Revenge of the Protected Class

NightHawkeye

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From the “I’m not trying to discredit you; you’re discrediting yourself”, files: Revenge of the Protected Class

The intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking.

Exhibit A is Rep. Adam Schiff, the maestro of all things Russian. When President Trump was being investigated, having information from Russia was considered top-of-the-line evidence ... almost all of the damaging claims in the infamous “Steele dossier” were supplied to a Brit by Russians.

But now that Joe Biden’s behavior has come under (grudging and belated) scrutiny, the mere possibility of information originating in Russia is a get-out-of-jail-free card ... just lie and say the information came from Russia. The “watchdogs” in the media shriek and run the other way.
...
Peggy Noonan wrote about the unexpected success of Donald Trump in February 2016 in a column titled “Donald Trump and the Rise of the Unprotected.”
...
“There are the protected and the unprotected,” Noonan declared. “The protected make public policy. The unprotected live in it.”
...
Biden confessed early in 2017 — on camera — that he had used American foreign policy to extort the president of Ukraine into firing a prosecutor who was investigating Burisma Holdings, the energy company on whose board Joe’s son Hunter served.
...
Biden has repeatedly denied that he knew anything about his son’s foreign business deals ... But the hard drive that was seized by the FBI in December 2019 contains evidence that Joe not only knew about Hunter’s business deals, but also was a partner in some of them.

No problem, say the arbiters of truth at Twitter, Facebook and the mainstream media. Those incriminating emails are “unverified” or “unconfirmed.” Wikipedia dismisses the entire Biden corruption scheme as a “conspiracy theory” based on a “series of unevidenced claims” that are centered on “the false allegation” that (you guessed it) Biden is corrupt. In other words, Joe Biden is an untouchable. No matter what evidence exists, the media and the power brokers who run things will declare him exempt from consequences.
...
This is so dishonest that it is depressing. By “instability,” Todd means that the president doesn’t play by the rules of the Washington establishment. By “lack of credibility,” he means that the mainstream media hates Trump because he is an effective conservative. By “unverified,” he means that although independent sources have confirmed the authenticity of Hunter’s emails and have confirmed that Joe Biden was a partner in Hunter’s corrupt schemes, NBC and the rest of the mainstream media refuse to get off their butts and find out the truth for themselves.

Lesley Stahl, in her now infamous Trump interview for “60 Minutes,” actually said she would not cover the Biden corruption scandal because it is not verified. She also told Trump that she had no idea that his campaign had been spied upon by the Obama administration. That means she is either a blithering idiot or a liar. When Trump challenged her for her obvious bias, she said, “You’re trying to discredit me.”

In a retort that sums up the whole filthy mess, Trump said, “I’m not trying to discredit you; you’re discrediting yourself.”

If Joe Biden wins the election on Nov. 3, it will signal that the protected have won the war — that they will remain exempt from consequences for not just the next four years, but for the foreseeable future
.​
 

Yttrium

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If Joe Biden wins the election on Nov. 3, it will signal that the protected have won the war — that they will remain exempt from consequences for not just the next four years, but for the foreseeable future.​

Or it will be a sign that the majority of Americans aren't buying the dumb conspiracy theories.
 
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Yttrium

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... or that they are. Russia! Russia! Russia!

You'd like to justify dumb conspiracy theories with a dumb conspiracy theory? Two dumb conspiracy theories don't make an intelligent conspiracy theory. They just make everybody more dumb.
 
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NightHawkeye

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You'd like to justify dumb conspiracy theories with a dumb conspiracy theory? Two dumb conspiracy theories don't make an intelligent conspiracy theory. They just make everybody more dumb.
Not my conspiracy theories.

Do you know who keeps saying, Russia, Russia, Russia?
 
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Yttrium

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Not my conspiracy theories.

Do you know who keeps saying, Russia, Russia, Russia?

Of course I do. You're basically saying "the Democrats did it, so let's do it too!" You're trying to justify new dumb conspiracy theories with an old one.

Then there are all the other whacky conspiracy theories Trump comes up with. I hate conspiracy theories, so it's been a depressing four years for me.
 
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SimplyMe

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From the “I’m not trying to discredit you; you’re discrediting yourself”, files: Revenge of the Protected Class

The intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking.

It is, just not by the people the article is claiming are dishonest.

Exhibit A is Rep. Adam Schiff, the maestro of all things Russian. When President Trump was being investigated, having information from Russia was considered top-of-the-line evidence ... almost all of the damaging claims in the infamous “Steele dossier” were supplied to a Brit by Russians.

There is a large difference between information from Russian sources and ones that are direct from Russian Intelligence. Yes, the "Steele dossier" was from Russian sources -- and some of the items may have been from Russian Intelligence. However, key parts, such as that the Trump campaign was working with Russia were given substance by other sources -- such as our allies Intelligence services. As a general rule, other than some political "blowhards" (which happens on both sides), no one was claiming that the Steele dossier was 100% authentic.

And in an area where there is Republican dishonesty, yes, the FBI used the Steele dossier as evidence to get warrants on various Trump campaign members -- yet it was not the sole, or even an important piece of evidence (as some try to claim). Instead, it is the intelligence we were getting from our allies that provided the bulk of the evidence. More to the point, most of what the Steele report claimed about the Trump campaign working with Russia turned out to be true -- just no connection with Pres. Trump was ever shown.

But now that Joe Biden’s behavior has come under (grudging and belated) scrutiny, the mere possibility of information originating in Russia is a get-out-of-jail-free card ... just lie and say the information came from Russia. The “watchdogs” in the media shriek and run the other way.

No, the issue here is that there were too many Red Flags -- in fact there still are. First, the FBI has had the laptop(s) for almost a year -- they even got the subpeona from a Grand Jury -- and there have been no known charges filed (which is the purpose of the Grand Jury, to return indictments). I say "no known charges" because it is possible there have been some indictments handed down, just not against the Bidens that have little to do with the laptops; we don't know since Grand Jury proceedings are sealed, just that we know that neither Biden is currently under federal indictment, nor are they expected to be.

We have reports that Fox News turned down this information and would not go with it, the staff writers at the New York Post who wrote the article would not attach their name to the article, that they had serious questions about the veracity of what they were told -- particularly as it came just before the election from Pres. Trump's lawyer. Instead, apparently one of the writers, whose name was put on the article, was not aware of that fact until after the story had been published, and had not worked on the story at all.

We further know the Wall Street Journal was being pushed by the Trump administration to publish the article first -- that the administration wanted the WSJ to publish the article because of their reputation. Instead, the WSJ ended up not publishing and have actually, instead, claimed that the evidence does not show any connection to Joe Biden.

Many of the "facts" claimed by the article have not been corroborated by any other sources, to the point that reputable right wing sources still have their own doubts (like the Wall Street Journal) about the truth of the story.

...
Peggy Noonan wrote about the unexpected success of Donald Trump in February 2016 in a column titled “Donald Trump and the Rise of the Unprotected.”
...
“There are the protected and the unprotected,” Noonan declared. “The protected make public policy. The unprotected live in it.”
...
Biden confessed early in 2017 — on camera — that he had used American foreign policy to extort the president of Ukraine into firing a prosecutor who was investigating Burisma Holdings, the energy company on whose board Joe’s son Hunter served.

Except the actual evidence shows that VP Biden was sent on behalf of the US government in a measure that was supported by the US Government (including Republicans), our allies, etc. because the prosecutor was not investigating Burisma.

The evidence clearly shows it was not to benefit Burisma or his son (who wasn't charged with anything) -- in anything, it was to restart prosecution of Burisma, or more specifically the oligarch that owns Burisma.

...
Biden has repeatedly denied that he knew anything about his son’s foreign business deals ... But the hard drive that was seized by the FBI in December 2019 contains evidence that Joe not only knew about Hunter’s business deals, but also was a partner in some of them.

Except again, even Right Wing sources like the Wall Street Journal claims this is false. In fact, in the article linked above, it was the Trump administration trying to "sell" this story -- using
Anthony Bobulinski. This was all prior to the NY Post story. Apparently Giuliani got tired of the WSJ trying to fact check and started shopping the article around (such as to Fox, which we know turned him down) with the NY Post being the one willing to publish it. In the meantime, the WSJ, after reviewing the corporate records given them by Bobulinski -- show that Joe Biden was not involved in any way.

Their is a key difference in the two claims presented in your editorial. There was evidence for "Russian collusion" -- that their has been no evidence Trump was involved does not mean no one else in the campaign was. An easy example is Manafort, as campaign chair, giving Trump campaign polling data to the Russians, or Stone working with Wikileaks on how to leak the information that had been hacked by the Russians. There are people from the Trump campaign in jail for their wrongdoing in this case.

On the other side, there is still no real evidence against Biden. Yes, there are some ugly things on the laptop -- assuming they are true, which still has not been established -- but those point to Hunter and not any wrongdoing by Joe. Yes, there was a "witness" who accussed Joe based on some of the emails, but the WSJ after looking at his records found the opposite -- there was no involvement by Joe Biden.

Last, again, we had multiple sources, typically allied governments, giving reports about the Trump campaigns dealings with Russia, not just the Steele dossier. With this laptop there has been nothing to support the claims -- instead, all the claims seem to come from people associated with Donald Trump.

No problem, say the arbiters of truth at Twitter, Facebook and the mainstream media. Those incriminating emails are “unverified” or “unconfirmed.” Wikipedia dismisses the entire Biden corruption scheme as a “conspiracy theory” based on a “series of unevidenced claims” that are centered on “the false allegation” that (you guessed it) Biden is corrupt. In other words, Joe Biden is an untouchable. No matter what evidence exists, the media and the power brokers who run things will declare him exempt from consequences.
..
This is so dishonest that it is depressing. By “instability,” Todd means that the president doesn’t play by the rules of the Washington establishment. By “lack of credibility,” he means that the mainstream media hates Trump because he is an effective conservative. By “unverified,” he means that although independent sources have confirmed the authenticity of Hunter’s emails and have confirmed that Joe Biden was a partner in Hunter’s corrupt schemes, NBC and the rest of the mainstream media refuse to get off their butts and find out the truth for themselves.

Lesley Stahl, in her now infamous Trump interview for “60 Minutes,” actually said she would not cover the Biden corruption scandal because it is not verified. She also told Trump that she had no idea that his campaign had been spied upon by the Obama administration. That means she is either a blithering idiot or a liar. When Trump challenged her for her obvious bias, she said, “You’re trying to discredit me.”

While I'm guessing you won't accept this, the Obama administration did not spy on the Trump campaign. The FBI did -- legally -- get warrants against some in the Trump campaign because of their alleged contact with Russian agents -- and not based (at least primarily) on the Steele dossier). Yes, the Obama administration did keep track of the investigation to try and ensure the integrity of the election was maintained. All evidence I've seen is that the Obama administration did not seek knowledge about the Trump campaign, nor did they in any way try to direct the investigation. At most, they did seek out information on particular events, such as unmasking who had talked to the Russian ambassador about sanctions, which turned out to be Flynn, since that directly impacted the ability of the President to direct US Foreign Policy.

And, again, very little has been verified about Hunter's laptops, and there is still no real evidence that Joe Biden was in any way involved in Hunter's businesses, or knew about his business dealings. Instead, everything keeps coming back to the Trump administration and the Trump campaign.

Again, the two stories are nowhere close to the same.

In a retort that sums up the whole filthy mess, Trump said, “I’m not trying to discredit you; you’re discrediting yourself.”
If Joe Biden wins the election on Nov. 3, it will signal that the protected have won the war — that they will remain exempt from consequences for not just the next four years, but for the foreseeable future

Sorry, but no.
 
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Triumvirate

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You'd like to justify dumb conspiracy theories with a dumb conspiracy theory? Two dumb conspiracy theories don't make an intelligent conspiracy theory. They just make everybody more dumb.

The Hunter Biden case is a failed counterargument to impeachment that failed at the time, which is now stupidly being repeated with even less evidence.

The investigation into Russia connection turned up a lot, that the Republican party (law and order, Christian values and all that nonsense) failed to investigate further.

Let's dispense with the false equivalence, please.
 
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Yttrium

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The Hunter Biden case is a failed counterargument to impeachment that failed at the time, which is now stupidly being repeated with even less evidence.

The investigation into Russia connection turned up a lot, that the Republican party (law and order, Christian values and all that nonsense) failed to investigate further.

Let's dispense with the false equivalence, please.

Did anything turn up that showed that Trump was illegally colluding with the Russians to affect the 2016 election? No. I can call it a dumb conspiracy theory if I wanna.

I mean, it's not nearly as dumb as what the Republicans are working with these days, so they're hardly equivalent, but they're still both dumb conspiracy theories in my book.
 
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Triumvirate

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Did anything turn up that showed that Trump was illegally colluding with the Russians to affect the 2016 election? No. I can call it a dumb conspiracy theory if I wanna.

No, it recommended prosecution for obstruction of justice, which is hardly nothing. And while there's nothing there that crossed the line on collusion, there's a lot of pretty questionable connections there nonetheless.
 
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Yttrium

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No, it recommended prosecution for obstruction of justice, which is hardly nothing. And while there's nothing there that crossed the line on collusion, there's a lot of pretty questionable connections there nonetheless.

Questionable connections are the life blood of conspiracy theories. Send the questionable connections to the investigators and investigative reporters and let them decide if there's anything to them. If not, move on.
 
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Triumvirate

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Questionable connections are the life blood of conspiracy theories. Send the questionable connections to the investigators and investigative reporters and let them decide if there's anything to them. If not, move on.

That would be great - problem is the GOP or President Manchild keep stalling on a lot of them. So it's hardly a conspiracy theory. It's an open question.
 
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Yttrium

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That would be great - problem is the GOP or President Manchild keep stalling on a lot of them. So it's hardly a conspiracy theory. It's an open question.

Sorry, unless something is substantiated, it remains a conspiracy theory.
 
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That's an impracticably broad and nonstandard definition of the term

Ah. Well, yes, if you're looking at the sentence by itself. I was hoping for the statement to be taken in context. I think we're going off topic, though. Can we just agree that Hunter Biden stuff is a dumb conspiracy theory that cannot be justified by any other conspiracy theories that may or may not have come before it?
 
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Fantine

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From the “I’m not trying to discredit you; you’re discrediting yourself”, files: Revenge of the Protected Class

The intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking.

Exhibit A is Rep. Adam Schiff, the maestro of all things Russian. When President Trump was being investigated, having information from Russia was considered top-of-the-line evidence ... almost all of the damaging claims in the infamous “Steele dossier” were supplied to a Brit by Russians.

But now that Joe Biden’s behavior has come under (grudging and belated) scrutiny, the mere possibility of information originating in Russia is a get-out-of-jail-free card ... just lie and say the information came from Russia. The “watchdogs” in the media shriek and run the other way.
...
Peggy Noonan wrote about the unexpected success of Donald Trump in February 2016 in a column titled “Donald Trump and the Rise of the Unprotected.”
...
“There are the protected and the unprotected,” Noonan declared. “The protected make public policy. The unprotected live in it.”
...
Biden confessed early in 2017 — on camera — that he had used American foreign policy to extort the president of Ukraine into firing a prosecutor who was investigating Burisma Holdings, the energy company on whose board Joe’s son Hunter served.
...
Biden has repeatedly denied that he knew anything about his son’s foreign business deals ... But the hard drive that was seized by the FBI in December 2019 contains evidence that Joe not only knew about Hunter’s business deals, but also was a partner in some of them.

No problem, say the arbiters of truth at Twitter, Facebook and the mainstream media. Those incriminating emails are “unverified” or “unconfirmed.” Wikipedia dismisses the entire Biden corruption scheme as a “conspiracy theory” based on a “series of unevidenced claims” that are centered on “the false allegation” that (you guessed it) Biden is corrupt. In other words, Joe Biden is an untouchable. No matter what evidence exists, the media and the power brokers who run things will declare him exempt from consequences.
...
This is so dishonest that it is depressing. By “instability,” Todd means that the president doesn’t play by the rules of the Washington establishment. By “lack of credibility,” he means that the mainstream media hates Trump because he is an effective conservative. By “unverified,” he means that although independent sources have confirmed the authenticity of Hunter’s emails and have confirmed that Joe Biden was a partner in Hunter’s corrupt schemes, NBC and the rest of the mainstream media refuse to get off their butts and find out the truth for themselves.

Lesley Stahl, in her now infamous Trump interview for “60 Minutes,” actually said she would not cover the Biden corruption scandal because it is not verified. She also told Trump that she had no idea that his campaign had been spied upon by the Obama administration. That means she is either a blithering idiot or a liar. When Trump challenged her for her obvious bias, she said, “You’re trying to discredit me.”

In a retort that sums up the whole filthy mess, Trump said, “I’m not trying to discredit you; you’re discrediting yourself.”

If Joe Biden wins the election on Nov. 3, it will signal that the protected have won the war — that they will remain exempt from consequences for not just the next four years, but for the foreseeable future
.​
It's bed time. Thanks for the "grim" fairy tale.
I prefer non-fiction.
 
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lasthero

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If Joe Biden wins the election on Nov. 3, it will signal that the protected have won the war — that they will remain exempt from consequences for not just the next four years, but for the foreseeable future.

Let me ask you a question - do you honestly believe that Obama, Clinton, Biden or any of the people in this protected class are going to see a single day in jail for the crimes that Trump keeps accusing them of? If so, why do you believe that?

It seems, to me, that a lot of Trump fans have this idea that Trump is going to arrest all of these evil doers that they're so sure are ruining the company and engaging in criminal activity, but to the best of my knowledge, he hasn't done anything like that. If he hasn't done it in the first four years, what makes you think he'll do it in the next four?
 
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