly sure who this speaker is but he has a couple good ideas concerning tax talk.
grayeagle48 recommended it in another thread.
Interview with Romney pushes Mark Larsen to support Ron Paul - YouTube

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

I'm not exactly sure who this speaker is but he has a couple good ideas concerning tax talk.
grayeagle48 recommended it in another thread.
Interview with Romney pushes Mark Larsen to support Ron Paul - YouTube

That guy was clearly trying to set Romney up and was certainly a Ron Paul supporter prior to the call, but Mitt took the high road and admitted that the current tax code and the loopholes within it are the largest part of of deficit problem.

However, being the working poor pay a lions share of their income in regional, state and sales taxes, ntm property taxes......I think I like the idea of a %1 flat tax, at least for me and mine.

 

[WilliamB]

Those who haven't anything to sow can't even think about reaping.
The game is rigged in favor of the wealthy via our elected officials in DC.

This is unreal!

"Despite evidence that a single dollar spent on enforcing the tax code could result in up to ten dollars in revenue, politicians, naturally, are reluctant to align themselves with tax collectors."

I don't even know what to say. $330 billion dollars and all we hear is cuts to entitlements. We should just fire everyone in congress and start over.

 

[WilliamB]

That guy was clearly trying to set Romney up and was certainly a Ron Paul supporter prior to the call, but Mitt took the high road and admitted that the current tax code and the loopholes within it are the largest part of of deficit problem.

However, being the working poor pay a lions share of their income in regional, state and sales taxes, ntm property taxes......I think I like the idea of a %1 flat tax, at least for me and mine.

No doubt, I heard this earlier from another thread. It sounds good but would it actually work? That's the real question. Sounds kinda gimmicky like 9-9-9.

 

[Lovely Lane]

This is unreal!

"Despite evidence that a single dollar spent on enforcing the tax code could result in up to ten dollars in revenue, politicians, naturally, are reluctant to align themselves with tax collectors."

I don't even know what to say. $330 billion dollars and all we hear is cuts to entitlements. We should just fire everyone in congress and start over.

I agree with that, plus run the lobbyist off.

 

[ptomwebster]

Ron Paul is an empty suit.

 

[WilliamB]

I agree with that, plus run the lobbyist off.

Yeah, them too.

 

[Lovely Lane]

That guy was clearly trying to set Romney up and was certainly a Ron Paul supporter prior to the call, but Mitt took the high road and admitted that the current tax code and the loopholes within it are the largest part of of deficit problem.

However, being the working poor pay a lions share of their income in regional, state and sales taxes, ntm property taxes......I think I like the idea of a %1 flat tax, at least for me and mine.

I think you are right on that set-up ambush idea. Yes, good point, the loopholes and inability to collect all revenue owed. The 1% sales tax isn't something I know much about, but wonder why Congress doesn't take 15% from those who receive capital gains like they take income tax from every ones paycheck.

 

[Lovely Lane]

Ron Paul is an empty suit.

There is a long list of empty suits in Congress, don't just pick one. Class Conflict is by design, and all legislators are motivated to perpetuate the class struggle. my thought.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

I think you are right on that set-up ambush idea. Yes, good point, the loopholes and inability to collect all revenue owed. The 1% sales tax isn't something I know much about, but wonder why Congress doesn't take 15% from those who receive capital gains like they take income tax from every ones paycheck.

B/C they seem to be artificially bolstering the US stock market and floating drowning banks.
If the rich/uppermiddle did not continuously roll over their investments, then the govt could get their hands on it, but the broken code allows for these guys to just continuously reinvest and lobby for lower rates or bigger loopholes soas they can pull the lions share of thier money out in one swoop.

Kindof like in 07 when it became obvious a conservative had almost no chance of winning the white house. So, in a panic to pull out before a liberal came in and enforced the laws or closed the gaps, they about sank the entire economy. More than 700 US banks had to turn customers away emptied handed that first week until the FDIC shored them up while they were being absorbed into bigger banks. It's that kindof coordinated pullout that controls our govt.
It's either allow them their breaks and incentives.....or they sink our economy. Of course when Obama was elected we thought he was strong enough to stand up to these types, but it appears he's waiting until his second term maybe. IDK....Im not for socialism, but we might need to take a few yrs off away from fascism.

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

There is a long list of empty suits in Congress, don't just pick one. Class Conflict is by design, and all legislators are motivated to perpetuate the class struggle. my thought.

I agree.....and Ron Paul for all his faults is about the least empty suit there is in American politics. Him and Ralph Nader are like super citizens, seriously campaigning for change.
Too little too late though.....Now they're both old and don't seem to have a decent understudy yet either. And no conservatives jumping in with Rand either....he's a far right fascist type...he'd sell the white house to any bankster who bid the highest.

That Denis Kucinich up in Oh seems pretty genuine too. And that Republican Gov from New Mexico....Johnson I thinks his name.

 

[Living in the Light]

My source of supply comes from God, not from employers, government handouts, special tax breaks, or from generosity of others. Of course, I have to put my best foot forward and work with God to bring abundance to fruition. God provides the opportunities, we have to do the work. Try living on $1500 a month; not easy, but I'm happy.

 

[Lovely Lane]

I had to listen to that video again, in the very first minute or so, Mark Larson paid negative taxes in 2000, in being a Landlord.

And when many ask for the wealthy to pay a fair share it's like being un-American. When millions of workers by law automatically pay income tax each time they receive a pay check, the wealthy and corporations have different rules that favors them.

 

[Lovely Lane]

I agree.....and Ron Paul for all his faults is about the least empty suit there is in American politics. Him and Ralph Nader are like super citizens, seriously campaigning for change.
Too little too late though.....Now they're both old and don't seem to have a decent understudy yet either. And no conservatives jumping in with Rand either....he's a far right fascist type...he'd sell the white house to any bankster who bid the highest.

That Denis Kucinich up in Oh seems pretty genuine too. And that Republican Gov from New Mexico....Johnson I thinks his name.

I agree with that, Paul stays on message for many years now. If you compared his constant message to Romney's one would have to ask which Romney.

Ralph Nader, I haven't heard that name in a while. I like that guy.

 

[Lovely Lane]

B/C they seem to be artificially bolstering the US stock market and floating drowning banks.
If the rich/uppermiddle did not continuously roll over their investments, then the govt could get their hands on it, but the broken code allows for these guys to just continuously reinvest and lobby for lower rates or bigger loopholes soas they can pull the lions share of thier money out in one swoop.

Kindof like in 07 when it became obvious a conservative had almost no chance of winning the white house. So, in a panic to pull out before a liberal came in and enforced the laws or closed the gaps, they about sank the entire economy. More than 700 US banks had to turn customers away emptied handed that first week until the FDIC shored them up while they were being absorbed into bigger banks. It's that kindof coordinated pullout that controls our govt.
It's either allow them their breaks and incentives.....or they sink our economy. Of course when Obama was elected we thought he was strong enough to stand up to these types, but it appears he's waiting until his second term maybe. IDK....Im not for socialism, but we might need to take a few yrs off away from fascism.

I like Obama, much better than Romney and what Romney stands for, my thought.
No, I'm not for a socialist government, but am for government support of a social safety net, and in having all citizens pay the same % in tax.